Finished Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [AND THE WINNERS ARE...]

[alex]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

Also, Celever has been trying to lead the town since the beginning and he's been giving off strong town vibes. Why isn't he dead yet? I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched.

It's a bit of a scum tactic to keep large town contributors alive for a long time so that they can possibly get a free lynch on them basically by saying "he should be dead".

This has never been a scum tactic. It is very rare that someone brings up the reasoning of "he should be dead". I don't think that it's a good reason, but you saying this in your defense seems pretty scummy to me.

I saw we just go for Drohn's wishlist today.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

It's a bit of a scum tactic to keep large town contributors alive for a long time so that they can possibly get a free lynch on them basically by saying "he should be dead".

This has never been a scum tactic. It is very rare that someone brings up the reasoning of "he should be dead". I don't think that it's a good reason, but you saying this in your defense seems pretty scummy to me.

I saw we just go for Drohn's wishlist today.

Maybe not on this site, but it is on many many others

 

[Wailord_2]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

I don't understand why you are pressing for new leads when we already have old leads to pursue. What difference does it make whether or not they're the topic of discussion? This isn't day one; there's no need to continuously fish for information.

Because rn if we lynch SF we're stuffed for ANYTHING to talk about D4.

I really don't think lynching SF will give us an absence of things to talk about. There really should never be an absence of things to talk about, because we would have the results from the lynch and NK to talk about on top of previous suspects. Since, what we have tested so far of Drohn's theory has been correct, why shouldn't we see how the rest of it holds up. As other people have stated, I don't know how well Gooey relates to slime, but I would like to hear what SF has to say before considering voting for him.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

Because rn if we lynch SF we're stuffed for ANYTHING to talk about D4.

I really don't think lynching SF will give us an absence of things to talk about. There really should never be an absence of things to talk about, because we would have the results from the lynch and NK to talk about on top of previous suspects. Since, what we have tested so far of Drohn's theory has been correct, why shouldn't we see how the rest of it holds up. As other people have stated, I don't know how well Gooey relates to slime, but I would like to hear what SF has to say before considering voting for him.

I'm not saying "no SF lynch" I'm saying we should talk about other things first so that there will be ongoing discussions after we lynch SF. The death of this thread rn really shows the lack of discussion.

And why is no one actually LYNCHING him..?

 

[Chaos Jackal]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

Because, as you said, it's too early in the day and we try to find other subjects. We just can't.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

Because, as you said, it's too early in the day and we try to find other subjects. We just can't.

Yes, but it's not too early in the game. Everyone's posted at least what, 10 times now? That's enough info to to go off of.

I would, but I don't have access to a computer rn. Sorry :/

 

[bbninjas]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

I find it strange that PMJ is certain a member of the mason group is scum.

General thoughts:

One of Virizion and Terrakion is scum. The Swords of Justice are a tight-knit group of heroes. It does not make sense for them to not be all on the same side, so if Teal went out of his way to say that their alignments are unknown, then one of them is scum.

SF should probably get lynched. The more I think about the slimy players, the less I think it has to be a Goodra that did it. There are other possibilities, like Grimer or Muk, or even aquatic Pokemon like Wooper/Quagsire or Seismitoad.

Also, Celever has been trying to lead the town since the beginning and he's been giving off strong town vibes. Why isn't he dead yet? I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched.

Teal could quite simply be messing with town/mason group, as said by so many others. Why are you certain that one of them is scum; you are the only one certain!

And then IE is 'near convinced'.

Drohn's theory about the scum seems to be correct at the moment, and SF and Meaty are two optimal candidates for the lynch. Celever's idea to test the claim is a very clever one and how he has used his ability definitely give the impression that Celever is town. It's interesting that SF didn't post after being accused but then liked the lynch update where (probably) 2 scum were killed. Drohn's role also implies that one of Terrakion and Virizion is scum. If SF doesn't claim (which he might not be considering his inactivity after having suspicion on him yesterday) then he is probably scum. Meaty would also be a good lynch due to his abnormal vote weight coupled with confusing Camo and TheGuy.

Strange how these two players have been on my more 'scummy' list for a while, mainly in what the say/accuse.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

IE just said it "implies" it...

 

[One Approved]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

It's not uncommon for one or more members of a mason group to be scummy, as PMJ suggests about the Virizion/Terrakion/Cobalion. Their alignments are hidden for this reason. While I wouldn't say it's an absolute surefire sign that one of them is scummy, I would definitely not be surprised. PMJ is right when he says this is something to keep your eye on.

As for PMJ being scum, I highly doubt that is the case. I completely agree with him when he says we have old leads we should still pursue, pushing him to try and fish for more evidence isn't the right move in this situation, and his "reluctance" to bring new evidence to light is not very scummy in my opinion.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

Do you not agree that his reluctance to share his opinion on anything before was pretty scummy though?

 

[Ice Espeon]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

bbninjas, you can't go saying that I said I'm 'near convinced' about something, only to go and quote my only post of the day at the time where I say no such thing. It implies it is the case because by saying 'you do not know their alignments' the role is basically saying that one or more of the group may be scum. In the ROT there was a mason group that was told they were all town as well as a group that was not. From that I would assume that if there was a group that was told that they don't know each other's alignment that one of them could be scum. I also find it entirely possible that for flavour purposes a legendary Pokémon would turn against Arceus so I can definitely see either Terrakion or Virizion being scum.

 

[PMJ]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

First his reluctance to contribute was scummy,

I have never been reluctant to contribute - I just haven't have time. I moved into a new house early this week and I work third shift. I finished unpacking yesterday.

but the fact that he then did so 10 minutes after I called him out was even scummier.

This is basically what you're saying:

"Hey inactive user, you haven't said much, please contribute"
"Okay, sure *posts something*"
"Wow, thanks for doing what I asked when I asked, that's super scummy"

I mean, I get it--oh shit, they're on to me, better say something quick--but that's not really an argument and I wish people would stop trying to use it as one.

His reluctance to talk about anything more than the main discussions on hand also screams scum, because it means that if he is for whatever reason lynched, we don't have any real opinions from him to go off of.

This is just plain false, and the fact that someone with your experience is trying to pass it off as true is highly suspect. We will always have information to go off of because it's not the beginning of day one.

I'm not saying "no SF lynch" I'm saying we should talk about other things first so that there will be ongoing discussions after we lynch SF. The death of this thread rn really shows the lack of discussion.

And why is no one actually LYNCHING him..?

If SF were to die right now, we would definitely have discussion. You look at the posts of people who have died and then decide our next move from there.

I haven't voted for him because I'm not sure who I'd rather vote for at this point - him or you.

I find it strange that PMJ is certain a member of the mason group is scum.

Teal could quite simply be messing with town/mason group, as said by so many others. Why are you certain that one of them is scum; you are the only one certain!

The reason I feel certain is because of the game's flavor. The Swords of Justice are a team. They are the Swords of Justice. There's every reason to make them masons, but no reason not to. In this game, they're neighbors, not masons, and flavor-wise that makes no sense. One of them is scum. I'm sure of it. That's the only logical explanation I can think of. I am open to hearing whatever theories anyone else has about why all the Swords are town when Teal went out of his way to say that their alignments are not all known to each other.

Because rn if we lynch SF we're stuffed for ANYTHING to talk about D4.

Wrong.

It's a bit of a scum tactic to keep large town contributors alive for a long time so that they can possibly get a free lynch on them basically by saying "he should be dead".

In all the games I have played as scum and host, not once has this ever been a valid strategy. Ever. Why do you think Camoclone dies early in every game he plays?

It's D3. There have only been 3 NKs thus far (bc grant's role) so this seems very premature. A town wouldn't make a mistake like this. It seems like a scum striking a bit early with a plan.

So you're saying that the scum would, for some reason, kill TheGuy, who was by your own admission a suspect, over you, someone who is seen as hard town?

The direct contribution there. I have strong town vibes, but you "wouldn't mond seeing me lynched"? Surely it is anti-town to lynch ANYONE you think is contributing?

I think it's a little odd that you've contributed a lot over the past two days and the scum have just let you slide. That's all.

 

[GM DracLord]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

Pretty if Drohn wishlist is incorrect .. It must have been due to the misinformation by the other 2 sword

 

[bbninjas]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

I find it strange that PMJ is certain a member of the mason group is scum.

Teal could quite simply be messing with town/mason group, as said by so many others. Why are you certain that one of them is scum; you are the only one certain!

The reason I feel certain is because of the game's flavor. The Swords of Justice are a team. They are the Swords of Justice. There's every reason to make them masons, but no reason not to. In this game, they're neighbors, not masons, and flavor-wise that makes no sense. One of them is scum. I'm sure of it. That's the only logical explanation I can think of. I am open to hearing whatever theories anyone else has about why all the Swords are town when Teal went out of his way to say that their alignments are not all known to each other.

I would have thought Teal would have said that to confuse the actual mason group, and since Teal is experienced, he could quite simply be implementing something new/different. I also think it should be pointed out that the flavour says 'Swordsmen of Justice' and the group is the 'Council of the Swordsmen'. THis may be irrelevant, because Teal's translation/area could use different terms than other areas (eg Aus)

The direct contribution there. I have strong town vibes, but you "wouldn't mond seeing me lynched"? Surely it is anti-town to lynch ANYONE you think is contributing?

I think it's a little odd that you've contributed a lot over the past two days and the scum have just let you slide. That's all.

Good point

Bolded

 

[One Approved]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

Do you not agree that his reluctance to share his opinion on anything before was pretty scummy though?

and his "reluctance" to bring new evidence to light is not very scummy in my opinion.

do u even reed bro

I also agree that keeping town contributors alive for a long time is not a great strategy. In the 2 games I have played as scum (once with some of the most experienced WW players on beach), and the one game I played as the sniper, not once have I or any of the other scum ever tried to use this strategy because it never works.

 

[bbninjas]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

Do you not agree that his reluctance to share his opinion on anything before was pretty scummy though?

and his "reluctance" to bring new evidence to light is not very scummy in my opinion.

do u even reed bro

I also agree that keeping town contributors alive for a long time is not a great strategy. In the 2 games I have played as scum (once with some of the most experienced WW players on beach), and the one game I played as the sniper, not once have I or any of the other scum ever tried to use this strategy because it never works.

Like this post if you confirm with the above please.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

Drohn's theory about the scum seems to be correct at the moment, and SF and Meaty are two optimal candidates for the lynch. Celever's idea to test the claim is a very clever one and how he has used his ability definitely give the impression that Celever is town. It's interesting that SF didn't post after being accused but then liked the lynch update where (probably) 2 scum were killed. Drohn's role also implies that one of Terrakion and Virizion is scum. If SF doesn't claim (which he might not be considering his inactivity after having suspicion on him yesterday) then he is probably scum. Meaty would also be a good lynch due to his abnormal vote weight coupled with confusing Camo and TheGuy.

I don't think that Drohn's role implies that. Usually when a mason group is part of your role you don't get scum in there. But that may just be me, but I honestly doubt it.

As people have already said, I have definitely seen Mason groups with mostly town, but 1 scum member thrown in there (e.g. The Reign of Terror). I read back on Drohn's flavor, and I think it could really be either possibility: There could be 1 scum member in there, or none. The phrase "You do not know the alignments of those players." seems pretty vague, honestly. I could easily see one of the Swords of Justice being corrupted, or that phrase was just put there to put those players on edge. There's also the possibility that Drohn could have been turned into a wolf when he got his Secret Ability. Right now, I don't think we have any good way of telling which theory is true, so we should just ignore it.

I don't understand why you are pressing for new leads when we already have old leads to pursue. What difference does it make whether or not they're the topic of discussion? This isn't day one; there's no need to continuously fish for information.

You should always be looking for new leads and fishing for information; there's no reason not to. Celever said something a minute ago about how "we will have nothing to work off of the next day if we don't look for leads today," or something like that. While that's not entirely true, he's on the right track in that we'll have a better idea of who to lynch tomorrow if we fish for leads today. It's not like we can't pursue our current lead today as well as new leads for tomorrow (or potentially today).

It's a bit of a scum tactic to keep large town contributors alive for a long time so that they can possibly get a free lynch on them basically by saying "he should be dead".

This has never been a scum tactic. It is very rare that someone brings up the reasoning of "he should be dead". I don't think that it's a good reason, but you saying this in your defense seems pretty scummy to me.

It definitely depends on the person and how trustworthy they are. I've considered leaving active and helpful townies alive for this reason when I was a wolf (which I was for like 4 of the past 5 games). In Celever's case, the reason he's not dying is probably because he's been a considered lynch for quite a while now, and still somewhat is. It would be foolish for the wolves to eliminate one of our more likely lynches. In cases where the member in question hasn't really been brought up for lynch recently, it is usually wiser to just kill them, but there are reasons to leave these kinds of players alive. I've also never seen someone try this plan period, so I've never seen it fail, thus no one can really attest to how good/bad it is (unless you have seen this plan before, like in Celever's case).

PMJ I'm kind of neutral on right now. I don't agree with a lot of the things he's said today, but they don't strike me as scummy things. I'd keep an eye on him, though.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

JS, I've used the tactic I mentioned above to great effect on another site, so it does work. It just seems really weird for a townie to say just on D3, but I know that rn there aren't enough posts made by PMJ (and he has the backing of a random generally inactive player fsr (One Approved protecting his scummie?) so it's not going to work rn.

Which in and of itself is a scum move. Little posting = little ammunition to use in a case or argument. I will pursue this case tomorrow.

Also, PMJ's commemts about how I "should be dead" when I am still a suspect could be setting me up for an unsuspicious kill by planting the idea that I should be dead in the town's heads. If I die tonight, PLEASE take a good look at PMJ.

One Approved, the key word there was "anything". I asked him to contribute the first time, he waited a while (iirc) then posted answering a small question. I then said "OK you're here contribute" so he did. I suppose this could happen to a town or scum, it's just his reluctance to do anything in the first place seems off, which I think he did. MtC, bbninjas, CJ and Drac, how do you interpret what PMJ did? IK that you briefly shared thoughts on him MtC, but I'm just wondering if you think he was actually reluctant to post or if it was just from my POV that he was.

I also asked you four because you're pretty much my biggest town reads rn, so congrats . It's mere coincedence that three of those four posted on this page, but I guess it shows some of my biggest town reads are teying to contribute! :s

 

[BigfootAUS]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

It is kinda hard to contribute when there's not much to analyse that hasn't already been discussed. It wouldn't surprise me if the scum are keeping Celever alive just because he's pushing discussions forward and moving the lynch crosshairs on to potential townies instead.

Saying that, I still think SF and Meaty are good suspects. PMJ does seem a little fishy, but I'm keen on following Drohn's leads a little while longer before joining the PMJ bandwagon.

 

[Celever]

RE: Werewolf XXIII: A Sacrifice for Anti-Arceus [DAY 3: ends Wednesday 8th]

It is kinda hard to contribute when there's not much to analyse that hasn't already been discussed. It wouldn't surprise me if the scum are keeping Celever alive just because he's pushing discussions forward and moving the lynch crosshairs on to potential townies instead.

Saying that, I still think SF and Meaty are good suspects. PMJ does seem a little fishy, but I'm keen on following Drohn's leads a little while longer before joining the PMJ bandwagon.

I've only really done that today though.

Seriously the reason I've been kept alive is because I've been a huge potential suspect the first two days. Plus it's like a game of 30 -- 3 deaths. This isn't a discussion to be had because there's so many other possibilities.