tropical beach
- Thread starter snorlax71
- Start date
I've never actually tested Tropical Beach, but it seems like you can easily go without it. After something like a PONT, you are going to have six cards in hand anyways, and with Trainer Lock, odds are you would be able to play a lot of those down. I don't know though, the other thing that I think makes it not needed is that your opponent can utilize it as well, and if you opponent is carrying one, you have no need for yours. That is just the impression I get from this card, I don't have a very expert opinion on this though, because I have no experience with it.
Basically it's good in anything with Reuniclus and it's bad in everything else. It's the perfect card for Reuniclus because it speeds up your setup - that's needed with 30HP basics, and once you have Reuniclus+lock out it doesn't matter about the wasted turn at all. In any other deck, that turn will often cost you the game and there's no need for the card in decks not running Twins anyway.
Celebi23 said:
Horribly incorrect. While it may excel in slower decks it is a great add-on for any deck. I use mine quite frequently in Reshiphlosion, and it has consequently won me many game, allowing me to draw into cards that I wouldn't draw into for a few turns otherwise, and not only that, but when used on an off turn it can force Yanmega into playing Judge or Copycat, or into retreat. Saying "it's bad in everything else." is misleading and unfair. Any deck can utilize it in a free off turn, and it can radically change the outcome of a game.
You are the one that is "horribly incorrect". It is not a good add on in any deck that wants to set up before your opponent does. It is a card that you shouldn't have put into your TyRam. You should have a consistant enough deck to set-up without possible setting up your opponent. Instead, taking it out for a Supporter such as an extra PONT will be much more useful, especially because you don't have to end your turn. It can radically change the outcome of a game, but that means it could change the outcome of your opponents game to. I played against a GothIclus, and had an awful hand, especially after failing some Dual Balls. However, because of his Tropical Beach, I was able to setup.
Glaceon basically nailed it.
The thing he left out was that it's only good if you're running Twins. Without Twins, it's an un-searchable 1-of. By default, that makes it bad. And running 2 copies is a waste of space better put towards 2 draw supporters. The only decks capable of running a high enough Twins to make it worth it are Reuniclus and Magneboar, but it's questionable in Magneboar since you already have Magnezone for staying draw power and there's basically never a situation where it's better to Twins for Tropical Beach and 1 card than Rare Candy and Magnezone.
The thing he left out was that it's only good if you're running Twins. Without Twins, it's an un-searchable 1-of. By default, that makes it bad. And running 2 copies is a waste of space better put towards 2 draw supporters. The only decks capable of running a high enough Twins to make it worth it are Reuniclus and Magneboar, but it's questionable in Magneboar since you already have Magnezone for staying draw power and there's basically never a situation where it's better to Twins for Tropical Beach and 1 card than Rare Candy and Magnezone.
glaceon said:
Did you even read what I said? First of all who are you to say what's good or bad in my deck. Second of all how does it not help you set-up before your opponent? You use it in place of your attack, when everything else you could do during your turn is already done. Third, I will have you know that on turns I use it I have often already played my supporter and am unable to attack because it is too early in the game to do so and in a few slight cases, I desperately need recovery, and I get 4-6 cards off of it depending on my hand size, and it has consistently turned an otherwise bad hand into an outright amazing hand, and for the record I already had maxed out PONT. Is it always useful of course not, but what card is? Also yes I realize that Tropical Beach can help your opponent, but that's why you only play it when you need it. You don't just play it when you have 6 cards in hand unless you desperately need that one card. My point is that it isn't bad in any deck, the only thing that makes it bad is poor timing on the part of the player, and your failure to realize that is your lose and your lose alone.
EDIT: @ Celebi 23
Twins has nothing to do with this card, sure it makes it easier to get, but it is most useful in early set-up and thus Twins can't help get it anyway, it's an easy to play TECH that helps poor hands set-up.
Cleffa is better than Beach in Reshiram because it can be searched. The chances you have a Cleffa early game when you need it are much better than the chances you hit your one Tropical Beach. Furthermore, your running maxed Oak's in the deck further throws the viability of your testing in question.
No decks at Battle Roads have had success with the card unless they have Reuniclus.
Twins has everything to do with the card. The fact you don't see this shows a mediocre understanding of the card. The entire reason google ran it was to be able to Twins for any card and Tropical Beach over Oak's in order to be able to get a big hand the same turn as using Twins. He didn't run it as a tech to help with early-game bad hands. That's what Cleffa is for.
No decks at Battle Roads have had success with the card unless they have Reuniclus.
Twins has everything to do with the card. The fact you don't see this shows a mediocre understanding of the card. The entire reason google ran it was to be able to Twins for any card and Tropical Beach over Oak's in order to be able to get a big hand the same turn as using Twins. He didn't run it as a tech to help with early-game bad hands. That's what Cleffa is for.
Celebi23 said:
For the record I hate Cleffa. I have no need for a 30 HP basic that can give my opponent a T1 win. If you like playing it that's fine it's my preference to not play Cleffa, and more often than not Cleffa starts do pretty poorly against me. Second how is maxed Oak's a bad thing, which has changed in preparations for next set. Also I have topped at a BR event, and most of the matches I have lost end up with me having the random 1 basic horrible start I get with a deck.
EDIT: Twins does help consistency. That I admit, but it is in no way mandatory. It helps, but it isn't necessary. And yes Tropical Beach isn't used for the same purpose in every deck, but that's why I play it.
Topping a BR means absolutely nothing. To have respectable success at such a low-level tournament, you have to win 2-3 Battle Roads. Topping Worlds is an accomplishment. Topping a Battle Roads is not.
It's also funny how every deck in top 16 at worlds had Cleffa. Obviously it's not as bad as you think it is.
Maxed Oak's is in general not bad, but combined with a Stage 2 line and Ninetales it is. You'll basically never be able to hit Typhlosion+Rare Candy off of it, and with Ninetales it just runs the risk of throwing away a huge hand for the off-chance you hit the one card you need. A couple Oak's is not bad, maybe even 3, but Juniper is preferred by most players and Sage's should obviously be maxed. Juniper and Sage give you the best chance of hitting that key Stage 2 + Candy, and fast setup is crucial, especially in mirror.
It's also funny how every deck in top 16 at worlds had Cleffa. Obviously it's not as bad as you think it is.
Maxed Oak's is in general not bad, but combined with a Stage 2 line and Ninetales it is. You'll basically never be able to hit Typhlosion+Rare Candy off of it, and with Ninetales it just runs the risk of throwing away a huge hand for the off-chance you hit the one card you need. A couple Oak's is not bad, maybe even 3, but Juniper is preferred by most players and Sage's should obviously be maxed. Juniper and Sage give you the best chance of hitting that key Stage 2 + Candy, and fast setup is crucial, especially in mirror.
Have you played it in TyRam, if not then stop saying stuff without trying it. If you have then perhaps your playstyle is different than mine. Second theoretically, yes a deck should be set-up by T2, but that is rare for a deck to be that consistent, and I have never seen a deck that was that consistent. Also I've played a few ZPSt decks, and TyRam decks where my opponent uses it more or about the same amount as I do in the given match, and just because it tries to be fast doesn't mean that it always is, which is my point. Also Tropical Beach is in there to make my deck more consistent, and it helps.
Finally my point is that one shouldn't criticize a card, or to specify a niche card like Tropical Beach. It works for some players and not for others, but saying it is a bad card in a specific deck in every situation just annoys me. I understand that you don't think it works and I can accept that, but don't go slamming others, because they have an opposing idea.
EDIT again: @ Celebi
I only brought up my topping at BR as evidence that it has worked, also I never said that Cleffa is a bad card, only that I don't playing it, an effort that has yet to put me a giant disadvantage.
Also say that PONT thing to the consistent hands I get that allow me to evolve straight into 1 or two Typhlosions, and ironically enough lead into an even better hand with Tropical Beach.
Finally my point is that one shouldn't criticize a card, or to specify a niche card like Tropical Beach. It works for some players and not for others, but saying it is a bad card in a specific deck in every situation just annoys me. I understand that you don't think it works and I can accept that, but don't go slamming others, because they have an opposing idea.
EDIT again: @ Celebi
I only brought up my topping at BR as evidence that it has worked, also I never said that Cleffa is a bad card, only that I don't playing it, an effort that has yet to put me a giant disadvantage.
Also say that PONT thing to the consistent hands I get that allow me to evolve straight into 1 or two Typhlosions, and ironically enough lead into an even better hand with Tropical Beach.