Unoriginality
- Thread starter kravenace
- Start date
Agreed. Though SubZero is a great original combo maker. I have to make do with what I have. Otherwise, people just couldn't be bothered.
I for one have always been against netdecking, archetypes to an extend.
If you really are that unoriginal to have to copy a deck, I think you should also at least thank the person who made the deck...
I know you still need "skill", but with some archetypes coughLBScough you could just go ahead and follow the strategy, just look at worlds 10- 1st 3 places, those kids just follow a strategy. (top 3 of worlds 10-: all similar LBS decks, only some trainers were different)
One specific thing which made me sick was the fact that when I was walking around in worlds, and looked at the grinder tables, the 1st 3 or 4 tables were LBS vs LBS at times... (luckily this was not the case for the main event
)
If you do use an archetype, try to at least surprise your opponent with some techs, or at least don't just copy a decklist, but try finding what suits it best.
If you really are that unoriginal to have to copy a deck, I think you should also at least thank the person who made the deck...
I know you still need "skill", but with some archetypes coughLBScough you could just go ahead and follow the strategy, just look at worlds 10- 1st 3 places, those kids just follow a strategy. (top 3 of worlds 10-: all similar LBS decks, only some trainers were different)
One specific thing which made me sick was the fact that when I was walking around in worlds, and looked at the grinder tables, the 1st 3 or 4 tables were LBS vs LBS at times... (luckily this was not the case for the main event
)If you do use an archetype, try to at least surprise your opponent with some techs, or at least don't just copy a decklist, but try finding what suits it best.
IMO if you copy decks of the net without adding a bit of originality, other people might find a way around your deck. Example: LBS =D. Everyone tried to find a way around that deck and many counters were made. Rai-eggs one of them.
Also, Pokemon TCG might get really boring if the same deck is used by everyone =-=. But i have to admit, you have to get some ideas from the net.
Also, Pokemon TCG might get really boring if the same deck is used by everyone =-=. But i have to admit, you have to get some ideas from the net.
My main deck may be an Archtype, but that doesn't mean I don't think of original decks. For the archtypes I do use, I change them and add my own little twists to the deck to make it my own. I also use rouges. In fact, I have several books filled with rouge deck lists because I see alot of different combos, but I will only ever build one or two of them per book. Some of these ideas may also be from the net, but then I change it to go with the way I play, so I make the deck my own.
I haven’t ever taken a list card for card and tried to play it in a competitive event, but I have gotten ideas from them and even checked decks I’ve built against posted lists and made changes based on that.
But I don’t get why some folks bash netdeckers so much. It just seems incredibly obvious to me that being able to build original decks and being able to play the game are two different skill sets. Inevitably some folks are going to be better at one than the other. Yes the very best and most experienced players in the game will be skilled at both but they are going to be a tiny fraction of the population of players as a whole. The bulk of other players are simply not going to be experts at building or playing, though they may have some degree of skill at one or the other.
A person who wants to win will seek to get better at both gameplay and deckbuilding but it’s simply unrealistic to expect them to be skilled overnight ... and it’s equally unrealistic to expect folks, skilled or not, to ignore new deck ideas that win. OF COURSE folks are going to look for lists that have won even if they don’t intend to copy it card for card. If they want to get better it’s the logical thing to do. Those of us who aren’t expert builders yet learn from these things and the folks who are more expert can sometimes glean a new bit of insight as well.
And it’s worth pointing out that some folks may NEVER be able to learn how to build a really good deck ... or they might develop into amazing deckbuilders but have terrible gameplay skills. Why call out these folks if they are doing the best that they can given their experience and talent? I can see how netdecking could become a crutch, hindering a persons growth as a player, but the simple fact is that not all players will have the skill to be experts.
Playing Pokemon is about winning and having fun. Using net lists doesn’t hinder the fun for the person doing it and it may lead to them winning more which is fun for them too. Yeah the person who created a “great list” may get upset when they do poorly with it but some other random person wins something with the exact same list ... but really they should be using that anger constructively as incentive to improve their own play skills. And they should also realize that their list winning, even in someone else’s hands, is a testament to their own building skills and be proud of that.
What bothers me a *lot* more than netdecking is the oppressive air of secrecy about decklists that permeates the Pokemon scene. This combined with the “leet” attitude of some folks creates a very unhealthy atmosphere. More than anything else this is the side of Pokemon that I’m not sure that I want my kids to have to deal with ... and if it becomes too much of a problem I’m going to pull them out altogether. Fun, cooperation, and sportsmanship are the kinds of things that I want my kids to learn. Secrecy, win at any costs, and arrogance are not on my list of things I’m seeking to teach them.
But I don’t get why some folks bash netdeckers so much. It just seems incredibly obvious to me that being able to build original decks and being able to play the game are two different skill sets. Inevitably some folks are going to be better at one than the other. Yes the very best and most experienced players in the game will be skilled at both but they are going to be a tiny fraction of the population of players as a whole. The bulk of other players are simply not going to be experts at building or playing, though they may have some degree of skill at one or the other.
A person who wants to win will seek to get better at both gameplay and deckbuilding but it’s simply unrealistic to expect them to be skilled overnight ... and it’s equally unrealistic to expect folks, skilled or not, to ignore new deck ideas that win. OF COURSE folks are going to look for lists that have won even if they don’t intend to copy it card for card. If they want to get better it’s the logical thing to do. Those of us who aren’t expert builders yet learn from these things and the folks who are more expert can sometimes glean a new bit of insight as well.
And it’s worth pointing out that some folks may NEVER be able to learn how to build a really good deck ... or they might develop into amazing deckbuilders but have terrible gameplay skills. Why call out these folks if they are doing the best that they can given their experience and talent? I can see how netdecking could become a crutch, hindering a persons growth as a player, but the simple fact is that not all players will have the skill to be experts.
Playing Pokemon is about winning and having fun. Using net lists doesn’t hinder the fun for the person doing it and it may lead to them winning more which is fun for them too. Yeah the person who created a “great list” may get upset when they do poorly with it but some other random person wins something with the exact same list ... but really they should be using that anger constructively as incentive to improve their own play skills. And they should also realize that their list winning, even in someone else’s hands, is a testament to their own building skills and be proud of that.
What bothers me a *lot* more than netdecking is the oppressive air of secrecy about decklists that permeates the Pokemon scene. This combined with the “leet” attitude of some folks creates a very unhealthy atmosphere. More than anything else this is the side of Pokemon that I’m not sure that I want my kids to have to deal with ... and if it becomes too much of a problem I’m going to pull them out altogether. Fun, cooperation, and sportsmanship are the kinds of things that I want my kids to learn. Secrecy, win at any costs, and arrogance are not on my list of things I’m seeking to teach them.
Ugh. I don't know why everyone is starting to make these topics once Jimmy made the thread on 'gym :[
It'll NEVER STOP. I'm sorry, but you must get on with life. People'll netdeck when they're just starting out, and gradually get better and more original, until most of them either play a teched out against their metagame version of an archetype or a rogue.
Just stop going all aggro-non netdeckers. It ain't gonna stop. Heck I did it when I first started, and I'm certain that MANY of you did as well.
Arcanine out.
It'll NEVER STOP. I'm sorry, but you must get on with life. People'll netdeck when they're just starting out, and gradually get better and more original, until most of them either play a teched out against their metagame version of an archetype or a rogue.
Just stop going all aggro-non netdeckers. It ain't gonna stop. Heck I did it when I first started, and I'm certain that MANY of you did as well.
Arcanine out.
Agreed...You Jimmy copiers!!!!Arcanine 274 said:
Vegeta ss4 said:
seriously people, just go to the Gym if you wanna talk about this... You'll at least get people who know what they're saying at the Gym... more so than here
That's kind of pushing it. I'd delete/apologize for that, as some might take offense to it.Ivysaurous said:Vegeta ss4 said:
seriously people, just go to the Gym if you wanna talk about this... You'll at least get people who know what they're saying at the Gym... more so than here
Arcanine out.
Ivysaurous said:seriously people, just go to the Gym if you wanna talk about this... You'll at least get people who know what they're saying at the Gym... more so than here
It is dumb to discuss about this anyways, as it wont solve anything, no matter where is this discussed.
I would rather leave netdecking like it is, than try to do anything.
Exactly right -Just Me-
People, complaining about net decking will not change it. Yeah, most of us hate it, but complaining about it is stupid... Just stop complaining and deal with it. The sad thing is, it's part of the game
People, complaining about net decking will not change it. Yeah, most of us hate it, but complaining about it is stupid... Just stop complaining and deal with it. The sad thing is, it's part of the game
All of my best decks have been completely original. It's fun to try out the archetypes and see what the fus is all about, but that really takes the fun out of the game especially when you're playing against someone with the same deck -_-
Arcanine 274 said:That's kind of pushing it. I'd delete/apologize for that, as some might take offense to it.Ivysaurous said:Vegeta ss4 said:
seriously people, just go to the Gym if you wanna talk about this... You'll at least get people who know what they're saying at the Gym... more so than here
Arcanine out.
Err... I don't go to Pokegym
Thats a Shame because its forums are much better!!!kravenace said:Err... I don't go to Pokegym
No offense to these forums but they are really lame to say the least. I would say that you need to go to Pokegym rather than this. You will get more enlightned ideas...The better players are there...they actually have a deck help and Strategy section...This site says it does but by the looks if it...they do not!!!
-_- If you think that way why are you here? To dazzle us with your incrediable deckplaying skills?
Overall I find the forums here more friendly and helpful. The Gym has some great stuff too and I go there a lot too ... but the two are very different in terms of personality and content.