There Is No That Is Now Let Us Know

[sillykyle]

First of all, this is my first RMT, so please don't kill me if I forgot something. :> I made this team because my only decent team was pretty old, and I felt like a needed a new one. I tried making a few weatherless teams, but they were all terrible, so I decided to attempt a hail team because I didn't really want to use rain or sand.

Spoiler: Team Building Process

This is a hail team, so it's gonna have an Abomasnow. I decided a defensive subseeder was the way to go.

I needed a spinner and something to take dragon moves, and Forretress gets access to Overcoat as a dream world ability making it the perfect choice.

I wanted the team to be a bit more stall oriented than my usual teams, so I added the notorious SubRoost Kyurem.

I added Heatran to take fire moves and set up stealth rock.

I then added Froslass to help a little bit with my fighting weakness and to set up spikes/taunt/spinblock.

Finally, I added Mamoswine to clean up the mess left by the rest of the team with powerful ice shards.

I needed an extra check for fighting moves, so I replace Heatran with Landorus-T as my stealth rock user.

I replaced Forretress with Tentacruel for better coverage of my wekanesses thanks to suggestions from Bippa and Dark Void.

Politicians Suck (Abomasnow) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 52 SAtk / 84 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Speed)
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Pretty standard subseed set. EVs are taken from Smogon, but I added 52 SAtk to always take out 252 HP Jirachi subs. As with any subseeder, the goal is to get yourself behind a sub and leech seed everything to death. This one also carries protect to be extra annoying, and HP fire for Pokemon like Ferrothorn that would otherwise wall it all day. Abomasnow also gets the benifit of being in hail, which increases the damage being taken by most opponents.

Squidward (Tentacruel) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

Despite not having immunity to hail which hurts quite a bit, Tentacruel has a spot on this team thanks to his ability to take fire and fighting hits aimed at my ice types with ease while reliably spinning away hazzards. Rapid spin is the main attraction of the set, getting rid of unwanted stealth rocks that could potentially ruin me. Toxic spikes is there for extra residual damage against a fair amount of pokes, namely all four other weather starters. Scald is the most annoying move in all of Unova, so I simply had to include that. Ice beam is for a bit of coverage against dragons and ground/flying types like Gliscor and Landorus.

sillykyurem (Kyurem) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 240 Speed / 52 HP / 216 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth Power

First of all, best nickname ever. Kyurem is a monster that really deserves to be OU, and sets like this prove that. The combination of substitute, roost and pressure allows it to stall out many foes until they have no PP left in their only move that can hit Kyurem for much damage. They will also quite possibly be taking hail damage as well, which will start to build up after a few turns if they don't have leftovers. Kyurem also hits like a truck, with base 130 SAtk boosted by almost full EVs and a modest nature. Dragon pulse is my main STAB and hits everything except steels for at least neutral damage, while earth power is my coverage move to hit things like Heatran.

Land Br0 (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Landorus-T is a solid SR user, with great defensive typing and access to intimidate, which allows it to switch in on many common physical attackers. It also acts as a nice check to sand teams. Stealth rock is the main move, with earthquake providing a solid STAB and stone edge providing some additional coverage. U-turn is for scouting purposes. The EV spread allows it to almost always survive two jolly CB Terrakion stone edges even after stealth rock damage (always if not in hail), and also guarantees an OHKO on offensive Dragonite after stealth rock with stone edge. Credit for the EV set goes to AoH.

Jadis (Froslass) (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Speed / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Speed, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond

This thing is pretty underrated IMO. Base 110 speed and access to taunt and spikes makes it a great support Pokemon, with spikes providing nice residual damage and taunt preventing things from setting up on it. Destiny bond can be used to take an easy kill when used with good prediction, and can also scare opponents out allowing Froslass to set up more spikes. Shadow ball can hit a decent amount of things for neutral or super effective damage, and coupled with Froslass's high speed can be used to finish off weakened threats.

Manny (Mamoswine) @ Life Orb
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Superpower

Last but not least, we have Mamoswine. Carrying the best priority move in OU, with STAB to boot. In all honesty, ice shard is going to be the move of choice 99% of the time, finishing off or even OHKOing many big OU threats. Earthquake is the main STAB besides ice shard, allowing it to hit for huge damage with even neutral hits. Icicle crash is a secondary ice move, for things that aren't hit hard enough by ice shard. Superpower rounds off Mamoswine's coverage, allowing it to hit things like Rotom-W for neutral damage and Ferrothorn for super effective damage. The stat drop can be a pain, but Mamoswine isn't supposed to stay in for too long anyway.

Spoiler: Previous Team Members

I Can Still Fly (Heatran) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stealth Rock

Froslass (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Speed)
IVs: 0 Speed
- Toxic Spikes
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch

Changes are in bold. And that's about it. Hope you enjoyed!

Spoiler: Importable

Politicians Suck (Abomasnow) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 52 SAtk / 84 SDef
Sassy Nature
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Squidward (Tentacruel) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
Bold Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

sillykyurem (Kyurem) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 52 HP / 216 SAtk / 240 Spd
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth Power

Land Br0 (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Jadis (Froslass) (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond

Manny (Mamoswine) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Superpower

 

[One Approved]

*Approved*

 

[Dork Void]

You've got 4 Fire weaknesses, 2 of which are 4x, and no resistances. No, no, no.

Remove Froslass and Forretress. Forretress adds a 4x fire weakness to hail teams and doesn't resist any of the other things that they are weak to (well, except steel but only Rachi and Metagross use that). Not every mon has to be able to avoid damage from hail. Tentacruel is much better than him as Tenta resists Fire and Fighting, does well against rain teams, and can also Spin and T-Spikes.

I'd probably replace Froslass with Jellicent. Jellicent is slower and takes damage from hail and can't use Spikes, but on the other hand it is much tankier, has a way better typing (especially for your team), can still spinblock, has access to Recover, and more.

 

[Equinox]

Honestly, I think you need to worry about the other weather conditions than SS. A nice antiweather Mon is Kingdra. Sure it's UU, but tiering isn't the most important thing when it comes to using a Pokemon. With Kingdra, you can check SS, Rain, and Sun. Not even mentioning the fact that Kingdra resists the Fire-types that want to ruin Hail.

You could go with a Rest Talk set like:

Kingdra @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 160 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

It's more defensive, and Kingdra really won't mind Ferrothorn, because he can rest off the residual damage. If you face off against Drizzle teams, Swift Swim will not even care what your foe has. Sure, you only have Outrage to use, but pretty much anything that doesn't resist will take huge chunks of damage, and anything not named Skarmory will have a bad time trying to ruin your sweep. Even if you're uncomfortable going up against steel-types, you should have things that can take care of them (Kingdra can easily boost and shrug off damage from Scizor, Ferrothorn, and the likes, Skarmory will phaze you away though)

 

[Professor Palutena]

Jellicent would really be a better fit for your team to provide better synergy. Froslass can't really take on Fighting-types that well due to the supplementary Rock-type move that pretty much all of them carry (only one that doesn't is Breloom, but it's still possible to see it with Rock Tomb). Jellicent will continue to give you Taunt, and while it can't Spike, Forretress can. Either the utility counter or special wall set will work for your team.

On one hand, Forretress does expand your weakness to Fire-type moves to pretty enormous proportions. But on the other, it gives you that very critical rapid spin support. For a better synergetic fit, try putting a 3 Attacks + SR Heatran on your team, in place of Mamoswine. With Flash Fire absorption, Forry will feel really comfortable.

Alternately, you can put Tentacruel in place of Forretress, getting you both of your Forry's main perks: Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, while being able to take a few Fighting-type moves. You will lose Spikes support though.

As a final suggestion, I'd consider Hone Claws Kyurem-B for your team, obviously instead of SubRoost Kyurem. This set is phenominal with hazard support, and is incredibly tough to take down due to the insane bulk of its Substitutes. It still packs the same old SubRoost set up, but gives you a very excellent phaser for your team. Here's the set:

Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
Trait: Terravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Hone Claws
- Dragon Tail
- Roost

tl;dr version:
- Froslass, +Jellicent
- Mamoswine, + Heatran or - Forry, + Tentacruel
- Kyurem, + Kyurem-B

 

[sillykyle]

You've got 4 Fire weaknesses, 2 of which are 4x, and no resistances. No, no, no.

Remove Froslass and Forretress. Forretress adds a 4x fire weakness to hail teams and doesn't resist any of the other things that they are weak to (well, except steel but only Rachi and Metagross use that). Not every mon has to be able to avoid damage from hail. Tentacruel is much better than him as Tenta resists Fire and Fighting, does well against rain teams, and can also Spin and T-Spikes. I'll definitely by testing this out, seeing as it has rapid spin and toxic spikes just like Forretress and can also take fire moves. Thank you for the suggestion.

I'd probably replace Froslass with Jellicent. Jellicent is slower and takes damage from hail and can't use Spikes, but on the other hand it is much tankier, has a way better typing (especially for your team), can still spinblock, has access to Recover, and more.
I'm honestly not sure what the problem with Froslass is. It can't take really hits, true, but it's more there to set up as many spikes as possible and hopefully take something out with a destiny bond as it dies. It's also nice for picking off weakened foes that are slower than it with shadow ball, something Jellicent can't really do. It's not really meant to stay in and take hits while it spinblocks, I usually just try to KO their spinner quickly with something else or if necessary predict a spin and go from there. Destiny bond often does the trick.

Honestly, I think you need to worry about the other weather conditions than SS. A nice antiweather Mon is Kingdra. Sure it's UU, but tiering isn't the most important thing when it comes to using a Pokemon. With Kingdra, you can check SS, Rain, and Sun. Not even mentioning the fact that Kingdra resists the Fire-types that want to ruin Hail.

You could go with a Rest Talk set like:

Kingdra @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 160 SpD
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

It's more defensive, and Kingdra really won't mind Ferrothorn, because he can rest off the residual damage. If you face off against Drizzle teams, Swift Swim will not even care what your foe has. Sure, you only have Outrage to use, but pretty much anything that doesn't resist will take huge chunks of damage, and anything not named Skarmory will have a bad time trying to ruin your sweep. Even if you're uncomfortable going up against steel-types, you should have things that can take care of them (Kingdra can easily boost and shrug off damage from Scizor, Ferrothorn, and the likes, Skarmory will phaze you away though) I'm honestly not sure where you got the idea that I'm worried about sand, other than one line in Landorus-T's description. In my testing so far I've been fine against most weather teams, and if I do add Tentacruel it will further help with both rain and sun.

Jellicent would really be a better fit for your team to provide better synergy. Froslass can't really take on Fighting-types that well due to the supplementary Rock-type move that pretty much all of them carry (only one that doesn't is Breloom, but it's still possible to see it with Rock Tomb). Jellicent will continue to give you Taunt, and while it can't Spike, Forretress can. Either the utility counter or special wall set will work for your team. I already stated my opinion on Froslass vs Jelli earlier in this post, so I'll let you read that.

On one hand, Forretress does expand your weakness to Fire-type moves to pretty enormous proportions. But on the other, it gives you that very critical rapid spin support. For a better synergetic fit, try putting a 3 Attacks + SR Heatran on your team, in place of Mamoswine. With Flash Fire absorption, Forry will feel really comfortable.

Alternately, you can put Tentacruel in place of Forretress, getting you both of your Forry's main perks: Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, while being able to take a few Fighting-type moves. You will lose Spikes support though. I do indeed plan to try Tentacruel over Forretress. I'll be able to keep the spikes if I stick with Froslass.

As a final suggestion, I'd consider Hone Claws Kyurem-B for your team, obviously instead of SubRoost Kyurem. This set is phenominal with hazard support, and is incredibly tough to take down due to the insane bulk of its Substitutes. It still packs the same old SubRoost set up, but gives you a very excellent phaser for your team. Here's the set:

Kyurem-B @ Leftovers
Trait: Terravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SpD / 56 Spe
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Hone Claws
- Dragon Tail
- Roost

I feel that losing the coverage of focus blast could give me some problems, and I'll also miss the PP stalling aspect of it as well as the speed. However, the phazing and extra bulk would be a welcome addition to the team, so I'll probably end up at least testing it.

tl;dr version:
- Froslass, +Jellicent
- Mamoswine, + Heatran or - Forry, + Tentacruel
- Kyurem, + Kyurem-B

Replies are in bold. Thank you for the rates everyone!

 

[Uralya]

First off, I love the Kyurem nick. Priceless.

Now, with Landorus-T, that spread of yours can't switch in on CB Terrakion's SEdge twice even without SR in play. I highly recommend a spread of 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def or even more defense, as the 64 Atk is only to ensure than SEdge KOs Offensive Dragonite after SR. The defenses I listed ensure the survival of what I mentioned first WITH SR in play.

Otherwise, pretty sweet team. I am very interested in your Abomasnow set, as it has no STAB moves like Blizzard or Wood Hammer. You also use a peculiar Kyurem set (love the speedcreep factor), but I feel like Blizzard and Earth Power is a viable option for you as well. Focus Blast sounds nice, but you have no trouble with Ferrothorn, and Skarmory isn't all that reliable in Hail. Personal preference though. I normally have Heatran AND Lando-T.

Best of luck.

~AoH

 

[sillykyle]

First off, I love the Kyurem nick. Priceless. ikr

Now, with Landorus-T, that spread of yours can't switch in on CB Terrakion's SEdge twice even without SR in play. I highly recommend a spread of 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def or even more defense, as the 64 Atk is only to ensure than SEdge KOs Offensive Dragonite after SR. The defenses I listed ensure the survival of what I mentioned first WITH SR in play. I'll definitely try that out. I didn't have a custom EV set before because I'm not very good at making my own and Smogon doesn't have sets for it up yet, so thank you for that.

Otherwise, pretty sweet team. I am very interested in your Abomasnow set, as it has no STAB moves like Blizzard or Wood Hammer. I had ice shard on it at first for picking off weakened threats, but protect is just too vital to lose and HP fire hits those darn Ferrothorns that would otherwise use it as set up bait. You also use a peculiar Kyurem set (love the speedcreep factor), but I feel like Blizzard and Earth Power is a viable option for you as well. Focus Blast sounds nice, but you have no trouble with Ferrothorn, and Skarmory isn't all that reliable in Hail. Personal preference though. I've gotten multiple comments from people saying to try this, and it is the more popular choice, so I probably will test it at some point. I normally have Heatran AND Lando-T.

Best of luck.

~AoH

Replies in bold. Thanks for the rate. =)

EDIT: Is the landorus adamant or impish?

 

[Uralya]

The Lando-T is Adamant, almost forgot. Thank you for reminding me.

As for the Kyurem spread, yes, Ice+Ground is the best for super-effective coverage, while Dragon+Fighting is best for neutral coverage. Kyurem doesn't have access to a powerful STAB with your set, and it needs ALL the super-effective coverage it can get. Jirachi seems like a bit of a problem save Mamoswine and Lando-T, but SubCM Rain variants can tear through them. Earth Power 2HKOs these variants.

Any time, bro.

~AoH

 

[sillykyle]

OP updated, everything should be up to date now. Keep the rates coming! =)

 

[Shadow Scyther]

I would suggest Gliscor over Landorus-T as it gives you a better defensive Pokemon and it is one of few Pokemon that don't lose health in hail.

move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Roost / Protect
item: Toxic Orb
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe

 

[sillykyle]

I'll try that and see how it goes, thanks!

 

[The Yoshi]

Scarf Terrakion seems to be a problem here (even the Choice Band variant, because your team isn't very fast), so I second SS's suggestion of Gliscor over Landorus-T; it will solve the problem of not enough defense, and a solid check to Scarf/Band Terra. You could also change Abomasnow to a Scarfed set to out speed max-invested Base 110s (like Lati@s and Terrakion). Those are some small suggestions that may help the team, but by no means do you have to try them out.

I like the creativity of Froslass on the team, and I like the nicknames too. Good luck with the team.

 

[Professor Palutena]

That Landorus-T set counters Banded Terrakion, so I can say with almost perfect certainty that it counters Scarf Terrakion.

 

[Uralya]

As Bippa said, yes it walls any variant of Terrakion sans SD. That spread has more bulk on both sides of the spectrum and carries his SR. Lando-T also has many more attack options and power, something physical is what he needs, and it has U-turn (nuff said). Besides, your Gliscor spread is not as useful now due to the resurgence of SD Lucario, who is quite the problem. It would need to invest over 200 Spe EVs (not sure of the exact amount atm) to outspeed it, and as a result it is nowhere near as bulky. Given that Lando-T counters a bit more than Gliscor, has more support options (Tentacruel already has the poison covered), and can give teammates like Kyurem free switchins on weakened physical attackers, I would keep him. It's a good suggestion, but this team appreciates Lando-T. Gliscor, eh, he's more of a stone barricade in this case - he offers little to no momentum. Lando-T, on the other hand, does (a fairly large amount).

~AoH

 

[Shadow Scyther]

Must agree with everything you guys said about Lando-T as it is a better Pokemon. The real problem is that Lando can't even get back lefties recovery so I doubt it will survive more than 2 switch-ins to Terakion. Also correct me if I am wrong but Lucario already outspeeds Landorus-T so not like he needs to use all those Speed EVs on Gliscor.

Choice Band Stone Edge vs Lando 37-42% 3HKO (it can switch once)

also you have no rock resistances so Terrakion will go for Stone Edge most of the time.

Choice Band Stone Edge vs my Gliscor 29-35% 4HKO and possibly more with Protect or Roost

Also why not Bliizard on Tenta.

 

[sillykyle]

Tenta gets blizzard????

EDIT: I'd honestly rather keep ice beam, seeing as tenta isn't always gonna be in hail and being a defensive poke he's probably better off with a more consistent attack. As for Land bro vs Gliscor, I've been testing both to see which is better. I'm not quite sure yet.

 

[Dork Void]

I don't think that there s a single Pokemon that gets Ice Beam but not Blizzard, I might be wrong however.

I also agree that Ice Beam is better than Blizzard on Tentacruel, as the greater pp and guaranteed accuracy is more likely to come in handy than the increase in power.

 

[iSharingan]

I would like to present another option for Landorus. Due to it's obvious Physical prowess, Physical sets abound. Many battlers realize this and can send in bulkier physical walls. What I propose is a mixed attacker set with Sheer Force and Life Orb (as seen below):

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 200 HP / 240 Def / 64 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Wave

Since Landorus' Atk, SAtk, and Speed are the only base stats that differ between the forms, the same EVs will work. Since all of the listed moves have a secondary effects, Life Orb damage would not occur, you would get an attack boost from both Life Orb AND Sheer force (netting greater total power on BOTH attacking stats than Landous-T gets on it's higher base Atk alone), and (if I remember my Sheer Force mechanics correctly) you won't even take Hail damage. With a Quiet nature, it's speed only drops 4 points due to the higher base speed on it's Incarnate form and . While you may lose U-turn's scouting ability, this powerhouse requires no setup and can remove many walls for your team (which would open the way for the recommended Kingdra to boost and sweep after Skarmory is removed).

 

[sillykyle]

I would like to present another option for Landorus. Due to it's obvious Physical prowess, Physical sets abound. Many battlers realize this and can send in bulkier physical walls. First of all, I would like to point out that the majority of Landorus-I are specially based these days, and it's completely lost its surprise factor. What I propose is a mixed attacker set with Sheer Force and Life Orb (as seen below):

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 200 HP / 240 Def / 64 SAtk / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Wave

Since Landorus' Atk, SAtk, and Speed are the only base stats that differ between the forms, the same EVs will work. The thing is, Landorus-I doesn't get intimidate. Since all of the listed moves have a secondary effects, Life Orb damage would not occur, you would get an attack boost from both Life Orb AND Sheer force lolsludgewave (netting greater total power on BOTH attacking stats than Landous-T gets on it's higher base Atk alone), and (if I remember my Sheer Force mechanics correctly) you won't even take Hail damage. Yes you do. With a Quiet nature, it's speed only drops 4 points due to the higher base speed on it's Incarnate form and . While you may lose U-turn's scouting ability, this powerhouse requires no setup and can remove many walls for your team (which would open the way for the recommended Kingdra to boost and sweep after Skarmory is removed). I'm not using Kindgra...

Replies in bold.

TL;DR: No thanks.