"I am Chrom and my win condition is to eliminate all non-town aligned players."
Finished Werewolf XXXI: Grima's Rebirth - GAME OVER! TOWN WINS!
- Thread starter Vom
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"I am the leader of the Shepards."
MY READS: (with some questions)
@Ice Espeon - Cleared. Inactive as usual. Something to point out: he voted King Xerneas and then Camoclone during the SS lynch. No one questioned why. I wonder if that was just a random vote.
@Celever- guts says scum, although my guts always tell me he is scum. Every game he does something scummy but this time, even without knowing hoe Celever plays scum, I think he is using the strategy he talked about last game. Last game he was town and I don't remember why but he said that his scum meta is WIFOM. I see him using this strategy a lot in this game. E.G - post number 256 on PP. Celever has some weird posts with simsands. e.g posts 660, 727, 697. Not sure what to make of it. Additionally, Celever and Camoclone are avoiding from commenting to each other more than one time. One of them react and then the next one moves on. Celever is also connected somewhat to tgk and Jabberwock because of the tgk role claim and he is pretty sure KX is scum (posting it from the start and lately). Celever, may I ask why at the time, SS looked like the better vote than PP? You changed your vote from PP pretty quickly after just 2 quotes from Camo.
@thegrovylekid - Townie- mainly because of his claim proved by Jabberwock and Celever. Without that, I would have considered him pretty scummy with the bandwagon (281) in the SS lynch, along with other scummy things I already talked about.
@Athena- Scummy. She finally gave her reads and it seems that her scum list is me, Celever, Jabberwock, KX, mordacazir and simsands. She is mainly referring her scum reads on the SS lynch, where she barely gave her opinion except for post 413- where she simply commenting to SS- "this is getting ridiculous". Athena said in her read post that she thinks I'm scummy for asking questions and being aggressive.. ok.
@Professor Palutena - Townie. He is focused on getting reads and called out people who were busy early this day, with figuring out who is the announcer.
@Empoleon_master - Town.. the one to start the big chain of connections in this game. He is related to both I.E and simsands. One question for you EM- You said earlier that you gave your full role to simsands on the QT. May I ask why? Was it you giving it without him asking for it? Did he asked you to give him your full role?
@Jabberwock - First I thought he is pretty scummy with the bandwagon on SS (post 319) and not to mention how he focused on the announcer's identity. Later on he became more focused on scumhunting. So I'm not sure about him.
@Camoclone - Quiet in an unusual way and as I said, avoiding from Celever. He said he kept his thought about Celever being scummy for later but that's is weird, since even if he is not sharing his full thoughts (like the first time he mentioned SS) he's still posting something about the player.
@Vracken - Voted for KX during the SS lynch- called out by Celever asking him why and then Vracken said "to get reactions". This answer is pretty suspisious to me as it came very late and not something a new player would say.
@King Xerneas - No idea. Lots of players read him as scum. He was pretty eager to lynch Celever from the very start which is funny since Celever seems to be also very determined to lynch him.
@Luispipe8 - No idea. He was the first one to point out how it's weird that Celever and Camoclone aren't fighting each other though. But I have nothing to say about him right now other than that.
@bbninjas - Hopefully Town- Otherwise we are about to lynch one. bbninjas's really feel town to me. He leaves those future references which at least to me are sometimes helpful. One of them by the way is very good, as he managed to predict Camoclone's actions: post 250- Saying that it seems like Camoclone is preparing the ground for leading the town to a lynch after Camoclone posted a very short message with 3 players that he thinks are the best lynches for today (one of them was SS which he later on indeed lead the lynch on).
@Reinforce- No Idea. That is why you need to do a read list. You suddenly realize how many players are hiding well under the radar.
@mordacazir - Scummy. Some classic scummy things like the role fish in post 480 but also the part where he said Jabberwock is scumhunting. (when he was only scumhunting morda).
@simsands - Scummy. Lie detector. Without the lie detector I would have had a hard time to not saying "no idea". Nevertheless, this player is in the middle of the connections in this game. Connected to EM and IE through the seed of truth, connected to GM through the same thing (I think). Connected to Celever with their weird talks. And finally connected to bbninjas of course because only one of them is saying the truth. I see here lots of info.
@GM DracLord - Yeah, that's a tough one. I'll ask a question instead - Why did you choose simsands to talk with in the QT? Was it your choice ?
@Cypher333 - Scummy - Camoclone is not here to annoy you and you are still not active? (I think this was the reason you were not active last game so correct me if I'm wrong).
@The Healer - Was very eager to lynch tgk during the SS lynch. Seems to give 1 or 2 posts once in a while although each post is fairly longer than many posts others are posting. Too early to know.
@Ice Espeon - Cleared. Inactive as usual. Something to point out: he voted King Xerneas and then Camoclone during the SS lynch. No one questioned why. I wonder if that was just a random vote.
@Celever- guts says scum, although my guts always tell me he is scum. Every game he does something scummy but this time, even without knowing hoe Celever plays scum, I think he is using the strategy he talked about last game. Last game he was town and I don't remember why but he said that his scum meta is WIFOM. I see him using this strategy a lot in this game. E.G - post number 256 on PP. Celever has some weird posts with simsands. e.g posts 660, 727, 697. Not sure what to make of it. Additionally, Celever and Camoclone are avoiding from commenting to each other more than one time. One of them react and then the next one moves on. Celever is also connected somewhat to tgk and Jabberwock because of the tgk role claim and he is pretty sure KX is scum (posting it from the start and lately). Celever, may I ask why at the time, SS looked like the better vote than PP? You changed your vote from PP pretty quickly after just 2 quotes from Camo.
@thegrovylekid - Townie- mainly because of his claim proved by Jabberwock and Celever. Without that, I would have considered him pretty scummy with the bandwagon (281) in the SS lynch, along with other scummy things I already talked about.
@Athena- Scummy. She finally gave her reads and it seems that her scum list is me, Celever, Jabberwock, KX, mordacazir and simsands. She is mainly referring her scum reads on the SS lynch, where she barely gave her opinion except for post 413- where she simply commenting to SS- "this is getting ridiculous". Athena said in her read post that she thinks I'm scummy for asking questions and being aggressive.. ok.
@Professor Palutena - Townie. He is focused on getting reads and called out people who were busy early this day, with figuring out who is the announcer.
@Empoleon_master - Town.. the one to start the big chain of connections in this game. He is related to both I.E and simsands. One question for you EM- You said earlier that you gave your full role to simsands on the QT. May I ask why? Was it you giving it without him asking for it? Did he asked you to give him your full role?
@Jabberwock - First I thought he is pretty scummy with the bandwagon on SS (post 319) and not to mention how he focused on the announcer's identity. Later on he became more focused on scumhunting. So I'm not sure about him.
@Camoclone - Quiet in an unusual way and as I said, avoiding from Celever. He said he kept his thought about Celever being scummy for later but that's is weird, since even if he is not sharing his full thoughts (like the first time he mentioned SS) he's still posting something about the player.
@Vracken - Voted for KX during the SS lynch- called out by Celever asking him why and then Vracken said "to get reactions". This answer is pretty suspisious to me as it came very late and not something a new player would say.
@King Xerneas - No idea. Lots of players read him as scum. He was pretty eager to lynch Celever from the very start which is funny since Celever seems to be also very determined to lynch him.
@Luispipe8 - No idea. He was the first one to point out how it's weird that Celever and Camoclone aren't fighting each other though. But I have nothing to say about him right now other than that.
@bbninjas - Hopefully Town- Otherwise we are about to lynch one. bbninjas's really feel town to me. He leaves those future references which at least to me are sometimes helpful. One of them by the way is very good, as he managed to predict Camoclone's actions: post 250- Saying that it seems like Camoclone is preparing the ground for leading the town to a lynch after Camoclone posted a very short message with 3 players that he thinks are the best lynches for today (one of them was SS which he later on indeed lead the lynch on).
@Reinforce- No Idea. That is why you need to do a read list. You suddenly realize how many players are hiding well under the radar.
@mordacazir - Scummy. Some classic scummy things like the role fish in post 480 but also the part where he said Jabberwock is scumhunting. (when he was only scumhunting morda).
@simsands - Scummy. Lie detector. Without the lie detector I would have had a hard time to not saying "no idea". Nevertheless, this player is in the middle of the connections in this game. Connected to EM and IE through the seed of truth, connected to GM through the same thing (I think). Connected to Celever with their weird talks. And finally connected to bbninjas of course because only one of them is saying the truth. I see here lots of info.
@GM DracLord - Yeah, that's a tough one. I'll ask a question instead - Why did you choose simsands to talk with in the QT? Was it your choice ?
@Cypher333 - Scummy - Camoclone is not here to annoy you and you are still not active? (I think this was the reason you were not active last game so correct me if I'm wrong).
@The Healer - Was very eager to lynch tgk during the SS lynch. Seems to give 1 or 2 posts once in a while although each post is fairly longer than many posts others are posting. Too early to know.
I went back a solid 5 pages but didn't find his post stating the reason, I did however find king xerneas referencing it. Also I would try to go back further in the posts but the page number buttons are REALLY tiny on my ipod and I can't zoom in on them too much or the page will crash and need to be loaded up on my ipod....again. Note this has been a problem for me in other WW games so it's not specifically a problem for this game.
As for anyone wondering what my play style is, it's simple, I don't have one. I go with what I think and think of in the back of my head, I may withold certain information from time to time, like any other ww player, but that's really it.
I voluntarily gave up the information, the last 1/10 of the information I did not send to him was pretty irelevant and it's an ability that if camo or someone makes a comment on will have a bandwagon on me. The important ability I did reveal to simands however was a one use ability that I do NOT wish to post, however if simands is scum/indie we have a few players that know the ability and can easily abuse it and kill me for it.
Remember bbninjas and simandis could both be lying, ie one of them is scum and the other is indie. We must consider all possibilities in this scenario.
As for what the seed of trust said I got a message from KON stating "you have been invited to a quick topic *link here*". Second or third post of the QT was simandis sending me his role which is what made me a bit suspicious at first.
So simsands first sent you his role? And only after that you sent him your role?
@scattered mind, the evidence you've provided for your read on me is incorrect.
Please explain to me how this is WIFOM:
@scattered mind, if we assume two scumteams of 3 (which would make sense to me), provide your top 6 scumreads for easy reference.
Please explain to me how this is WIFOM:
And where exactly is my interaction with simsands in this post?
Regardless, to answer your question, it's because SS might as well have been scum. He did a major scumtell, defended himself terribly and then provided incriminating evidence against himself. And the SS lynch had momentum, which is necessary to create enough pressure to actually get a reaction out of someone on early D1. Prof P is still probably scum.
@scattered mind, if we assume two scumteams of 3 (which would make sense to me), provide your top 6 scumreads for easy reference.
Something also feels off to me, why would celever of allplayers defend simandis after I told simandis multiple times in the QT that I next to know (highly suspect on a massive level) that celever is scum.
My thoughts on the celever/camo otp thing/them not fighting.
There is a small group of indie players, most likely 3 or so, I suspect the following players to be indie:
1 celever
2 simandis
3 tgk this is an uber uber slight guess as he doesn't want to hurt anyone but pretty much posted stuff with less content then half of my crap posts in other ww games. He is simply my last reasonable guess as to who could be the third indie in the group of three.
Group of scum I suspect:
1 Camopost lead us like puppies to bacon and then lynching SS, scum 100% Also this scum/indie split for camo and celever would explain how both have been leading us off of a cliff, while not arguing with eachother. Because should they be on the same team they would have agreed to has a slap fight of posting in a QT.
2 bbninjas? Again this is a guess listing here, if he's not scum then he's indie and you could swap simandis with him on these lists of players.
3 mordcazir this is obvious
4 insert other player that's been suspected of being scum but I can't remember here.
My thoughts on the celever/camo otp thing/them not fighting.
There is a small group of indie players, most likely 3 or so, I suspect the following players to be indie:
1 celever
2 simandis
3 tgk this is an uber uber slight guess as he doesn't want to hurt anyone but pretty much posted stuff with less content then half of my crap posts in other ww games. He is simply my last reasonable guess as to who could be the third indie in the group of three.
Group of scum I suspect:
1 Camopost lead us like puppies to bacon and then lynching SS, scum 100% Also this scum/indie split for camo and celever would explain how both have been leading us off of a cliff, while not arguing with eachother. Because should they be on the same team they would have agreed to has a slap fight of posting in a QT.
2 bbninjas? Again this is a guess listing here, if he's not scum then he's indie and you could swap simandis with him on these lists of players.
3 mordcazir this is obvious
4 insert other player that's been suspected of being scum but I can't remember here.
As of day one I had to reveal 7-8/10 of my role, then I decided on my own to send simandis a crucial additional 1/10 of my role to him to explain why I would use it should I have to, I think.
This is where the interaction begins, later on he asks you if you think morda is *name I can't remember* you say no and overall simsands mentioned earlier the thing that no one should talk about or something like that.
As for WIFOM- You said he searched for a reason to not appear scummy when he found something scummy and because of that he wanted to place a vote, while calling it an act form by scums. If he found something scummy and posted it why do you assume it's because he is trying to not appear scummy? Because he is suppose to if he read every post in the thread ? This whole case seems like you have built it as if you decided to make him look scummy in the first place.
As for my top 6 scum reads- Celever, Athena, Mordacazir, Cypher333, simsands, Camoclone.
As for WIFOM- You said he searched for a reason to not appear scummy when he found something scummy and because of that he wanted to place a vote, while calling it an act form by scums. If he found something scummy and posted it why do you assume it's because he is trying to not appear scummy? Because he is suppose to if he read every post in the thread ? This whole case seems like you have built it as if you decided to make him look scummy in the first place.
As for my top 6 scum reads- Celever, Athena, Mordacazir, Cypher333, simsands, Camoclone.
And why is that interaction scummy?
Nono, WIFOM doesn't mean that. WIFOM is making it so that if I were scum I would always be able to have the upper hand. There were no assumptions in my case against Prof P there. His reasoning for the vote was a huge reach and was fundamentally flawed, which would only really happen if he were trying to fuel the lynch, which he would furthermore only have reason to do if he were scum. I don't see how this is WIFOMy or scummy in any way, but if you want to try and reiterate your case more correctly I'd be happy to respond. /le shrug
...
OK, I'll check for that.
The interaction might be scummy. (I said I'm not sure what to make of it) since I don't see any way you both will share the same thought without explicitly telling it to each other somewhere else. And I think we have enough non-mafia chat QT's in this game.
As I said from the first time I suspected you- I may be looking into things too much and I explained in my read post that I have a problem with my guts always telling me you are scum. You are still on my scum list because of another thing- The Camoclone issue.
But if we shared a scum QT, why would we need to communicate things to each other like that in the public thread? That would be rather dumb, yes? I just think simsands is a really intelligent player who picked up on what I implied; I'm sure some other people did too.
And just so people stop talking about it, ##VOTE: @Camoclone. I don't really have any issue with your play so far this game and right now I think you're probably town, but because clearly this is a scumtell for both of us, I think we need to have an argument about something. Uhhhh... ur bad at ww, fite meh >:L
From the MD.
WIFOM - Short for "wine in front of me", this phrase refers to an infinite reverse psychology loop in which it is impossible to determine the best outcome in a given situation due to the fact that the scum, knowing the best outcome, can knowingly act against it, thus changing the best outcome. The loop occurs when one realizes that one can act according to this new best outcome but the scum, knowing that this is the best outcome if they choose to act against the original best outcome, can act in favor of the original best outcome.
WIFOM - Short for "wine in front of me", this phrase refers to an infinite reverse psychology loop in which it is impossible to determine the best outcome in a given situation due to the fact that the scum, knowing the best outcome, can knowingly act against it, thus changing the best outcome. The loop occurs when one realizes that one can act according to this new best outcome but the scum, knowing that this is the best outcome if they choose to act against the original best outcome, can act in favor of the original best outcome.
Yes, what I paraphrased. What compelled you to c/p that here?
OK, now this actually is somewhat scummy. Reads only really help the town. There's always the argument that it allows scum to steer discussion with their kill, and I do admit this, but it only works if the town puts too much stock in analysing nightkills, and it helps town in the long run if we refer back to the reads posts.
Anyone has another full read to share before he gets back?
*camoclone voice* No, your logic is flawed because of the way you implied that thing is indie thus disproving your point in the matter and then implying that KoN is scum instead of you.
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