Hello everyone! So, Volcanion looks poised to be a very good deck in the new standard format still, but I'm just wondering which partner you guys prefer with it - Turtonator GX or Ho-oh GX (or both?)
Discussion Turtonator vs. Ho-oh in Volcanion
- Thread starter Digital Dragon
- Start date
I'm honestly starting to prefer Turtonator over Ho-oh right now. Sure, Ho-oh has a stronger burst with its second move and has fewer conditions for knocking out the bulkier Pokemon in the meta, but Turtonator has much stronger mid-range options. Turtonator can attach Energy to its allies freely for 1 Energy, and his 2nd move is easier to use repeatedly while staying out of range of Gardevoir-GX's attacks. Even if your short on Energy, Shell Trap is a fantastic move on its own with Volcanion-EX as an ally. With Volcanion-EX around, you should be able to average 50 - 110 damage per attack plus an additional 80 if you're opponent doesn't have Pokemon Ranger or Guzma.
Personally, if I had to use both, I would want to include more copies of Turtonator-GX due to it having more flexibility, but if I was expecting more Ninetales-GX or Gardevoir-GX, I would use Ho-oh-GX for the extra burst damage and lack of a Water weakness.
Personally, if I had to use both, I would want to include more copies of Turtonator-GX due to it having more flexibility, but if I was expecting more Ninetales-GX or Gardevoir-GX, I would use Ho-oh-GX for the extra burst damage and lack of a Water weakness.
Why not both one provides a better attacker against gardevoir and really good acceleration and and the other unprecedented power and the main target for kiawe
Thank you for the input. I really like both of their effects, but using Sabakus advice I think I would do 2 Turtonator and maybe one Ho-oh. I really appreciate how you explained it!
You're always going to have the problem of deck space, and unlike last year, we can't cheat out of it with Vs. Seekers (not that there's much difference card count-wise, but still...). You're gonna have folks that want to tech for other match-ups or shore up on a certain card or two because of the prize system, so there's incentive to drop a card if it isn't pulling its weight.
I run 2x Turtonator and 1x Ho-oh.
Ho-oh is great for Kiawe, but you can slow set up Volcanion EX/Turtonator almost anytime else. Ho-oh is great for hitting hard early/late, while Turt is great to set-up whenever. I tend to set up Volcanions and Turtonators first, over Ho-oh, unless I get a first turn Kiawe.
Ho-oh is great for Kiawe, but you can slow set up Volcanion EX/Turtonator almost anytime else. Ho-oh is great for hitting hard early/late, while Turt is great to set-up whenever. I tend to set up Volcanions and Turtonators first, over Ho-oh, unless I get a first turn Kiawe.
IMO, in the Standard format, Turtonator GX is clearly a formidable attacker and a "force' for opponents to reckon with, more so than Volcanion EX for a variety of reasons including:
- Turtonator GX has 10 more HP which can truly make a difference at times; and its array of attacks can be used both defensively (Shell Trap) and offensively (Bright Flame and Nitro Tank);
- Turtonator X can more easily hit the "bigger" numbers (200+); and
- Turtonator GX's Nitro Tank attack provides energy-attachment which could lead to significantly enhancing one's board position.
I've actually preferred Ho-oh, but I'm starting to re-think this. Going first and using Kiawe on Ho-oh is such a great start. You're hitting for monster numbers t2. However, I'm finding in this format I'm usually ko'ing small basics that evolve up to stage 2s more often than not on t2 without a whole lot of anything else set up on the bench. So how I'm trying to pokemon ranger or guz a t3 to attack again, rather then use my supporter to help set up other pokemon in response to the inevitable Ho-oh KO. I'm thinking turtonator might be a better overall attacker.
I think Volcanion has become less of the focal point and more of the supporter in this deck. Offensively, Turtonator and Ho-Oh are just better. I'm running a modified version of the Ho-Oh/Turtonator/Volcanion/Salazzle deck that got 9th place at Worlds this year and it's so good. It has so many options without being clunky. Ho-Oh is your main attacker early game, Turtonator is best mid-game with Bright Flame and it's amazing GX attack to help set you up for late game, and once you've taken four prize cards, Salazzle OHKOs just about everything, especially with Choice Band or a Steam Up from Volcanion. I run 2 Volcanion EX for Steam Up and one baby Volcanion as a one-prize attacker that can also help accelerate energies onto the bench. The deck currently has 22 wins out of 24 games online and my brother took the deck to a tournament yesterday and came in first place.
Both, but Turt should be at a higher count. If you want to consistently get the t1 Kiawe you have to invest too heavily in Ho-ohs to improve your odds of a Ho-oh start. Just having one is decent for weakness matchups though.
Also just to be clear, Steam Up does not increase Salazzle's damage, it only increases the damage of basic fire types. Salazzle doesn't need the damage boost, it's only played late into the game when you have taken 4+ prize cards and it hits 200 damage, with band it OHKOs basically everything given that all of the 240/50 HP cards are grass or metal.
Also just to be clear, Steam Up does not increase Salazzle's damage, it only increases the damage of basic fire types. Salazzle doesn't need the damage boost, it's only played late into the game when you have taken 4+ prize cards and it hits 200 damage, with band it OHKOs basically everything given that all of the 240/50 HP cards are grass or metal.