OU: Strategy The X and Y Metagame Discussion Thread
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RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Its true that Air Lock/Cloud Nine only makes the weather effectively gone while the Air Lock/Cloud Nine Pokemon is out, but if that one was good enough then it could still be a huge boon to weatherless teams. As it is, in OU we pretty much only have Golduck, Altaria, and Lickilicky, which are generally outclassed by other Pokemon except for their Cloud Nine ability, so it doesn't make much difference.
Its true that Air Lock/Cloud Nine only makes the weather effectively gone while the Air Lock/Cloud Nine Pokemon is out, but if that one was good enough then it could still be a huge boon to weatherless teams. As it is, in OU we pretty much only have Golduck, Altaria, and Lickilicky, which are generally outclassed by other Pokemon except for their Cloud Nine ability, so it doesn't make much difference.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Yes yes, Cloud Nine sucks and all the mons with the ability also suck. ^_^
I wouldn't want an ability that removes weather permanently anyways. If you're going to throw a Pokemon on the end of your team for the reason of removing weather, you're just playing a weather war with less of the benefits sun, rain, etc, give their Pokemon. Now you're playing to beat Politoed, Tyranitar, etc, primarily and establish control of the weather instead of just ignoring the weather while you try to knock out all the mons regardless of ability. A weatherless Pokemon just adds unneeded complexity to a style of play that can find other ways to deal with weather. Yeah, it's cool and all to remove weather, but a weather war is still a weather war.
Yes yes, Cloud Nine sucks and all the mons with the ability also suck. ^_^
I wouldn't want an ability that removes weather permanently anyways. If you're going to throw a Pokemon on the end of your team for the reason of removing weather, you're just playing a weather war with less of the benefits sun, rain, etc, give their Pokemon. Now you're playing to beat Politoed, Tyranitar, etc, primarily and establish control of the weather instead of just ignoring the weather while you try to knock out all the mons regardless of ability. A weatherless Pokemon just adds unneeded complexity to a style of play that can find other ways to deal with weather. Yeah, it's cool and all to remove weather, but a weather war is still a weather war.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
I agree with the above post. Perhaps one could argue that with more weather inducers, each weather playstyle may become less consistent and so less likely to be used at tournament level. That's pure speculation though.
If I wanted to be able to nerf weather, I'd favour it in the form of an attack that A) Neutralises weather upon use, B) Deals (decent) damage and C) Has a fairly wide distribution. More Cloud Nine distribution on Pokemon able to tank ridiculous Hydro Pump/Fire Blast spam would be nice too (GOLDUCK EVO!!!!).
I agree with the above post. Perhaps one could argue that with more weather inducers, each weather playstyle may become less consistent and so less likely to be used at tournament level. That's pure speculation though.
If I wanted to be able to nerf weather, I'd favour it in the form of an attack that A) Neutralises weather upon use, B) Deals (decent) damage and C) Has a fairly wide distribution. More Cloud Nine distribution on Pokemon able to tank ridiculous Hydro Pump/Fire Blast spam would be nice too (GOLDUCK EVO!!!!).
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Wider distribution of airlock/cloud nine, while still a weather tactic:
It evens the playing field if only for one Pokemon at time enough to to perhaps KO something that relies heavily on their respective weather or at least stop it from sweeping. Sounds pretty good to me...It's all a question of what has Cloud Nine, Golduck is useless in OU but something better?
The skilled player will come prepared, the not so much will perhaps find it more challenging to continue using weather and drop it altogether.
Wider distribution of airlock/cloud nine, while still a weather tactic:
- Robs a team of their precious Defences/Accuracy/Attack boost/ abilities dependent on weather
- Removes the burdens from your side, damage from hail/sandstorm and returns water and fire attacks to normal
- Weather is disabled no matter what comes in until the Cloud Nine user is switched out or KO'd
It evens the playing field if only for one Pokemon at time enough to to perhaps KO something that relies heavily on their respective weather or at least stop it from sweeping. Sounds pretty good to me...It's all a question of what has Cloud Nine, Golduck is useless in OU but something better?
The skilled player will come prepared, the not so much will perhaps find it more challenging to continue using weather and drop it altogether.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Has anyone thought about Inkay/Malimar's new move Topsy Turvy?
It reverses all stat changes (ex. Volcarona uses Quiver Dance, at +1spe/spa/spd. Pokemon comes in and uses Topsy Turvy on it, it becomes -1spe/spa/spd).
This I can see having a good use. Having the potential to ruin a Pokemon's stat gain is a great thing. (however the Pokemon would really have to be prepared to potentially take a hit)
Has anyone thought about Inkay/Malimar's new move Topsy Turvy?
It reverses all stat changes (ex. Volcarona uses Quiver Dance, at +1spe/spa/spd. Pokemon comes in and uses Topsy Turvy on it, it becomes -1spe/spa/spd).
This I can see having a good use. Having the potential to ruin a Pokemon's stat gain is a great thing. (however the Pokemon would really have to be prepared to potentially take a hit)
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Pretty sure it's only going to be on Malimar, who isn't going to be a true defensive stopper with that Dark/Psychic-typing. Normal phazing / hazing has better distrubution for the same results.
Pretty sure it's only going to be on Malimar, who isn't going to be a true defensive stopper with that Dark/Psychic-typing. Normal phazing / hazing has better distrubution for the same results.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
I think Parting Remark is, right now, what I'm most curious about. It seems to easy to abuse on a heavy offense team, since your opponent is pretty much forced to switch, opening up an opportunity for setup sweepers.
Stealth Rock + Parting Remark on one Pokemon sounds wonderful... and then you throw in Multiscale Dragonite.
Fairy type will probably have a nice impact in OU. I can see Scizor getting an even further boost in popularity due to Bullet Punch hitting them for x2, but that's pretty much the only Steel-type move used regularly in OU (Iron Head / Meteor Mash are only really used on Jirachi / Metagross), and I doubt a weakness to Poison will affect them too much in the long run.
Speaking of Fairy-types, I wonder what new type combos we'll get with it. I really see it performing well as an offensive type due to hitting Fighting, Dark and Dragons. In particularly, I see Fairy/Ground being a pretty solid dual type combo, with Celebi being the only big Pokemon that resists both types. I don't really see it being too useful as a defensive type due to it's only resistance/immunity being Dragon.
I think Parting Remark is, right now, what I'm most curious about. It seems to easy to abuse on a heavy offense team, since your opponent is pretty much forced to switch, opening up an opportunity for setup sweepers.
Stealth Rock + Parting Remark on one Pokemon sounds wonderful... and then you throw in Multiscale Dragonite.
Fairy type will probably have a nice impact in OU. I can see Scizor getting an even further boost in popularity due to Bullet Punch hitting them for x2, but that's pretty much the only Steel-type move used regularly in OU (Iron Head / Meteor Mash are only really used on Jirachi / Metagross), and I doubt a weakness to Poison will affect them too much in the long run.
Speaking of Fairy-types, I wonder what new type combos we'll get with it. I really see it performing well as an offensive type due to hitting Fighting, Dark and Dragons. In particularly, I see Fairy/Ground being a pretty solid dual type combo, with Celebi being the only big Pokemon that resists both types. I don't really see it being too useful as a defensive type due to it's only resistance/immunity being Dragon.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Frankly I think Gen 6 will completely break OU altogether. It's hard enough as it is accounting for most of the metagame as it is with weather being borderline over centralizing (not that i have anything against using weather myself), and Gen 5 gave us a massive power creep that all but killed stall (again, I have seen a few effective OU stall teams). If gen 6 doesn't have a power creep of it's own, the new mons may struggle to fit in, and if it does contribute to the creep, even more stuff will break. I havent seen any guaranteed overly-abusable/powerful new moves yet, but Parting Shot (some people seem to call this Parting remark, though I can't trace the origin. The E3 announcement called it Parting Shot in any case) could make Volt-Turn teams even more effective (and possibly broken, depending on the moves' new disributions)
Frankly I think Gen 6 will completely break OU altogether. It's hard enough as it is accounting for most of the metagame as it is with weather being borderline over centralizing (not that i have anything against using weather myself), and Gen 5 gave us a massive power creep that all but killed stall (again, I have seen a few effective OU stall teams). If gen 6 doesn't have a power creep of it's own, the new mons may struggle to fit in, and if it does contribute to the creep, even more stuff will break. I havent seen any guaranteed overly-abusable/powerful new moves yet, but Parting Shot (some people seem to call this Parting remark, though I can't trace the origin. The E3 announcement called it Parting Shot in any case) could make Volt-Turn teams even more effective (and possibly broken, depending on the moves' new disributions)
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Who cares about Lucario? They gave Mawile HUGE POWER. On Azumaril sure. It has like base 50 attack. Mawile has base 85, which means unboosted it reaches 590. With Iron Head, Elemental Punches, Sucker Punch, and SWORDS DANCE. (+2 Mawile has higher attack than +4 Heracross.) Can you imagine passing agility and then spamming 590 attack Iron Heads?
I quit pokemon
Who cares about Lucario? They gave Mawile HUGE POWER. On Azumaril sure. It has like base 50 attack. Mawile has base 85, which means unboosted it reaches 590. With Iron Head, Elemental Punches, Sucker Punch, and SWORDS DANCE. (+2 Mawile has higher attack than +4 Heracross.) Can you imagine passing agility and then spamming 590 attack Iron Heads?
I quit pokemon
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
Depends on how the formes are activated. If they're an inbattle item, then it's probably not too viable. If they have to hold an item, then it's a bit of a nerf depeding on the stat layout.
Absol has a niche of being a Magic Bouncer that isn't Ttar weak, which could be rather beneficial in the long run in a tier like UU (heck, it can beat Froslass too). Should at least fit in well in UU with this new form, and may see an appearance time to time depending on how hazardous OU is.
Mawile's 590 Attack is even higher than Thick Club Marowak, which gets a lot of love among newer players for hitting like a truck. Actually, I think Mawile's Huge Power form hits the highest attack stat period. Deoxys-A hits 504 with +Atk nature. The only thing I can find that beats it is Modest Soul Dew Latios which hits 591 SpA. So yeah, this thing will hit hard.
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 190-224 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Now with Bullet Punch being just as strong as Extremespeed, Lucario can run it pretty well now (plus it won't run into PP problems) and can use it to stop Terrakion from revenging it. The only thing that walls a +2 Lucario is Jellicent, which takes 30% from a +2 Bullet Punch.
Blaziken is still going to be Uber.
Ampharos is interesting. Electric/Dragon is a pretty neat typing, resisting: Flying, Steel, Water, Grass, Fire and Electric and being weak to: Fairy, Ground, Ice and Dragon. The weaknesses really are unfortunate, with all four probably going to be good offensive types in OU. All in all, I think the potential is certainly there but I do think it's the worst of the six. Mold Breaker is nice but it doesn't really have anything to benefit from it.
imo, Blaziken, Lucario and Mewtwo are gonna be uber. Absol is UU, probably Mawile too and Ampharos will be RU or lower.
Depends on how the formes are activated. If they're an inbattle item, then it's probably not too viable. If they have to hold an item, then it's a bit of a nerf depeding on the stat layout.
Absol has a niche of being a Magic Bouncer that isn't Ttar weak, which could be rather beneficial in the long run in a tier like UU (heck, it can beat Froslass too). Should at least fit in well in UU with this new form, and may see an appearance time to time depending on how hazardous OU is.
Mawile's 590 Attack is even higher than Thick Club Marowak, which gets a lot of love among newer players for hitting like a truck. Actually, I think Mawile's Huge Power form hits the highest attack stat period. Deoxys-A hits 504 with +Atk nature. The only thing I can find that beats it is Modest Soul Dew Latios which hits 591 SpA. So yeah, this thing will hit hard.
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Lucario Close Combat vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 190-224 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Now with Bullet Punch being just as strong as Extremespeed, Lucario can run it pretty well now (plus it won't run into PP problems) and can use it to stop Terrakion from revenging it. The only thing that walls a +2 Lucario is Jellicent, which takes 30% from a +2 Bullet Punch.
Blaziken is still going to be Uber.
Ampharos is interesting. Electric/Dragon is a pretty neat typing, resisting: Flying, Steel, Water, Grass, Fire and Electric and being weak to: Fairy, Ground, Ice and Dragon. The weaknesses really are unfortunate, with all four probably going to be good offensive types in OU. All in all, I think the potential is certainly there but I do think it's the worst of the six. Mold Breaker is nice but it doesn't really have anything to benefit from it.
imo, Blaziken, Lucario and Mewtwo are gonna be uber. Absol is UU, probably Mawile too and Ampharos will be RU or lower.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
>As predicted the Mega Pokemon appear in battles only.
>In order to Mega Evolve the eligible Pokemon needs to be holding the Mega Stone.
So the last big question left is "do they transform at the start of battle?" or do you need to use the -ite item to make them evolve IN ADDITION to the Mega Stone.
If it's the second one then none of these guys are going to be used competitively.
>As predicted the Mega Pokemon appear in battles only.
>In order to Mega Evolve the eligible Pokemon needs to be holding the Mega Stone.
So the last big question left is "do they transform at the start of battle?" or do you need to use the -ite item to make them evolve IN ADDITION to the Mega Stone.
If it's the second one then none of these guys are going to be used competitively.
RE: The X and Y Metagame Speculation Thread
You know, if it does occur only once the battle starts, I would imagine the Pokemon's normal appearance will appear in team preview, not its mega evolution. That certainly makes things difficult if a Pokemon is given a new forme that's just as good as its regular forme.
I don't care if Ampharos is UU or lower; Volt Switch + Draco Meteor + Thunder sounds like an amazing combination when you consider the regular forme already has 115 SpAtk. Factor in Agility, Focus Blast, and Hidden Power, and you might just have something. Mold Breaker is pretty useless, although it does bypass Sturdy and the rare LightningRod / Volt Absorb. Obviously the new forme will have to receive a major boost in the speed department to get any sort of use, but I have high hopes for anything that gets Zekrom's sexy typing.
You know, if it does occur only once the battle starts, I would imagine the Pokemon's normal appearance will appear in team preview, not its mega evolution. That certainly makes things difficult if a Pokemon is given a new forme that's just as good as its regular forme.
I don't care if Ampharos is UU or lower; Volt Switch + Draco Meteor + Thunder sounds like an amazing combination when you consider the regular forme already has 115 SpAtk. Factor in Agility, Focus Blast, and Hidden Power, and you might just have something. Mold Breaker is pretty useless, although it does bypass Sturdy and the rare LightningRod / Volt Absorb. Obviously the new forme will have to receive a major boost in the speed department to get any sort of use, but I have high hopes for anything that gets Zekrom's sexy typing.