Thundurus Special (OU) Need some reviews!

patrick329

patrick329

It's Kyogre! What can I say?
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Hello. My name is patrick329 and I would like my newest team rated. It is for the OU tier. The goal is to scope out all potential counters to Thundurus, and then have him sweep the field. I have Swellow in as a late-game sweeper, and Electivire in as a secondary physical attacker, in case of special walls. Kingdra is my counter to weather.

Marowak @ Thick Club
180px-105Marowak.png

Evs: 252 Hp, 252 Attk, 4 Def
Ability: Lightningrod
Nature: Adamant (+Attk, -Spc. Attk)
Stealth Rock
Bone Club
Stone Edge
Detect
Marowak is a key Pokemon that thanks to setting up Stealth Rock, which allows several would-be 2-hit KOs to become 1-hit KOs. If the opponent is a set-up Pokemon itself, I use Stealth Rock first. Detect is for scouting out taunters and Pokemon that might carry a super-effective move. The Evs are in HP and Attack to make Marowak as bulky as possible. During testing, it was able to survive a Mamoswine's Ice Shard, although it wasn't Choice Banded. If I use Detect and discover that the opponent is a Taunter, I will hit it with whichever move is most effective. I have Bone Club over Earthquake for its ability to brake substitutes and sashes. Lighningrod and Rock Head both are useless abilities for this set, but I chose Lightningrod over Rock Head in case I do a double battle. (Mostly by accident.)

Scizor @ Choice Band
140px-212Scizor.png

Evs: 104 HP, 252 Attk, 152 Spc. Def
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant (+Attk, -Spc. Attk)
Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Pursuit
Superpower
Scizor is a counter to Thundurus main enemies, those super effective to it. (Ice and Rock Types) I had originally gone with a Steelix that knew Curse, Gyro Ball, Magnet Rise, and Earthquake, but he was too susceptible to super effective fighting and fire moves. Scizor only has one weakness, and has a super powerful Technician-boosted Bullet Punch that will 1-hit KO all but the bulkiest of ice and rock types. I carry U-turn if I can get a revenge kill on a slower Pokemon, or from one that Scizor can take a hit from. I use Pursuit to hit the Latis and Reuniclus hard on their switch out. Superpower is situational. Against Tyranitar and Blissey, it is great, but otherwise I prefer not to use it due to the stat drops it gives to Scizor. The EVs are meant for Scizor to take hits from both the ice and rock types it is meant to counter.

Thundurus @ Life Orb
143px-642Thundurus.png

EVs: 4 HP, 252 Spc. Attk, 252 Spd
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Naive (+Spd, -Spc. Def)
Hidden Power Ice
Thunderbolt
Grass Knot
Hammer Arm
Thundurus is my main attacker. It's goal is to come in when threats are eliminated, and rip the opponent to shreds. Here is where I really appreciate the Stealth Rock, because Thundurus is so frail. I never get the chance to set up Nasty Plot, so I traded it out for HP Ice, which adds coverage, and I gave it a life orb, since he wouldn't be taking set up turns anymore. I kept Hammer Arm because after rocks it OHKOs Tyranitar and 2HKOs Blissey. Grass Knot knocks out a lot of ground types that HP Ice wouldn't, mainly due to the fact that HP Ice only has 70 Base Power and many Ground types are fairly heavy. It also OHKOs water ground types, which otherwise wall Thundurus. Thundurus has HP Ice for stellar coverage, and the ability to OHKO many dragons and Gliscor.. The nature allows Thundurus to outspeed positive-natured base 110s, and I carry Life Orb, which boosts Thundurus' Spc. Attk to over 450.

Kingdra @ Air Balloon
155px-230Kingdra.png

EVs: HP: 96, ATTK: 252, Def: 100, Spd: 62
Nature: Naughty
Ability: Swift Swim
Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Outrage
Draco Meteor
Kingdra is an excellent weather counter. Its speed becomes phenomenal in Politoed's rain, it can set up Dragon Dances against Earthquake using at sandstormers, and is x4 resistant to fire types. It carries Waterfall as it's main stab, which is still very powerful even in the sun when it's super-effective. Outrage provides excellent coverage, and hits its only weakness super-effectively. Draco Meteor is there to nail physical walls, and Dragon Dance gives boosts on the switches it forces when in weather. This team hates Excadrill, and carries Air Balloon to come in on a predicted Earthquake and either set up on their switch, or OHKO with Waterfall. The EVs allow Kingdra to take physical hits fairly well, and after 2 Dragon Dances outspeed any Excadrill by 1.

Electivire @ Life Orb
260px-466Electivire.png

EVs: 4 HP, 252 Attk, 252 Spd
Ability: Motor Drive
Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -Spc. Attk)
Wild Charge
Cross Chop
Earthquake
Fire Punch
If Spiritomb fails to take out my opponent's special walls, Electivire serves as a secondary main attacker. Electivire also serves as a counter to Electric types, which annoy Thundurus and Swellow with HP Ice, by switching in on Electric-type attacks. These boost Electivire's speed, thanks to Motor Drive, to slightly over 450. To add insult to injury, my Electivire carries Earthquake, which has good type coverage in general, and also hits Electric types super-effectively. Electivire uses Wild Bolt as a primary stab option, although the recoil racks up fast when combined Life Orb. Electivire has Cross Chop mainly to hit Blissey, but also for coverage, and Fire Punch is to surprise unsuspecting Scizor, Ferothorn, and other Pokemon weak to fire. The nature is to give Electivire maximum speed, and it carries Life Orb to supplement that.

Swellow @ Toxic Orb
277Swellow.png

EVs: 4 Hp, 252 Attk, 252 Spd
Ability: Guts
Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -Spc. Attk)
Brave Bird
Protect
Facade
U-Turn
Swellow makes an excellent late-game sweeper and revenge killer. Unless I can make a quick KO with U-Turn, I use Protect first. Facade is my primary stab, and Brave Bird is for coverage. U-Turn is for if Swellow is walled or can make a revenge kill without activating Toxic Orb. It carries a Jolly nature to outspeed base 110s, and I choose Toxic Orb over Flame Orb because if Swellow is unharmed, it takes 8 turns to faint from Flame Orb, and 10 from Toxic Orb. It also resets the damage recieved back to 1/16 if Swellow switches out.

In short, I use Marowak to set up Stealth Rock and cause a little damage. I follow up with doing my best to eliminate Thundurus' counters with Electivire, Kingdra and Scizor, and let Thundurus fire away. Once most of the team is obliterated, Swellow can come in and finish up.
 
Uh...you keep mentioning a Spiritomb, but I'm not seeing one...did you replace it with Kingdra? Anyway, your team has a pretty big ice wekaness, 3 weaknesses to it and only 1 resistance. Since ice is a really common attacking type, that could give you trouble. Rock is a pretty common attacking type too and you have two weaknesses to it and only 1 resistance. To help these problems I'd suggest replacing Swellow with a steel type, maybe Ferrothorn?
 
Oh I replaced Spiritomb with Kingdra. I find Swellow to be very effective late-game, sweeping many opponents. I forgot to edit it, but placed all Def EVs in Spc. Def for Scizor, and Thundurus outspeeds the fastest OU Ice type, (Froslass,) and can easily OHKO. Scizor easily switches on predicted Ice Shards from Mamoswine. I do want to get rid of Roost on Scizor however. Any suggestions?

I have tested, and have little problem with Ice and Rock, thanks to Scizor, who was put there to counter them.
 
How about enemy thunderus? It seems to me that your only way to deal with an enemy thunderus is to switch in on a T-Bolt using E-Vire or speed tie it with your Thunderus, so if an enemy predicts your switch and wins the speed tie you would be swept.
 
Scizor OHKOes after Stealth Rocks

EDIT
2HKOs, but my Scizor has a lot of SPC. D investment, and will survive a Thunderbolt, even Life Orbed. Also Marowak can take an HP ice and KO with Stone Edge.

Derp Bullet Punch won't 2HKO, but Wild Charge on an expected t-bolt does.
 
Timid LO Thundurus Thunderbolt (+0) vs your Scizor: 199 - 235 (64.8% - 76.5%)
Timid LO Thundurus Thunderbolt (+2) vs your Scizor: 397 - 468 (129.3% - 152.4%)

It will survive a Life Orbed Thunderbolt, but it isn't taking Nasty Plot boosted Thunderbolts. Meanwhile, Scizor 2HKOs after Stealth Rock damage.

Your Scizor Bullet Punch vs 0/4 Thundurus: 108 - 127 (36% - 42.5%)
Your Scizor U-Turn vs above Thundurus: 126 - 148 (42.1% - 49.5%)
Your Scizor Superpower vs above Thundurus: 143 - 169 (47.8% - 56.5%)

Speaking of Scizor, you have Roost on a Choice Set, which doesn't work at all. Put Pursuit in its place to catch Lati@s and Reuniclus as they switch out.

The biggest problem I have with your team is that at least half of them are outclassed by other Pokemon. For example, Marowak is outclasssed by Ferrothorn, Forretress and Jirachi when it comes to laying down entry hazards. As a physical sweeper, Electivire is outclassed by Conkeldurr. Swellow is outclassed by Scarf Landorus when it comes to revenge killing.

If your looking for a better check to Excadrill, try Gliscor. Using its bulk and Poison Heal, it can easily take anything from Excadrill, break its balloon with Ice Fang, and then Earthquake it for the KO.
 
Thanks for the opinions, however there are reasons for each pokemon. I will add Pursuit though, I was trying to replace Roost anyways.

Marowak: While only setting up Stealth Rock, I don't rely on entry hazards, and Marowak hits harder than any of the above mentioned Pokemon. (It gets the chance often.)

Elective cannot be compared to Conkeldurr. It carries different moves, and also is a check to Electric types, with Motor Drive and Earthquake.

Kingdra is to counter Excadrill, but it also counters rain and sun, which Gliscor can't do.

Swallow is not my revenge killer, but a late-game sweeper. It's Facade has base 210 power coming off of 400+ Attack and 380 Speed.It has U-Turn when it needs to get out.
 
Well, aside from Thundurus, it looks to me like your team has trouble with Skarmory too. 5/6 of your team is physical, which means they can't touch Skarm, and Thundurus is weak to stealth rocks so if the Skarm keeps Whirlwinding Thundurus away as it switches in its gonna rack up a ton of damage. Also, a problem with Swellow as a late game sweeper is it is very fragile. Any priority move is going to take out a lot of its hp, and that combined with the toxic will often kill it before it taks out the enemies team, especially because it's walled by steels. Some suggestions I have would be replacing Marowak with Heatran. Heatran can set up SR but has amazing special attack. He has an excellent movepool on the special side and is even quite bulky. Another steel never hurts as it gives you more switches in to ice attacks. It also single-handedly counters any sun team without EQ on their Venusaur. I'd also change Draco Meteor on Kingdra to be Hidden power Fire or Fighting. You want it to be the perfect rain counter but it can't do anything against Ferrothorn as it is, which literally every single rain team carries. That will also give it better coverage against steels in general. Next, Kingdra is not a surefire counter to Excadrill. If you mispredict and they hit you with the Rock Slide over the switch then its EQs will hurt a ton. Similarly, if you DD up predicting them to switch and they stay in and break your balloon, adios you. As such, I'd recommend running either Rotom-W or Gliscor over Swellow. They will both help immensely with sand teams, and Gliscor can even try at sweeping with swords dance.
 
Okay, I will exchange Draco Meteor for HP Fire, but what about Electivire vs. Skarmory? It still hurts it a lot.
 
I doubt E-Vire 2HKOs a max defense skarm with Wild Bolt, especially if the Skarm is using Roost. I haven't run damage calcs but I know from experience that SE physical attacks often fail to 2HKO a skarm.
 
Wild Bolt does 225-264 to a max defense Skarmory. It has Life Orb, remember.
Easily a 2HKO, and I can hit it with Fire Punch, Cross Chop, and even Earthquake if I predict a roost.
 
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