'Unified Minds,' August's SM11 Set!

[K_la]

I'm not too sure of Pokemons marketing strategy. I buy packs and boxes impulsively to attain play sets of every card. Cognitive dissonance gets the best of me as I spend wrecklessly, full well knowing it's far more cost effective to buy cards individually... But eh my kids and I enjoy the mystery of opening them. But since these massive sets have come out my spending has significantly decreased and I buy the majority of my cards individually. I wonder how many others have crossed over to more rational spending habits?

 

[Scoop]

I'm not too sure of Pokemons marketing strategy. I buy packs and boxes impulsively to attain play sets of every card. Cognitive dissonance gets the best of me as I spend wrecklessly, full well knowing it's far more cost effective to buy cards individually... But eh my kids and I enjoy the mystery of opening them. But since these massive sets have come out my spending has significantly decreased and I buy the majority of my cards individually. I wonder how many others have crossed over to more rational spending habits?

I've been almost exclusively singles based since the start of Sun and Moon personally. Especially with lower pull rates, opening products or boxes just doesn't feel as good anymore and I almost always feel a sense of guilt that I just wasted my money on junk. My last box ever was the only time I ever felt really gypped by a booster box, whereas XY boxes all felt worthwhile at the time. Even in products like tins you could get great pulls (I've gotten some with 3 ultras back in XY). Nowadays though, I just buy what I want to get. It feels more like I'm getting what I paid for.

Sometimes getting products on sale is fun though, I bought three of those Lele boxes and had good luck in two of them, so sometimes there can be some fun.

 

[Scoop]

I bought them because I liked so many things in the set. Before that? I got Guardians Rising and Burning Shadows boxes by trading bulk. Didn't get any boxes in between those sets. There were... what, at least 4 sets between Burning Shadows and Lost Thunder? That's a full year of new sets. And I used to buy at least one box of every XY set as they released. Now, I'm not interested.

I got a box for every XY set from Roaring Skies to Fates, barring Breakpoint, and each and every single one of them was like a fun little tradition. (In fact, I bought Breakthrough on impulse because of how much fun I had with the roaring skies one). I was actively buying boxes then because of how much fun they were to opening and how much it progressed set completion for me. Even the ONE black and white era box (Boundaries Crossed, best set of the entire era) was fun even without the pull rates being the best (I got the gold Altaria and the full art White Kyurem though, BCR has always been nice to me). Every HOLO from that box felt like a fun event. There was just something so much fun out of it that my last box of sun and moon didnt have.

One of my favorite quotes is perfect for this situation: "You took fun and made it unfun! How'd you even do that?!"

I think it really does apply here for that situation honestly. It completely sums it up!

 

[TheRealBro..]

And of course, I might be biased but some of them are beautiful to look at, so I don't mind the hunt.

Agreed. The hunt is better than the catch (unfortunately that saying is true for more than just Pokemon). You have to have cards you 'want' to hunt though. This aspect was still alive in gens 5 and 6 with cool and unique secret rares. Now? not so much.

 

[Scoop]

Agreed. The hunt is better than the catch (unfortunately that saying is true for more than just Pokemon). You have to have cards you 'want' to hunt though. This aspect was still alive in gens 5 and 6 with cool and unique secret rares. Now? not so much.

I think that pretty much anywhere from gen 1 to gen 6 have cards that I want to hunt. I love WOTC holos, e-series (expedition is my baby I love that set), Gen 3, level Xs, no matter what it is they all have something great about them. Even holo patterns can be appealing (like BWs tinsel). But gen 7 just doesnt have the same...soul to it to me. Sure, maybe I'll collect it when it's all cheap because there's going to be barely any value in these cards once they rotate. Maybe I'll just skip Hyper Rares and Gold Items or something. It'll hurt me as a completionist but I couldn't be bothered.

 

[Skeleton Liar]

Let's not forget the Neo Revelation - Skyridge era where pulling a simple Holo still felt like hitting the jackpot, but you also had a chance of pulling a shiny/crystal. I think the Gen 5/6/7 EX/GX's are the problem. They kind of became the new basic chase cards (replacing Holo's), therefore creating an extra chase card layer and thus inflation.

And this why I find TPCi keeping regular rares to be pointless. Regular EX’s and GX’s became like pulling a holo, and pulling a holo is now like pulling a regular rare. Pulling a regular rare in a pack? What pack? You might as well have not opened anything and thrown your money to the wind. What’s the point of creating regular rares—Japanese sets haven’t had them for years—if even pulling a holo usually feels like a miss, akin to pulling a regular rare? It really does seem to be in order to keep the status quo of regular rares simply existing and to pad out a booster box. 2/3 of a box—23 to 24 packs—are regular rares and the remaining 12 to 13 packs are split between holos and the multitude of ultra rare levels. Which seems to imply that holos are on the same standing with ultra rares.

What I want to see is holos replacing regular rares, like in Shining Legends and Dragon Majesty. And if a card is too good to just be an uncommon like it is in the Japanese set, just ‘promote’ it up to holo, like they have been doing with regular rares. This could help the consumer feel less like a ‘miss’ pack was a complete waste while also slightly increasing ultra rare pull rates.

 

[Scoop]

What I want to see is holos replacing regular rares, like in Shining Legends and Dragon Majesty. And if a card is too good to just be an uncommon like it is in the Japanese set, just ‘promote’ it up to holo, like they have been doing with regular rares. This could help the consumer feel less like a ‘miss’ pack was a complete waste while also slightly increasing ultra rare pull rates.

Having holos per every pack would also solve a huge issue that post-breakpoint packs have.

The code cards ruining the fun of opening packs.

Part of the reason I like SL and (less so) DRM was because they were the first sets in a while that made pack openings fun. That surprise is a lot of the appeal of opening a pack. And yet, they decided to make generic varieties that ruin the surprise if you're not a kid who doesn't realise this.

Having holos be the new rare would also add to the collectible appeal of sets. It would allow for more enjoyable pack opening experiences without having that feeling of being gypped from getting horrible packs. Sure, it would make holos feel less special, but recently they haven't been anyways and I care enough to sleeve them all. It lets me look at the art and appreciate the card more instead of putting it in the bulk box.

 

[Frost]

I would guess their reasoning for not having normal holos be the new "rare" is cost to produce... or something. We've never seen it done outside of a special expansion where there's no booster box or cases of boxes to be bought. But when you're giving a reverse holo in every pack anyway, what's the difference really?

 

[Kangaflora]

The set name seems to suggest that it will focus on Psychic Pokémon. If so, then I only want to see an Abra and Alakazam card if a Kadabra card is released (otherwise, don't bother releasing an Abra or an Alakazam card). They can't avoid Kadabra forever.

 

[ShaQuL]

The set name seems to suggest that it will focus on Psychic Pokémon. If so, then I only want to see an Abra and Alakazam card if a Kadabra card is released (otherwise, don't bother releasing an Abra or an Alakazam card). They can't avoid Kadabra forever.

Ehh I wish they would but don't get your hopes up haha.

 

[Alex Leblanc]

to be completely honest, I really hope the Mew and Mewtwo TTGX is the BDIF bc I would love for that combo to do it. also maybe a versatile like ability‍

 

[TheRealBro..]

And this why I find TPCi keeping regular rares to be pointless. Regular EX’s and GX’s became like pulling a holo, and pulling a holo is now like pulling a regular rare. Pulling a regular rare in a pack? What pack? You might as well have not opened anything and thrown your money to the wind. What’s the point of creating regular rares—Japanese sets haven’t had them for years—if even pulling a holo usually feels like a miss, akin to pulling a regular rare? It really does seem to be in order to keep the status quo of regular rares simply existing and to pad out a booster box. 2/3 of a box—23 to 24 packs—are regular rares and the remaining 12 to 13 packs are split between holos and the multitude of ultra rare levels. Which seems to imply that holos are on the same standing with ultra rares.

What I want to see is holos replacing regular rares, like in Shining Legends and Dragon Majesty. And if a card is too good to just be an uncommon like it is in the Japanese set, just ‘promote’ it up to holo, like they have been doing with regular rares. This could help the consumer feel less like a ‘miss’ pack was a complete waste while also slightly increasing ultra rare pull rates.

Yes, exactly. Instead of 12 awesome holo's per box (like in the old days) you now get 6 GX's and 6 Holo's that feel like regular rares. I would even go as far as to say that regular GX's do not quite resemble what Holo's used to be because there are 2/3 layers of higher rarity above them. Sure, pulling a Charizard Holo was more awesome than pulling a Raichu (Base set) but the Raichu was still concidered a winner while a Regular GX is.. meh. Regular rares are pretty much uncommons now.

But gen 7 just doesnt have the same...soul to it to me.

Tell me about it. Pokemon is booming again and this gen shows it which is why, like Skeleton Liar said, I hold little hope for Gen 8

 

[Frans de Jong]

The set name seems to suggest that it will focus on Psychic Pokémon. If so, then I only want to see an Abra and Alakazam card if a Kadabra card is released (otherwise, don't bother releasing an Abra or an Alakazam card). They can't avoid Kadabra forever.

Im hoping for a Kadabra card too
The solution is perhaps change Kadabra's Japanese name and perhaps its design very little

 

[Animegamer420]

I hope rowlet and alolan exeggutor gx is good

Is that tag team or 2 seperate cards?

 

[TheAquaPiplup]

Is that tag team or 2 seperate cards?

It's a tag team

 

[Scoop]

Yes, exactly. Instead of 12 awesome holo's per box (like in the old days) you now get 6 GX's and 6 Holo's that feel like regular rares. I would even go as far as to say that regular GX's do not quite resemble what Holo's used to be because there are 2/3 layers of higher rarity above them. Sure, pulling a Charizard Holo was more awesome than pulling a Raichu (Base set) but the Raichu was still concidered a winner while a Regular GX is.. meh. Regular rares are pretty much uncommons now.

This is another instance where XY did something better than this era. Pull rates reflected the sets in later XY. They were aware of the sets being a little heavy, so what do they do? Make pull rates higher. In my roaring skies box, I remember this, I got a complete common/uncommon/rare set (besides mega turbo for some reason), 3 normal EXs, 3 Full arts, and one of the two secrets. And add on the holos I got to that too. Although there was a decent chunk of the set left, I felt like opening that box was both worthwhile and actually progressing my completion of the set. The same goes for every other XY box I opened. Even the holos felt nice because it was going towards completion, same with my boundaries crossed box. Holos felt GREAT to get back then for me.

But what's funny about it is that every single ultra rare I pulled felt like a victory. Even though I pulled a Shaymin, the other two EXs I got still gave me a lot of excitement. Compare that to nowadays where some GXs don't feel GOOD to pull. They just feel kinda whatever. I remember opening sun and moon and I got Umbreon, Lapras, Primarina, Incineroar, Lurantis full art and Kukui full art. Apart from the Kukui I was just kinda "okay cool" about it and every holo felt like it was taking away from the chance of me getting anything good. I was not at all happy with it. I wasn't getting anything crazy, I didn't pull something incredible like a gold UB or a hyper rare. And that's like you said where the problem lies. These rarity tiers. If this era didn't have those, then like I said it would have been a really good era I think. Now I have to debate on whether or not I'm going to give in and be a completionist or just ignore gold items and hypers altogether. Because I can't just SKIP an entire era, and I don't mind normal GXs at all. But because of these rarity tiers nowadays they're making it feel so much less worthwhile than it was before where you could feel actual PROGRESSION. At least not really doing much right now for collecting in this era means I dont have to keep up, and I get to work on old stuff. I mean hey, I got to finish the BW full arts. That's the pride of my collection. I got to finish the Primes, I got to finish Base Set. And that in the end is what I love about collecting, it's the hunt for old cards. It's like entering a completely new world sometimes.

Tell me about it. Pokemon is booming again and this gen shows it which is why, like Skeleton Liar said, I hold little hope for Gen 8

I want to be hopeful but I agree that theres not much hope at all. If they don't change their ways then I'm going to just set it in stone that I'm not dealing with anything that's like Hypers or gold items. They're too cheap looking in a binder full of cards with actual effort put into them.

 

[TheRealBro..]

Although there was a decent chunk of the set left, I felt like opening that box was both worthwhile and actually progressing my completion of the set. The same goes for every other XY box I opened. Even the holos felt nice because it was going towards completion, same with my boundaries crossed box. Holos felt GREAT to get back then for me.

Indeed, same with a set like Phantom Forces. Buy three boxes and you can actually pretty much complete the set, safe for 1 or 2 secret rares. And for some reason some Holo's in that era still were somewhat cool (although I miss Galaxy Holofoil!)

But what's funny about it is that every single ultra rare I pulled felt like a victory. Even though I pulled a Shaymin, the other two EXs I got still gave me a lot of excitement. Compare that to nowadays where some GXs don't feel GOOD to pull. They just feel kinda whatever. I remember opening sun and moon and I got Umbreon, Lapras, Primarina, Incineroar, Lurantis full art and Kukui full art.

I'll take that a step further. I pulled a Lapras GX from my Sun Moon box and thought; okay, next pack. Then I pulled a Lurantis Rainbow Rare and thought, aah okay.. Not too bad.. What does that tell you. Stopped collecting after this too, with the exception of Shining Legends for obvious reasons.

 

[Scoop]

Indeed, same with a set like Phantom Forces. Buy three boxes and you can actually pretty much complete the set, safe for 1 or 2 secret rares. And for some reason some Holo's in that era still were somewhat cool (although I miss Galaxy Holofoil!)

Holos in BW and XY were definitely very cool (I like Tinsel the most, it was the best looking foiling IMO, with Galaxy close behind). And the fact that just being able to DO that, get a few boxes, get the last few singles you need and you've completed the set. It's encouraging in a way, and I feel like if anything it's good business too. It gets people wanting to buy more packs in case they get that LAST card they need. I know back when I opened up sets in 2014-15 that feeling of getting a specific few cards I needed felt like a victory in itself.

I'll take that a step further. I pulled a Lapras GX from my Sun Moon box and thought; okay, next pack. Then I pulled a Lurantis Rainbow Rare and thought, aah okay.. Not too bad.. What does that tell you. Stopped collecting after this too, with the exception of Shining Legends for obvious reasons.

Right, it took me a while but I definitely feel that too nowadays. I pulled a hyper Virizion from one of my Lele boxes, but what made me more excited was the ultras I got from XY sets. The full art Steven was just so much more rewarding since I needed that one for my ancient Origins set. Meanwhile Virizion didn't give me that feeling of progression. I was happy to PULL it, I'm not going to be ungrateful for the odds but I'm not getting that same mental response.

I think shining legends had that feeling though, and every time I pulled a shining it felt rewarding.

 

[Oddish22]

About the holo/UR discussion:

I actually never tried to complete sets, but I never aim for FA, RR, SR anyway. I would be happy to complete a set and forgetting the rainbow rares and golden items/stadiums. It would still feel complete to me. You'd need to open 20(?, probably more) boxes to complete all the SR. I don't think the rainbow rares will stay.

The holos. Yes, they feel worth less, but they are also sometimes harder to get than GX cards. There are more holos than GX cards in a set - Team Up had 19/11. So imagine if you don't want to buy single cards, it's often harder to get a specific holo than getting a specific GX. My last two boxes had 5 holos, 4 GX and 2 FA/RR/SR each.

So the problem are not the holos as cards, but the numbers, also of GX and their versions. If a GX is an ultra rare, a holo is an ultra rare too. If a holo isn't, a GX isn't.
So it's basically 9 holos+GX (same category) + 2-3 (if you're lucky) special cards.
The ways to fix this are:
a) Having MUCH fewer "UR" cards. 2-5 special cards, not 38 (in Team Up). How secret is a FA/RR/SR, if it is 1/38? And you need to open 30 boxes at 120-130 € each?
b) Having similar ratios, but smaller sets. 196 cards/3 = 65.33 > Jungle, and still 12.66 special cards. Still too many.
c) Different rates? 1 holo/GX every second pack could work. Then caving a rare in every pack, even if you a holo/GX/FA etc. could also work.
I would conclude, the ratios need to be completely changed, then the big set size (like in e series) is no problem either.
Team Up: 196 cards: 31 rares, 19 holos, 11 GX, 38 special cards (FA, RR, SR items)
Skyridge: 182 cards: 35 rares, 32 holos, 6 special cards
So if you'd make it like Skyridge the correct ratios for Team Up would be: 38 rares, 35 holos+GX (e. g. 25 holos, 10 GX), less than 10 special cards (maybe 5-6 FA, 3-4 SR). Then having 36 packs, you'd have 36 rares, 7-8 holos, 2-3 GX, 2 FA+SR. You'd need 4-5 boxes to complete.
Or 36 rares, 13-14 holos, 3-4 GX, 2 FA+SR. I would like that the most. Then, but only then, there could also be a few more FA, but the in my opinion you should have many more holos than special cards in the set and in a box, not twice as many special cards as holos.

 

[Frost]

I don't think the rainbow rares will stay.

This is the viewpoint almost everyone (including me) wants, but it's also probably the naive one. </3