The VGC 2011 Rules, Biggest Gaming Mistake Ever?

happyam said:
If you ever play any competitive game, especially TCG like Magic, YuGiOh, Pokemon. You would know that they are always changing. Either they rotate our sets every 3-6 months, or they change the banned list. This encourge player to be creative and keep the game alive. Who would want to use the same card / deck / Pokemon team every time ?
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You have a point however I think that with the tier system that Smogon built it sort of helps balance out the format in some ways depending If you're playing Ubers, OU, NU, Little Cup, or other Tier Ranked Formats.

Banning 493 Pokemon for VGC 2011 on the spot just kills existing strategies that could have had alot of synergy with the new Pokemon of Generation V but aren't allowed. Yet the power creep of Generation IV might explain that.

I still believe that Pokemon USA and TPCi could've split the VGC's into 2 formats sort of like in
Magic: The Gathering with Standard Type 2 and Legacy/Extended Type 1 formats. That way it'd be fair game for both newcomers and veterans of the franchise alike.

happyam said:
Also when talking about fairness, I think it is fair in Nintendo's perspective. If you been on track of Pokemon VGC you would figure out the pattern of rules. It had always been what Pokemon are available to players at that time.
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Makes sense cause it would give newcomers a disadvantage even though we would already be at a disadvantage against Japan since they got their games 3 months before we did.

happyam said:
Example: In the early VGC, you only allow Pokemon with LVL 50 or lower and later on, with the game improvement, all Pokemon are auto level down to 50. Why? Because LVL 50 is very easy to raise, instead of LVL 100! Also, LVL 50 introduce more variety on EV and IV based values. Nintendo wants all players to have a chance to raise their competitive Pokemon, instead some so call Veteran player have all their LVL 100 pokemon beating someone who are new to the game who might only have LVL 75 Pokemon.
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Flat Battles were the best thing to happen for this video game franchise starting with HeartGold and SoulSilver and it'd be a shame If they got rid of that feature in Black and White. Not only does it help you EV Train Pokemon much faster but you won't have to go all the way to Level 100, though there's some that will go the distance to 100 but not all.

People are just so dead set on maxing out the stats on their Pokemon when a Level 50 Flat Battle does all the work for you however there are certain moves you want to obtain past Level 50 depending on the Pokemon, If so reaching 100 won't have to matter necessarily but it helps If you do reach 100.

happyam said:
As a conclusion, Pokemon's main target audience is KIDS, and it is for them to have fun. It is not designed for Teenage / Adult "VETERAN" Pokemon players.
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Correction, Pokemon is rated "E" for Everyone according to the ESRB (Entertainment Software Rating Board) so that does include Teenage/Adult "Veteran" Pokemon players. I understand that the age demographic for Pokemon is for kids but there's people who have been hardcore fans of the franchise since Generation I and II like with Red/Blue/Yellow and Gold/Silver/Crystal or Generation III with Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald.

They want to enjoy playing Pokemon they way they have been for years and Generation IV was a great step in the right direction for that and Generation V is promising as well. Then you get to the subject of those classic and nostalgic Pokemon that alot of veteran players love to use cause they grew up with it or they want to have that experience of playing with classic Pokemon in their Generation IV/V games as If they were playing back in the Generation I, II, and III days.

I think that part of the problem with the veteran players is that they get caught up too much with the nostalgia of playing their favorite Pokemon from the old days that they don't want to accept change and let that part of it go especially just to compete with brand new Pokemon as well. It's kinda sad when you think about it, it's their decision If they wanna play or not but for those that refuse they're missing out on something that could be loads of fun.

Pokemon isn't just about the designs themselves it's about the strategy, predictions, and taking advantage of your Opponent's Pokemon through Type Advantage in Moves/STAB or using a unique strategy like Trick Room or a Weather Related Team to have fun. The Pokemon video games were designed to be Semi-Competitive not FULLY Competitive, I understand that.

slickmario said:
And happyam wins!
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Not so fast, slickmario! ;)
 
On this matter, as a seasoned VGC player, when the rules were first announced in japan I thought they were complete garbage and I was turned away from the metagame completely. But as time passed and Black and White's release drew near they began to grow to me. Every year when the rules are released there are always complaints, but hey as a pokemon community we should comply with them and be grateful that nintendo and TPCI are conducting them. Last year everyone complained about the advent of the ubers into the metagame, and you know what most of us players enjoyed last year's metagame just as much, if not more than the previous ones. TPCI does these rule changes as the newest games fit and to keep the metagame fresh. They just want to make these tournaments more and more better and their rules often reflect this. Look how much the VGC series has grown, we began with a two stop tournament at VGS in 2008 to having a option on the main menu of the games, three age divisions, and being more big than ever in 2011.

Also when you think about it, with the advent of 156 new pokemon, new moves, abilities, and items, would 649 minus ubers and events really be viable? A team would have so much difficulty combating against all of the various team types from goodstuffs and trick room to tailwind. The younger kids would often be overwhelmed, and these events are directed towards the younger kids just as much it is directed towards us. IMO with black and white just released and many still adapting to the pokemon available as well as the new additions in moves, abilities, and items, this ruleset will be nintendo and TPCI's best bet when it comes to allowing the competitive players to get used to these newer pokemon, so hopefully we can have a metagame in future years with all of the pokemon of the previous generations included. These rules may not be what we expected but I'm gonna just reform my team and compete again in an effort to prove how good of a pokemon trainer I am. But hey that's just my two cents...
 
I agree.

We should all just learn to accept the new rules. Some of the new 156 Pokemon are actually pretty good. So I wouldn't rule them out.
 
^I agree, (this is coming from a guy who doesn't know much about the VCG but has been playing Pokémon for years) I have already made a team for my bro and sister that rocks at double and triple battles, there are TONS of new possibilities, and it is great to get new people to get involved. On the other side I don't think it is fair that the Japanese get like a half a year jumpstart on us, but that is where skill gets involved. I believe that may not be the best thing that may have happened to the VGC, but it isn't a "final nail in the coffin" or a KO blow or anything like that, it is just a setback.
 
Card Slinger J, you are putting too much nostalgia into this and speaking too much for other people. The VGCs have been immensely successful, and something like this is not going to kill it. At all.

Me, it benefits me pretty well because I'm always making new teams--when one team is finished, I immediately begin planning out the next one. For this, I've had two all-Unova Pokémon planned out already. If anything, these new rules make me look forward even more to what's going to happen.

I don't think I'll be attending any though. Well, maybe I'll watch.
 
Posted by The Wii Man1234 - Today 04:41 PM
^I agree, (this is coming from a guy who doesn't know much about the VCG but has been playing Pokémon for years) I have already made a team for my bro and sister that rocks at double and triple battles, there are TONS of new possibilities, and it is great to get new people to get involved. On the other side I don't think it is fair that the Japanese get like a half a year jumpstart on us, but that is where skill gets involved. I believe that may not be the best thing that may have happened to the VGC, but it isn't a "final nail in the coffin" or a KO blow or anything like that, it is just a setback.
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The Japanese may have had the advantage of owning the games a tad longer than we have, but their tournament series doesn't start any later than ours, iirc they begin in early April this year with their regional level tournaments. So it looks as if TPCI and Nintendo have been working in closing that gap between the Japanese and American qualifiers.
 
Ophie said:
Card Slinger J, you are putting too much nostalgia into this and speaking too much for other people. The VGCs have been immensely successful, and something like this is not going to kill it. At all.
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Well part of the reason why the VGC's were immensely successful was due to being able to use Pokemon from previous Generation's competitively dating back to the 1st Generation. These new rules do hurt existing strategies with the old and new Pokemon but make up for it with new one's that have yet been tested and approved which makes it all the more interesting until of course movesets are leaked on Smogon and people copy those movesets to compete.

Sure I may be speaking too much for other people however I'm trying to make a valid point. I've already said that I'm willing to give 5th Gen a shot and I am, so far despite complaints about the new Pokemon designs I'm impressed with what I've seen and played so far judging from temporarily playing my friend's Pokemon Black game. It just takes time to get used to it...
 
I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if I bring up a point that has already been said.

The same thing happened last year with people not being too found with the rules (ubers etc.). The metagame changes and in my opinion post-4th gen VGC metagame was a joke. Without the ubers the metagame was extremely annoying with Dark Void Smeargle being used in nearly every-team, but with the ubers people complained about matchups deciding games. Okay fine, let's say it is about matchups, but if you know that then you will use skill to build your team around that. VGC 2011 everyone has to start off fresh and once again skill is more important than ever, as this time people can't just steal others proven strategies/team. Without Pokémon from the previous generations we now have the chance to design our strategies without being influenced.

In response to the Japanese having longer than us to prepare is comment - That will not change anything. People who intend on doing well at VGC should have started preparing or atleast thinking about the strategies when the games were released in Japan.
 
Haven't read the whole thread aether, but dose this new rule include older pokemon that you can get in B/W? (ex, the magikarp you can buy?)

 
No it doesn't. All the Pokemon have to be Brand New from the Unova Region, that's excluding the previous 493 from past Generations.
 
If anything, it serves the additional purpose of testing the balance in the 5th generation games. It seems to be designed as a standalone set as well as working with previous generations. In any case, I'm not bothered by it at all. I've planned to make all-Unova teams for all four battling types anyway.
 
I think it will actually be good for competitive play alot of newer people will be able to compete. It really doesn't come as a shocker to me considering pokemon already cycles out cards for tgc constantly. It will be good because if they kept the same format no one would really change from the old strategies. It will defiantly make it more fun since their will be lots of different strategies instead of just groudon zappdos the whole time
I do hope they have a limit on ubers or it ll turn into thunderous and landorous just taking their place
 
I was pretty upset about it at first but when you think about it, the Gen IV meta was getting pretty stale, at least things will feel new for a bit.
 
thats gonna suck big time. No tyranitars or kyogres right out stinks. Everyone is just going to do wifi battles so they actually use good combos like tyranitar and excadrill.
i mean whos great idea was this?
 
Sand Stream with Excadrill seems very mediocre at best, but as for the VGC ordeal I'm concerned that my local area that does DS Tournaments will have more low turnouts cause their favorite Pokemon are banned in tournaments.

I'm gonna try to find out more about what everyone thinks about it later today. Personally I don't mind B/W Only but I may have to battle online more If there's going to be less people playing in my area so then that will give me another good reason to EV Train a team of Unova Region Only Pokemon.

Hopefully I'll be able to get a Victini sooner than later... :)
 
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