Finished Werewolf XXXIII: Order in the Court!- Congratulations Law!

[Empoleon_master]

Ok I finally caught up after being distracted by irl stuff like...responsibilities *gasp* and because I didn't earlier here. (fyi my pc was left on the entire time) ##unvote
My belief is that tgk got pressured and has a really specifically weird set of abilities, too specific to be a safe claim, but then again QT with other players seems a bit scummy, but last game disproved all qts on pb = scum qts so that leads us nowhere. Side note, TGK, regardless of whether that was to activate an alleged scum or town ability that mass voting and unvoting thing was a brilliant play regardless of faction *claps*.

The stuff with BB ninjas got really interesting */eating popcorn while reading worthy* and I believe that this has to be the most interesting d1 so far just in terms of stuff that's happened. And I have to say I'm torn on which side I want to be on with him, on one hand he could be town and was merely testing something weird with future references or abilities etc like I occasionally do on PB, or he actually could be hiding stuff from us, but as *insert player who said this's name here* said posting all of your thoughts is bad for town as that is information they could potentially use against you/to target you. But that is in turn countered by the fact that I believe it may go against his play style, which is in turn countered by the first possibility I mentioned and this ends up being a giant logic circle.

 

[Professor Palutena]

It's odd that Pearl can't channel Mia as well. She's capable of that in the games. It does minimise the utility of the mason chat though, since we can't "clear" May's as well as Pearl when Carson dies.

Depends how it works.

I'm assuming it works where as long as Maya is alive, TGK can continue to post. I don't see why TGK can't just go "See, I'm mason and XYZ are my partners" and we have 2+ clears then (TGK is cleared because of his flip and he then clears his partner(s)).

That's all assuming he flips town, which I don't see as terribly likely.

That said, we don't know how Maya's end of the ability works. And we probably won't considering she's probably the worst target for any kill/lynch since she'll kill TGK with her, so she needs to stay hidden.

Hi EM! Welcome to the game!

 

[Celever]

Celever, do you really think that the only case on EM is that he is not posting much?

Yeah. Posting much content, that is, but I don't consider posting fluff posting, because it has all the same effects as not posting at all in terms of what happens post-mortem.

Depends how it works.

I'm assuming it works where as long as Maya is alive, TGK can continue to post. I don't see why TGK can't just go "See, I'm mason and XYZ are my partners" and we have 2+ clears then (TGK is cleared because of his flip and he then clears his partner(s)).

That's all assuming he flips town, which I don't see as terribly likely.

That said, we don't know how Maya's end of the ability works. And we probably won't considering she's probably the worst target for any kill/lynch since she'll kill TGK with her, so she needs to stay hidden.

Hi EM! Welcome to the game!

It still seems risky to me to give scum a 50/50 chance to kill Maya and TGK. I was thinking, might it be better for Maya to claim Pearl's role if she gets pressured by the town first? They can come clean if Pearl also gets pressured, but we really want Maya to remain hidden for as long as possible.

 

[Scattered mind]

Ok that's weird. You don't see any problem with the post in which he agreed with you without understanding your case on bb? You don't see his play being different from last game ?

 

[Professor Palutena]

It still seems risky to me to give scum a 50/50 chance to kill Maya and TGK. I was thinking, might it be better for Maya to claim Pearl's role if she gets pressured by the town first? They can come clean if Pearl also gets pressured, but we really want Maya to remain hidden for as long as possible.

Surely town has some degree of protection/info roles to dissuade people from targetting Maya/Pearl, from doctors, watchers, redirectors, etc. It's generally good practice to protect the clears at night because the clears are obvious scum targets.

Granted, there isn't any confirmation that these roles exist, but they're incredibly common roles that I think it's a near guarantee.

 

[Celever]

Ok that's weird. You don't see any problem with the post in which he agreed with you without understanding your case on bb? You don't see his play being different from last game ?

That doesn't stand out to me any more than what other people do. The post in which he agreed with me is I feel typical of his play from at least Fire Emblem, where he agreed with what simsands said (even after he flipped scum ) without really reading what he was saying carefully.

His play has degraded from last game because he was posting fluff. That's what I meant. It doesn't mean my earlier post doesn't apply.

 

[Celever]

Hit post too early :U

Surely town has some degree of protection/info roles to dissuade people from targetting Maya/Pearl, from doctors, watchers, redirectors, etc. It's generally good practice to protect the clears at night because the clears are obvious scum targets.

Granted, there isn't any confirmation that these roles exist, but they're incredibly common roles that I think it's a near guarantee.

While that's true, I never like being presumptuous. Waiting until later on when there are more clears flying about will be more effective I think.

 

[Squirtle Squad]

Hey y'all!

School camp has finished and I'll be around as much as I can manage

Camo asked long ago how I was going to respond to being pressured by votes... Haven't found the page to quote but my response is nothing?
It was rvs, you voted me because I was not around? Anyways, didn't think anything of the votes because there was clearly no content behind them.

Moving on! I'm still on the bus home, so I can try to post a little more detailed on the happenings of d1 so far later,

But for now I'm going to ##vote: thegrovylekid

Your claim could very easily be a safe claim.
The flavour in his role hints that the Mason group has more than 2 people In the QT
I'm always wary of "Mason" groups with more than 2 members. Due to the ability to clear each other (when there's 2) having than two potential confos from one ability is OP.
Whenever I host, if I include masons with more than 2 I will often include one scum.

In my opinion TGK could very easily be scum. He's playing scummy and his role is scummy. If he's town I would bet on one of his partners being scum.

 

[bbninjas]

I legitimately looked up what a Mason is on the MafiaWiki and found that some mods can introduce scum-aligned Mason groups. What if he's one of those?

It's possible but unlikely in my opinion, if he's not lying about a thing (though I dont know this flavour at all so...). What I want to know is:

*EVERYONE READ*

CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THAT TGK HAS A MASON ROLE??? THIS HAS BEEN IGNORED SOOOO MANY TIMES AND IM MUCH MORE INCLINED TO BELIEVE TGK IS LYING ABOUT MASON NOW.

We are referring to the Masons being groups of people who can talk privately, right?

Yes.

Alright, here's my best guess to how my role works:

When I start off, I'm not deathproof. Once I die, as long as Maya is alive, I can post and vote as though I was alive, and I'm also deathproof because I've already died. Once Maya dies, I either die (again) or am no longer deathproof.

... u.u;

I'm not sure if you're dumbtelling, not reading or still legitimately confused. I think your role is this:

If you are killed an any way, you can still post and vote after death. But, there's a catch. If Maya dies, you lose this Ability. With your evidence, as long as you are officially killed in any way and Maya has not died, you will be alerted if you vote the player with the role of "Phoenix".

I think I said that 3 times already...

-If tgk was telling the truth, then he wouldn't have died. No townie lynch.

-If he was lying, he was 105% scum. No townie lynch.

But well, although I rather lynch TGK today, I guess I'll see how Jabber's case works out...

If TGK was telling the truth, we've also wasted a lynched. It doesn't matter if he can post after death; he's still dead and we kill an innocent. If we can say he is likely town without killing him Day 1, then that's great. Also, instead of lynching a potential clear Day 1, we can attempt to lynch scum or someone we have little information on. I don't know why you've been pushing for TGKs lynch like this - it looks very suss.

EM, you were viewing the thread not five minutes ago. Get over here and post your thoughts. >:L

You echoed Camo. Again.

I realize I may have jumped the gun a bit for trying to end RVS early, but I don't see how this part of your post does any more than echo what's already been said.

My defense wasn't specifically of you (although I suppose in a way, it could be perceived as such). I dislike the sole reasoning of "Oh, the D20 shenanigans in D&D are getting out of hand" and "Hey, it's still RVS" as excuses to jump on bandwagons. Yeah, the D20 thing was funny once, and still is in the context of D&D. That joke has long since run its course and there is no need to bring it into a WW game.

[/QUOTE]Here, Jabber tries to stop RVS. While RVS is annoying at times, you can't stop it because it allows people to guage reactions. You also can't really have a case at this early stage in the game (outside of the obnixous vote wall), and trying to stop RVS, which can lead to cases due to reaction, is a step towards stopping discussion, something that the scum want.[/QUOTE]
Like I said, I'm fairly certain all this does is echo.

I'm most confident about EM, though, so I'm putting my vote on him for now. ##VOTE: EMPOLEON_MASTER

I was gonna say I'm happy with Jabber's defense, but he then goes and votes for EM of all people so he is keeping my vote.

Is this a real case @GM DracLord ? Because RVS is long gone.

That post is also old when considering the amount of development had gone between that post and now.

I'd go off comparing Maya's spirit channeling to Benjamin's ability to look into a person's eyes and see their memories and secrets, but then that would be a fluff post and I don't want people to not like me for not contributing. I don't think there's many similarities, anyways.

I have already specifically told you that you dont need to be worried about posting fluff if you are town. The fact that you are ignoring this as well as subtly bringing this up nearly each time you post is scummy.

To be honest, I was considering switching my vote to TGK, but since he seems deathproof I won't. I think voting against EM is still a good idea for me, becausse if we lynch TGK, he is technically still alive, therefore doing nothing except setting up a double kill upon lynching Maya.

This is poor logic. And contradictory or confusing, either works.

However, I guess Robin could be a second vote if I ever took my vote off EM, even though I don't see a legitimate reason to vote him over EM.

Uh, what. You don't vote for someone if there is not a legitimate reason to vote them.

(I'm probably echoing or doing something that's going to get called out in this again...)

You keep on mentioning this. a) unnecessary b) nice way to defend yourself before it happens, but unfortunately for you, it's backfiring. I said I was keeping my vote on Jabber just before. Now I'm voting you. ##UNVOTE: Jabberwock ##VOTE: Jesi

Celever, do you really think that the only case on EM is that he is not posting much?

Can you explain what the case on EM is, then?

While that's true, I never like being presumptuous. Waiting until later on when there are more clears flying about will be more effective I think.

 

[bbninjas]

While that's true, I never like being presumptuous. Waiting until later on when there are more clears flying about will be more effective I think.

I'm a big seconder for this.

 

[bbninjas]

Hey y'all

'ello!

But for now I'm going to ##vote: thegrovylekid

Your claim could very easily be a safe claim.
The flavour in his role hints that the Mason group has more than 2 people In the QT
I'm always wary of "Mason" groups with more than 2 members. Due to the ability to clear each other (when there's 2) having than two potential confos from one ability is OP.
Whenever I host, if I include masons with more than 2 I will often include one scum.

In my opinion TGK could very easily be scum. He's playing scummy and his role is scummy. If he's town I would bet on one of his partners being scum.

This is WIFOM logic, as in this logic is only true if the hosts decided to do this. We haven't ever seen either host host a game of WW before, so we don't know what they prefer to do setup wise. As such, this logic means absolutely nothing with the same likelihood as it being a scumtell. (e.g. my first mason group was a group of 3 town.)

 

[bbninjas]

Spoiler

I realize I may have jumped the gun a bit for trying to end RVS early, but I don't see how this part of your post does any more than echo what's already been said.

My defense wasn't specifically of you (although I suppose in a way, it could be perceived as such). I dislike the sole reasoning of "Oh, the D20 shenanigans in D&D are getting out of hand" and "Hey, it's still RVS" as excuses to jump on bandwagons. Yeah, the D20 thing was funny once, and still is in the context of D&D. That joke has long since run its course and there is no need to bring it into a WW game.

[/QUOTE]Here, Jabber tries to stop RVS. While RVS is annoying at times, you can't stop it because it allows people to guage reactions. You also can't really have a case at this early stage in the game (outside of the obnixous vote wall), and trying to stop RVS, which can lead to cases due to reaction, is a step towards stopping discussion, something that the scum want.[/QUOTE]
Like I said, I'm fairly certain all this does is echo.

That stuff in the spoiler in the larger post of my above was a quoting mistake - I didn't mean to keep it quoted nor did I write it nor did I respond to it.

 

[Squirtle Squad]

'ello!


This is WIFOM logic, as in this logic is only true if the hosts decided to do this. We haven't ever seen either host host a game of WW before, so we don't know what they prefer to do setup wise. As such, this logic means absolutely nothing with the same likelihood as it being a scumtell. (e.g. my first mason group was a group of 3 town.)

Yeah suppose it is wifom logic, but it still can't be denied that if it were indeed 3 town, then it would be quite Op...

 

[Scattered mind]

I explained the case on EM 2~ posts after the post you quoted.

EM
- Supporting a case whithout understanding it. This is something I said I don't remember him doing, but Celevet already answered me that he actually did it so my case is weak now.

 

[bbninjas]

Yeah suppose it is wifom logic, but it still can't be denied that if it were indeed 3 town, then it would be quite Op...

We don't even know if these other mason members are guaranteed town in the first place...

I explained the case on EM 2~ posts after the post you quoted.

I cannot/couldn't find it.

EM
- Supporting a case whithout understanding it. This is something I said I don't remember him doing, but Celevet already answered me that he actually did it so my case is weak now.

Ah okay.

 

[Scattered mind]

And yeah bbninjas, that post of GM Grac is ideed old. That's why I asked him about what he thinks now. What's your point?

 

[Celever]

@bbninjas, you just asked masons to claim and then said they should wait until later before claiming. Which is it?

 

[simsands]

@bbninjas, you just asked masons to claim and then said they should wait until later before claiming. Which is it?

It seems like he's trying to have someone who isn't mason confirm that TGK indeed is a mason.

 

[Celever]

It seems like he's trying to have someone who isn't mason confirm that TGK indeed is a mason.

How are they meant to do that lol?

 

[bbninjas]

And yeah bbninjas, that post of GM Grac is ideed old. That's why I asked him about what he thinks now. What's your point?

I was referring to your post being dod.

@bbninjas, you just asked masons to claim and then said they should wait until later before claiming. Which is it?

The issue I'm having is that TGK hasn't even said that someone can verify his claim, and noone has hinted at being mason buddies. Jesi in particular ignored that completely. We could avoid lynching town who we could instead clear, but the fact that absolutely noone has spoken up about anything that could confirm TGK as a mason - including himself - confuses me greatly and is making me lean big on that being a false claim of TGK's.