Does anyone else think that Thundurus is a good card? It's really quick and able to get a T2 prize if you go first. So let me know what you think and if you think anything can be paired with it other than catcher.
Thundurus... good or bad?
- Thread starter DeepSleepDarkrai
- Start date
Does anyone else think that Thundurus is a good card? It's really quick and able to get a T2 prize if you go first. So let me know what you think and if you think anything can be paired with it other than catcher.
Well, let's compare it to Zekrom (I'm expecting if people used this, they would also use the Pachi/Shay engine):
Thundurus has 20 less HP, meaning it can be 1-shotted by Reshiram, Zekrom, and Donphan with EQ. Same can't be said for Zekrom, who has 130 HP and is just out of range, unless the opponent uses a PP.
They both have a weakness to fighting and no resistance. They are both lightning-type.
Thundurus has one less retreat cost, so that's a plus– however, I don't know when you would need to retreat with it. Perhaps if it didn't have energy on it and it was Catchered/Reversaled up.
Outrage is much better than Charge. That's just the simple truth.
Now, Disaster Volt and Bolt Strike cost the same, LLC. The former discards an energy (which shouldn't be too hard to get back), while Zekrom does 40 damage to itself. Zekrom also does 40 more damage.
I think this is probably the reason Zekrom is better overall– it has the ability to one-shot most of the format, which is a huge deal. Thundurus can't do the same, and only has 110 HP, meaning only 20 more after Bolt Strike is used. And what in the meta does between 90 and 100 damage that would OHKO Zekrom after Bolt Strike, but not Thundurus? I can't think of much, except perhaps Reshiram or Zekrom using Outrage with 7 or 8 damage counters on it, or maybe Magnezone LZing 2 energy (although it would no doubt be able to LZ 3 or use a PP in order to OHKO Thundurus).
Just my thoughts. It's alright, but I don't see it becoming a good deck.
Thundurus has 20 less HP, meaning it can be 1-shotted by Reshiram, Zekrom, and Donphan with EQ. Same can't be said for Zekrom, who has 130 HP and is just out of range, unless the opponent uses a PP.
They both have a weakness to fighting and no resistance. They are both lightning-type.
Thundurus has one less retreat cost, so that's a plus– however, I don't know when you would need to retreat with it. Perhaps if it didn't have energy on it and it was Catchered/Reversaled up.
Outrage is much better than Charge. That's just the simple truth.
Now, Disaster Volt and Bolt Strike cost the same, LLC. The former discards an energy (which shouldn't be too hard to get back), while Zekrom does 40 damage to itself. Zekrom also does 40 more damage.
I think this is probably the reason Zekrom is better overall– it has the ability to one-shot most of the format, which is a huge deal. Thundurus can't do the same, and only has 110 HP, meaning only 20 more after Bolt Strike is used. And what in the meta does between 90 and 100 damage that would OHKO Zekrom after Bolt Strike, but not Thundurus? I can't think of much, except perhaps Reshiram or Zekrom using Outrage with 7 or 8 damage counters on it, or maybe Magnezone LZing 2 energy (although it would no doubt be able to LZ 3 or use a PP in order to OHKO Thundurus).
Just my thoughts. It's alright, but I don't see it becoming a good deck.
Scizorliscious said:
Bouffalant. The advanatge of Thunderus is that, while it doesn't deal as much damage as Zekrom, it can't be revenge KOed by Zoroark and Bouffalant while at full health. It also forces Zoroark to discard an energy, which is arguably better than doing 40 dmaage to it since 100 damage isn't hard to hit. However, being one-shotted by Donphan, Reshiram, and Zekrom does make it inferior to Zekrom.
I would say the only thing it could be used for is a tech in ZPS, as a quick attacker if you couldn't get the first turn Zekrom, or if you're running switch you could abuse Charge and Shaymin T1, although you'd need to run quite a few switch to make sure you get that combo in, and it's not really worth it. That and because it's killed b majority of our format makes it not that great.
its a basic lightning iteration of Pignite BW 17 with more oomph and importantly less retreat cost which will be a plus in the catcher era. it will be a nice back-up buddy to Zekrom in lightning decks. i think its a nice addition to lightning pokemon giving it a somewhat basic attacker. besides it will be a basic antidote to yanmega prime basically ohkoing it with the second attack.
With access to Nasty Plot in tandem with his blistering base 115 speed and deep movepool...
I mean...
Not really. Yes, it can charge up by T2, but then what? Hit for 80, whoo-hoo. Then your opponent can revenge you pretty easily. IMO, it's not worth it. Even as an early game attacker, it's outclassed by Zekrom, and as a main attacker it would really not be worth it to attach an energy a turn to do 80. Plus he has a weakness in Donphan.
I mean...
Not really. Yes, it can charge up by T2, but then what? Hit for 80, whoo-hoo. Then your opponent can revenge you pretty easily. IMO, it's not worth it. Even as an early game attacker, it's outclassed by Zekrom, and as a main attacker it would really not be worth it to attach an energy a turn to do 80. Plus he has a weakness in Donphan.
Big woop it has a weakness to Donphan... news flash every electric type has a weakness to Donphan. Also I know 80 damage isn't that much but there's not very many basics that have higher hp than that. I do see your point about Zekrom being a better basic electric type and how Thundurus can be OHKO, but with PlusPower, if Thundurus attacks first then Zekrom ko's itself.
No, if you attached a PlusPower and hit Zekrom for 90, it could Outrage for the KO...
And that's not really what I meant. I meant that if you want a early game Electric attacker, Zekrom is better in every sense.
...and I know that most Electric types have a Fighting weakness. Doesn't change that it's a bad characteristic.
And that's not really what I meant. I meant that if you want a early game Electric attacker, Zekrom is better in every sense.
...and I know that most Electric types have a Fighting weakness. Doesn't change that it's a bad characteristic.
bigpokex said:
So? It's still a huge deal. Donphan's big in the metagame, and that's one of the problems Zekrom has.
bigpokex said:
Reshiram and Zekrom, which take up about a quarter of the metagame, would like a word with you.
bigpokex said:
Yeah, IF you're playing against Thundurus, and IF they played a PlusPower, IF they attack first, and IF you're dumb and don't use Outrage. But hey, hardly anyone's going to play Thundurus.
Remember: don't say one's better just because it beats the other. Think how it does against the metagame. For example, just because straight Umbreon beats MagneBoar doesn't mean it's a better deck.
He's pretty bad. I mean, it's a worse version of Zekrom.
For the same amount of energy, Zekrom could OHKO pretty much about anything.
Run it alongside Zekrom? Why? To make your deck THAT much weaker to donphan? No thanks
I can see him being a tech in some rougue build, but even then.... Zekrom does his job better.
For the same amount of energy, Zekrom could OHKO pretty much about anything.
Run it alongside Zekrom? Why? To make your deck THAT much weaker to donphan? No thanks
I can see him being a tech in some rougue build, but even then.... Zekrom does his job better.
I see one MAJOR advantage for including Thundurus in a Zekrom deck. You are all missing this.
The potential to have 8 Ultra Rare Full Art cards in one deck.
Seriously, you would be running the most stylish deck in the world...
Running one would be a good tech against Zoroark or something. Otherwise, yeah. It's not good.
The potential to have 8 Ultra Rare Full Art cards in one deck.
Seriously, you would be running the most stylish deck in the world...
Running one would be a good tech against Zoroark or something. Otherwise, yeah. It's not good.
In it's own deck, it won't be that great.
As a lightning tech in other decks, it is a bit debatable about whether or not it's better then Zekrom. There are advantages to Zekrom (having more hp and doing more damage) but there are also things that Thundurus does better (Lower Retreat cost and doesn't self harm).
However I think it might be a bit better as a tech against Yanmega for two reasons, Zoroark and Magnezone Prime. If you knock out a Yanmega and your opponent brings up Zoroark, the Zoroark can get a revenge ko against Zekrom but not against Thundurus. If your opponent brings up a Magnezone Prime, they will have to use up one more resource to knock out Thundurus (either by using a pluspower or sending a 3rd energy to the lost zone).
I know this will probably change when we start getting red collection cards (cough Eviolite cough), but right now I would say that Thundurus deserves at least a look at as a counter to pokemon with lightning weaknesses.
As a lightning tech in other decks, it is a bit debatable about whether or not it's better then Zekrom. There are advantages to Zekrom (having more hp and doing more damage) but there are also things that Thundurus does better (Lower Retreat cost and doesn't self harm).
However I think it might be a bit better as a tech against Yanmega for two reasons, Zoroark and Magnezone Prime. If you knock out a Yanmega and your opponent brings up Zoroark, the Zoroark can get a revenge ko against Zekrom but not against Thundurus. If your opponent brings up a Magnezone Prime, they will have to use up one more resource to knock out Thundurus (either by using a pluspower or sending a 3rd energy to the lost zone).
I know this will probably change when we start getting red collection cards (cough Eviolite cough), but right now I would say that Thundurus deserves at least a look at as a counter to pokemon with lightning weaknesses.
TragicTheSaddening said:
Yeah, and then you get to do 80 damage back to the Zoroark and...Oh? No KO? That kinda defeats the purpose. And besides, as a counter to Yanmega, Zekrom is better because it can outrage for okay damage without you needing lightning energy. Who wants to carry around this thing and a bunch of electric energy when you could just Outrage Yanmega?
It's an excellent 1-of in ZPS, but other than that, don't bet your money on it.
Dark Void said:
Actually KOing one of their while not having one of your's KOed is the purpose.
TragicTheSaddening said:
Those things are true. Zekrom doesn't even need to take advantage of that x2 Weakness as Bolt Strike KOs Yanmega anyway. The only main problem I see is Donphan Prime. It's still a big card and was in at least one of the Top 2 decks in Masters, and I only see play increasing as it can take advantage of Catcher and Max Potion big time.
dmaster out.
I sort of feel like it could actually replace pachirisu maybe. I mean it isnt as good at getting energies on it as pachi but look at this, t1 you have one electric energy and 1 thunderus. You attach it to him and do the first attack where you search your deck and attach another energy. You have effectively done tthe same thing as pachi right? Except you dont get the other energy placement for that turn.
The thing is, with catcher going to be the next must have in almost every deck pachi is an easy prize for alot of Pokemon. Thunderus is a little bit bulkier and can take a hit and take out a yanmega if needed. I figure you simply stall with it collecting energy and by turn 3 you have 4 energy on it just shaymin them over to your zekroms and your good to attach another energy. This is just an idea
The thing is, with catcher going to be the next must have in almost every deck pachi is an easy prize for alot of Pokemon. Thunderus is a little bit bulkier and can take a hit and take out a yanmega if needed. I figure you simply stall with it collecting energy and by turn 3 you have 4 energy on it just shaymin them over to your zekroms and your good to attach another energy. This is just an idea