Tornadus or Thundurus?

[Keeper of Night]

If you dont get a DCE with Tornadus then your stuck doing 80 T3.

Thundurus has almost a sure chance to do 80 T2, donking a lot of decks.

Zekrom damages itself 40 and Thundurus discards an energy, which isnt a big deal when there's Energy Retrieval to get it back.

Did anyone think of Thundurus-Pachirisu-Shaymin, instead of Zekrom-Pachirisu-Shaymin?

 

[King Arceus]

i always wondered this but doesn't defender only cause your opponent's attacks to do less and not your own?

You should be asking that in the Rulings Subforum as that is where your question would receive more attention. To answer your question, it reduces self damage as well as opponent damage.

 

[The Yoshi]

Did anyone think of Thundurus-Pachirisu-Shaymin, instead of Zekrom-Pachirisu-Shaymin?

Yes, however, Zekrom is just better in every way. Thundurus hits for 80, Zekrom hits for 120. Zekrom has a good first attack, Thundurus has a bad first attack. Zekrom has more HP, Thundurus has less HP. Zekrom is DCE-compatible (for it's first attack), Thundurus isn't DCE compatible. Zekrom doesn't get one-shotted by Donphan Prime's Earthquake (w/out Pluspowers), Thundurus does. Shall I go on?

Yeah, Tornadus is clearly the better option. Dark Void and JPNGallade pretty much summed it up. Tornadus is just an overall great counter to Donphan Prime. You get rid of Donphan, while they have to 3-shot you with Earthquake. Plus, Tornadus can move around energy with Hurricane when it's close to being KO'd, so you don't waste energy.

 

[AmishEskimoNinja]

Which is better? Well thats hard to say. If you just look at the attack cost and typing, tornadus. However thunderus has something that neither zekrom nor tornadus have: The ability to get a T2 attack off almost no matter what. Thunderus doesn't have to rely on Patchirisu/Shaymin or on getting one of the 4 DCE in your deck. He can attach T1, charge, and then attach T2 for 80 damage. While that may not seem like much, when combined with catcher, you're nuking just about any non legendary basic or stage 1 in a stage 2 line. Its all about consistency. I've heard people discuss Thunderus plus catcher as the new luxray because of its consistency.

 

[Vulpix Yolk]

That still isn't 100% because you have to be able to attach two energy from your hand, if you don't have the energy, you are in trouble. Not to mention that it can't OHKO a Phanpy. If it is the HGSS print, they can Flail kill you afterward

 

[AmishEskimoNinja]

^Well if you're fighting donphan, than obviously you should be using tornadus, not thundurus. But against other decks, Thunderus is one of the most consistent ways to get 80 damage by turn 2. Sure its not 100%, but I think tornadus + 2 energy is more likely than phanphy + donphan + fighting energy, especially since tornadus will be an energy heavy deck, and donphan will be an energy light one.

 

[Izan]

I think this is actually how they imagined the genies. All three of them work together, when you look at it in a broader point.

Thundurus can Charge to draw from deck then discard with his attack, switch out to Landorus who can fish the energy back out from the discard and deal damage, then switch it over to Tornadus whos attack blows the energy over to Thundurus.

Not a pretty line up, since you got the setup attacks in between and are getting attacked in the meantime, which is why this combo would probably never work in competitive play (outside maybe a basic rush deck).

As far as which one is better, I'd say it's a bit early to count Thundurus out. Thundurus' focus is more for the open damager, as like others have already said, it can T2 for 80 damage, which against Stage 1s wont be enough to kill them (except Yanmega which would be OHKO), but it would still deal a great deal of damage, and if he survives can 2HKO almost any of the rest of the current meta's main attackers (minus Donphan due to resistance and pokebody reducing damage by half.)

Tornadus on the other hand can be used in almost any situation but in order to be as fast as Thundurus requires a DCE (which even with 4 isn't guaranteed in an opening hand or the first 2 turn draws even with supporters.) The resistance to Donphan is this boys main attraction as well as the fact that he lacks Thundurus' downfall of Donphan's resistance. Being able to 2HKO ANY of the current Meta attackers is nice, and the resistance to Donphan makes him viable for any deck.

So, sadly I would have to agree that in the broader view, Tornadus is better, but I wouldn't count Thundurus out as a viable opener. He has his places, and maybe later as the meta evolves with future sets he will see more play. But for now, my vote goes to Tornadus for his universal playability.

 

[Rikko145]

Well, I say Thundurus is WAY BETTER!!! (Somebody has gotta stick up for the under dog! Pretty much the only reason I say that is because Thundurus is getting hated on.)

 

[Magnevire]

If I'm not mistaken, Thundrous can survive Donphan's E-Quake if it runs Evolite.

Here's the problem with Thundrous as a "almost 100%" T2 donk. Most decks, barring the slowest like Magneboar or google, can easily and consistently get setup by T2, meaning that you have to go first in order to even get your donk. That in itself is a problem. On top of that, while you're setting up your T2 donk, your opponent has to be unable to play any search power that would get a second pokemon on the field (third if you bother with seeker), or a pokemon that has over 80 HP. Most good decks can set up something of that level by T2 with little difficulty, and easily by T1 if they run any dragons.

In short, your opponent's deck pretty much needs to consistently be unable to even partially setup quickly. Collector and the dragons alone make that borderline impossible. In a league Deck, TPS might be playable, but competitively? I have to give it to Tornadus. It just has more uses in the meta.