Help Turbo Darkrai - Expanded

N7Goku

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hey everyone, just looking for deck assistance.

Pokemon - 11

Trainer Cards - 38
  • Battle Compressor x3
  • Dark Patch x4
  • Computer Search x1
  • Escape Rope x1
  • VS Seeker x4
  • Fighting Fury Belt x2
  • Hypnotoxic Laser x3
  • Guzma x2
  • Field Blower x1
  • Max Elixer x4
  • N x2
  • Hex Maniac x1
  • Professor Juniper x4
  • Choice Band x2
  • Ultra Ball x4

Energy - 11
  • Darkness Energy x11

Concerns I have, or things I can see being an issue are:
  • Cards that prevent damage from Ex/Gx cards.
  • Maybe add another Lele?
  • Also playing with the idea of -1 Juniper +1 Acerola
 
- Run Dowsing Machine over CPU Search. You can reuse Max Elixirs, Dark patches etc...
- I would drop one Dark Cloak for another Dark Pulse as its your main attacker.
- For Safegaurders and such, run an XY Yveltal which can also bring back energy.
- Keldeo EX isnt really needed, you have free retreat anways.
- Maybe a 3rd Darkrai GX, you want them when you need them. Having more is good.
- Instead of the second Lele, I'd suggest a Jirachi EX since it can be grabbed by Hoopa EX
- Also get rid of the Lasers. Add in a Malamar EX in order to use the GX attack on Darkrai GX.
- Stadiums? Best option would probably be Sky Field
- Get rid of a Juniper, 3 is fine
- and lastly, I would up Energy to 12 or 13
 
- Run Dowsing Machine over CPU Search. You can reuse Max Elixirs, Dark patches etc...
- I would drop one Dark Cloak for another Dark Pulse as its your main attacker.
- For Safegaurders and such, run an XY Yveltal which can also bring back energy.
- Keldeo EX isnt really needed, you have free retreat anways.
- Maybe a 3rd Darkrai GX, you want them when you need them. Having more is good.
- Instead of the second Lele, I'd suggest a Jirachi EX since it can be grabbed by Hoopa EX
- Also get rid of the Lasers. Add in a Malamar EX in order to use the GX attack on Darkrai GX.
- Stadiums? Best option would probably be Sky Field
- Get rid of a Juniper, 3 is fine
- and lastly, I would up Energy to 12 or 13

Thank you, I will take all of this into consideration.
 
A few thoughts for your consideration:
  • Why run Keldeo EX if you are not running Float Stones?
  • Why run Hypnotoxic Laser if you are not running Virbank City Gym?
  • I typically run a minimum of 13 Basic energy when I run 3-4 Max Elixirs with an expectation of hitting 3 Max Elixirs 90% of the time (my personal objective). You'll further reduce your chances of hitting the Max Elixirs when you Battle Compressor away Dark energy and Darkrai GXs. This will be an inherent "conflict of interest", IMO.
  • I concur with @FlavorfulPineApl in that replacing 1 Dark Cloak Darkrai EX with another Dark Pulse Darkrai EX.
Suggested deck changes:

-1 Darkra EX (Dark Cloak)
-2 Choice Band - IMO, the FFBs and Ht Lasers will be more effective
-1 Escape Rope - not really needed
-1 Field Blower - a 1-of will not make that much difference
-1 Hex Maniac - as a priority, this would be consider "low," especially given your Pokémon's Abilities
-4 Max Elixir - not really needed

+1 Darkrai EX (Dark Pulse)
+1 Yveltal (Oblivion Wing) - to recover and attach discarded Dark energy
+2 Float Stone - ofr your Keldeo EX
+1 Parallel City - to remove unneeded/unwanted liabilities from your bench
+3 Trainer's Mail - to help you get setup faster
+2 Virbank City Gym
I hope you find these comments helpful.
 
A few thoughts for your consideration:
  • Why run Keldeo EX if you are not running Float Stones?

Obviously, this isn't my deck, but I can answer this question quite easily: you attach a [D] Energy to Keldeo-EX, and so you do not need the Float Stone. In fact, this is the original combo, as Float Stone first released in BW: Plasma Freeze, but we got Keldeo-EX in BW: Boundaries Crossed (two sets earlier) and Darkrai-EX in BW: Dark Explorers (two sets before Keldeo-EX).

  • Why run Hypnotoxic Laser if you are not running Virbank City Gym?


Because you just need a Special Condition for "Dead End-GX" to score an automatic OHKO. Extra damage counters for that would be meaningless. Not saying Virbank City Gym should or shouldn't be considered, or that Hypnotoxic Laser should or shouldn't be dropped.

  • I typically run a minimum of 13 Basic energy when I run 3-4 Max Elixirs with an expectation of hitting 3 Max Elixirs 90% of the time (my personal objective). You'll further reduce your chances of hitting the Max Elixirs when you Battle Compressor away Dark energy and Darkrai GXs. This will be an inherent "conflict of interest", IMO.


The strategies clash, but it is mild. Reliably hitting your Max Elixir versus reliably getting a boost from Darkrai-GX... which is more important? Again, I don't know, I'm just pointing out I see it quite often in other decks. Battle Compressor is also used for other forms of deck thinning, which can ultimately improve your odds with Max Elixir.

  • I concur with @FlavorfulPineApl in that replacing 1 Dark Cloak Darkrai EX with another Dark Pulse Darkrai EX.

I see the 2-2 split quite frequently; honestly, all the Darkrai-based cards seem to share attack duties. Then again, I enjoy running Night March, so if Darkrai-players want to remove the Darkrai-EX I really fear, s'good news for me. ;)
 
Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated. More thoughts:
  • Understanding that one can attach a Dark energy to the Keldeo EX in order to effectuate a free retreat could could negatively impact Darkrai GX's or Darkrai EX (Dark Cloak) attack readiness. So, are more Basic energy needed?
  • In playing against this deck a few times, the Dead End was never used. As I have seen, getting Dark energy into play via Darkrai GX's Restoration Ability has been the most effective use of this Pokémon since It can boost the main attacker's Dark Pulse damage output "quickly." If the intent is to "rely" upon a Dead End attack at some point, then why not replace 1 of the Lasers with a Skyla in order to ensure you can more easily access a Laser? Otherwise, the 3-count seems to me that a Laser may be used for other purposes too.
  • IMO, Dark Patch has a much higher certainty of success (and mostly are sufficient enough); whereas the Max Elixirs, without Trainer's Mail, will not, especially when you need to discard some Dark energy for Restoration. To me, this is more than a "mild" conflict of interest.
  • Clearly, Dark Impulse Darkrai EX is the most efficient attacker of the group. Can you afford to really run just 2?
 
- Run Dowsing Machine over CPU Search. You can reuse Max Elixirs, Dark patches etc...
- I would drop one Dark Cloak for another Dark Pulse as its your main attacker.
- For Safegaurders and such, run an XY Yveltal which can also bring back energy.
- Keldeo EX isnt really needed, you have free retreat anways.
- Maybe a 3rd Darkrai GX, you want them when you need them. Having more is good.
- Instead of the second Lele, I'd suggest a Jirachi EX since it can be grabbed by Hoopa EX
- Also get rid of the Lasers. Add in a Malamar EX in order to use the GX attack on Darkrai GX.
- Stadiums? Best option would probably be Sky Field
- Get rid of a Juniper, 3 is fine
- and lastly, I would up Energy to 12 or 13

Agreed pretty sound advice. I don't see Colress though. I'd cut one juniper and add colress. With skyfield in play colress can draw you an absurd about of cards.
 
Agreed pretty sound advice. I don't see Colress though. I'd cut one juniper and add colress. With skyfield in play colress can draw you an absurd about of cards.
Agreed. It defenitly can net you a lot of Max Eixirs or Dark Patches. A problem I sometimes have is drawing into a lot of energy, therefore I cant use my Max elixirs.
 
Okay, back after playing with the deck myself a bit. Glad I presented most of my stuff as "Well, here is what I am seeing..." or "Here is why someone might do that..." so that they can be technically true/plausible/etc. because I ended up going with something a lot closer to what y'all suggested. Not that it should come as a surprise; my previous experience was mostly in facing the deck, and then I was mostly facing it with Night March.

Posting what I've been running for comparison's sake. Someone wants to suggest something, go ahead, but this is @N7Goku 's party.

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 13

* 2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77
* 1 Darkrai-EX LTR 88
* 3 Darkrai-EX BKP 74
* 3 Darkrai-GX BUS 88
* 1 Malamar-EX PHF 58
* 1 Marshadow-GX BUS 80
* 1 Hoopa-EX AOR 36
* 1 Oricorio GRI 56

##Trainer Cards - 34

* 1 Colress PLS 118
* 1 Hex Maniac AOR 75
* 4 Ultra Ball PLB 90
* 3 Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear PHF 92
* 2 Guzma BUS 115
* 4 Max Elixir BKP 102
* 2 Fighting Fury Belt BKP 99
* 3 Sky Field ROS 89
* 4 Dark Patch DEX 93
* 1 Field Blower GRI 125
* 3 Professor Sycamore XY 122
* 1 Dowsing Machine PLS 128
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 1 N DEX 96

##Energy - 13

* 13 Darkness Energy Energy 7

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
 
I've played Turbo Dark on PTCGO these past few months and one thing I notice is that I don't really need Hex Maniac. I seldom run into a situation where it's important. Instead, I replaced it with Karen because otherwise Shadow-March becomes auto lose. Also Sudowoodo is fairly important for the mirror too.
 
I've played Turbo Dark on PTCGO these past few months and one thing I notice is that I don't really need Hex Maniac. I seldom run into a situation where it's important. Instead, I replaced it with Karen because otherwise Shadow-March becomes auto lose. Also Sudowoodo is fairly important for the mirror too.

Hex Maniac may not be the best card for the deck, but I will explain what might make it handy... and what did make it handy for me on the PTCGO (though another card might have been better). This is not proof! I am just presenting data.
  • First turn, this is still a good way to disrupt an opponent. Some decks don't need any Abilities on their first turn but seem like most either want to drop something with a setup-related Ability or have that as their fallback option if they whiff on a Supporter. In a sense, it is like Ghetsis.
  • Plenty of decks need Abilities; a turn without them usually hurts a little, if not a lot.
  • An answer to Hoopa (Shining Legends).
  • Night March decks are getting better at fighting Karen, as are the Night March players. Oricorio is probably the better answer unless you need the Pokémon recycling yourself. Yes, I beat a Night March deck featuring Marshadow-GX without having Karen in my decklist. Hex Maniac can help here. ;)
  • I didn't encounter Sudowoodo in any of my mirror-matches. If you have a mediocre (or worse) setup, it hurts... but if it doesn't show up soon, it probably won't matter. Or did you mean BKP instead of GRI? I really am liking Marshadow-GX for the mirror myself. As long as I don't need to Hex Maniac that turn. XP
Again, I may have just been lucky in any of these that are about what I faced.
 
The only deck that I can think of, based on my experience, that rely heavily on abilities and is detrimental to this deck is bats. All other abilities may slow me down a bit, but never really hurt it significantly. To be honest, my main goal is setting up as opposed to disruption. The only time I feel disruption is necessary is if it can knock a Pokemon out or if it doesn't cost a supporter. It might slow your opponent down, but to me, that implies you're in it for the long game, whereas with Turbo Dark, you're focusing on a shorter game.

Also I can't back this up with data, but from what I observe, Karen isn't a popular add-in to Turbo Dark. While Night Marchers might play conservatively, it seems like they still get caught off guard. Usually when I get one or two off, they scoop immediately.

As for Hoopa, the way I was able to get around it is with Yvetal. When I see Hoopa on the field, that's when I know to focus on their other bench Pokemon (via Guzma), and if it comes down to the wire, just load up an Yvetal. Usually I'm able to fully load it a turn or two after dropping it on the field.

That's just my opinion though; if you feel better running Hex, all the power to you.

I do agree with your assertion on Sudowoodo; now that I think about it, I've only run into a handful of Turbo Dark players, as well as had the card played against me, and I was always able to get out of it. I will substitute it with Marshadow next time I log on.
 
@Grey Matter


I am glad we can agree on some things, and I will add, I'm not convinced that Hex Maniac is the way to go. I selected the highest placing, recent Turbo Darkrai list I could find. It used Hex Maniac and did not use Yveltal. I invite you to research how things went at Daytona; almost all decks use Abilities and at times will need them. Doesn't mean I can afford to use Hex Maniac during those times, but it has won games for me before.

I definitely think you need more experience against Night March. It isn't the most exclusive of decks, especially on the PTCGO. I know it may sound like "No True Scotsman", but I really think you were facing Night March players who either
  • Didn't know how to handle Karen or Oricorio yet.
  • Didn't have what they needed to handle Karen or Oricorio
  • Just were tired of Karen and Oricorio XD
  • Oh... and we should allow that an unrecognized misplay, Prized card, etc. may have happened without you knowing it.
Karen isn't super easy to get on the PTCGO, but I recall seeing her and/or Oricorio quite a bit. Most Night March decks should have Marshadow-GX and/or Zoroark-GX in them. Either way, they also know now not to burn through all their Battle Compressor, Professor Juniper, or Ultra Ball. This matters because it is the opposite of how the deck used to play, where you tended to thin like a madman to counter an opponent's N or Item lock.
 
I haven't looked at the Daytona results since I think they were delayed a bit and my interest passed by the time there was anything. What were some abilities that were heavily in use? I'll admit, my perspective may be skewed since my play lately has been confined to PTCGO. Or alternatively, can you suggest articles/resources to look into from the event?

A question I have regarding Ocorio is how much does it really help? For them to knock out your support (not using Marshadow), they need to have 9 marchers in the graveyard. If they're playing conservatively, I can't imagine knocking out as many of their bench as I'd like. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong though, what's your experience?

As for Karen on PTCGO, it's not that hard to get as you might expect. I got 4x for I think 2 Burning Shadow packs.
 
I haven't looked at the Daytona results since I think they were delayed a bit and my interest passed by the time there was anything. What were some abilities that were heavily in use? I'll admit, my perspective may be skewed since my play lately has been confined to PTCGO. Or alternatively, can you suggest articles/resources to look into from the event?

How familiar are you with the PokéBeach rules about linking to other unofficial, commercial Pokémon websites? I thought that wasn't allowed here. Not that I could help you out much; I simply went to a particular website that specializes in listing how well decks placed at events, usually focused on the Masters Age Bracket. What I saw matched up to my PTCGO experiences more than your stated experiences. It is possible that Daytona was abnormal, but I'm just thinking we disagree on how valuable it is to deny your opponent access to the Abilities of cards like Shaymin-EX (ROS), Tapu Lele-GX, etc. I will also remind you that I'm not championing Hex Maniac, just explaining that you might be underrating it a bit for the deck. A bit.

A question I have regarding Ocorio is how much does it really help? For them to knock out your support (not using Marshadow), they need to have 9 marchers in the graveyard. If they're playing conservatively, I can't imagine knocking out as many of their bench as I'd like. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong though, what's your experience?

This... will be quite lengthy. Just going to spoiler tag it so it doesn't seem as overwhelming.

Oricorio is usually used to
  1. Push for the win by KOing two or more Prizes worth of targets on your opponent's side of the field; remember that Oricorio can hit Benched targets and places damage counters based on all Pokémon in your opponent's discard pile, not just Night Marchers.
  2. Take a key KO or KO's, and in doing so, disrupting your opponent's setup. A typical example is taking out Joltik (PHF) so that Mew (FCO) cannot copy it, or multiple Night Marchers so that you just need a final, typical OHKO of the opponent's Active to win.
  3. Intimidate your opponent, so he or she settles for weaker attacks than usual.
Marshadow-GX needs at least one Joltik and four other Night March Pokémon in your opponent's discard to OHKO Darkrai-EX (either version) or Darkrai-GX for a Double Colorless Energy. Of course, Marshadow-GX might have a Fighting Fury Belt or the like, but then again, so might Darkrai-EX. Now, this is not a difficult threshold for a competent Night March deck to meet, but notice something; they are scoring a OHKO against Darkrai-EX with a 150 HP, two-Prize Pokémon. While not a highly probable OHKO, Dark Pulse just needs six [D] Energy in play to OHKO Marshadow-GX. OHKO versus OHKO, both with two Prize Pokémon, and whoever started the process first wins.

Night March hates that. The deck is meant to trade single-Prize attackers for OHKOs. You said that only nine Night March Pokémon were needed in the discard pile to accomplish this, but let us remember what all that entails. Joltik on the field and attacking, if it is trying to OHKO a Darkrai-EX. It also carries the risk that a player can get the original Darkrai-EX up front to attack with Night Spear... while also sniping a Benched Joltik. Guzma or Escape Rope can make sure a formerly Active Joltik is heading to the Bench.

If Pumpkaboo (PHF) or Mew are attacking, they would actually need 10 Night Marcher Pokémon in the discard pile, to overcome Psychic Resistance when attacking into Darkrai-EX. Pumpkaboo also needs Dimension Valley or a third Energy. Again, they might have Choice Band, Fighting Fury Belt, or Muscle Band equipped, but Darkrai-EX might have Fighting Fury Belt itself; I try to focus on the naked matchup, at least at first. One of the reasons I wish I had room for Yveltal (XY) is because it can OHKO Pumpkaboo for a single Energy while accelerating Energy to something else. Nine Night March Pokémon in the discard pile is 75% of them; 10 is approximately 83%.

We'll now put it all together, working from my most recent bits. For Night March to attack with Pumpkaboo, not only does it have the usual concerns, but it needs all but two Night Marchers in the discard pile. One of those must be itself, so there is no room for error, and it becomes easy pickings for Oricorio or Yveltal. Mew fares almost as poorly; while it lacks Darkness Weakness, it only has 50 HP and requires another Night Marcher on the Bench, enabling double OHKO's and sometimes more! Joltik continues the trend; while your opponent won't need another Night Marcher benched, with just 30 HP it feeds into more multi-KO's, still has to worry about Yveltal, but also adds in a Shaymin-EX Sky Return to remove a juicy target from the backfield of the Turb Darkrai player. Marshadow-GX has to hit hard and fast but with a moderate amount of Night Marchers in the discard pile, which stops working if Yveltal or Yveltal-EX are in the deck, or if the deck runs Shadow Circle and can keep it in play, or if the deck runs Karen. Hex Maniac at the right time can leave the modern Night March unable to attack.

This is not to say that the matchup is in Turbo Darkrai's favor; having been on both sides of it, I'd say that without the semi-specific counters to each other, it favors Night March, but not dramatically. Hoopa-EX and/or Shaymin-EX getting OHKO'd creates an opening Night March will almost certainly exploit. When Night march does reach OHKO levels againts Turbo Darkrai, it only need to do so three times in most matches... less any early OHKO's against supporting stuff. We haven't even gotten into supplemental tricks, like Tauros-GX with a Fighting Fury Belt, Marshadow-GX with a Focus Sash, or the nasty Marshadow-GX with a Focus Sash and Tauros-GX in the discard pile. XP

Whew, sorry that was so long!

As for Karen on PTCGO, it's not that hard to get as you might expect. I got 4x for I think 2 Burning Shadow packs.

Let me clarify: "Super easy" is something available without trading. Sadly, a lot of folks are bad at trading in the PTCGO. Like, really bad. Karen is available what, through a Battle Arena deck released last year and in an expensive gift set with a bunch of other alternate art cards? You can't get here through spending Tokens on a Theme Deck or (lucky) booster pack. Unless they have her in the Chests, she's probably going to become harder to get, not easier, as time goes on. Well, unless she falls out of favor.
 
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