Finished Werewolf XXXIII: Order in the Court!- Congratulations Law!

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@ Jabberwock

"I believe it was you who said "I'm probably going to get called out for XXX" helps no one"
That was me iirc.

Anyways, I think Jabber brought up all legit points on Celever and most posts I find (or found) suspicious or odd. There was a couple that I think there is a logical explanation for, like the saying Camo is playing neutral meta and then scum meta, because it could've been more the fact that Camo doesn't tunnel as much as town. (Which may or may not be true, I'm not sure.)

My issue is that I don't feel like those scummy posts are enough ground for a lynch. I think they're more useful later in the game if he is still alive, and then can be used to lynch him along with any other consistencies.

And the more nitpicky stuff:

Jabberwock said:
Camo pushing for his lynch late Day 1/early Day 2 or thereabouts. This seems really close to WIFOM to me, though.
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This is my opinion on WIFOM, and why I feel like you're misusing the term "WIFOM": Everything in WW is WIFOM. Cases especially can be turned into WIFOM by any skilled player. I personally think WIFOM is generally only a tell when someone is suggesting a point is invalid because it could be true, however the suggest scenario is unlikely. I think WIFOM is a legitimate when suggesting a point is invalid because of a scenario that is likely true.

I'm also unsure why you didn't comment on the points of "Camo trying to get Celever lynched" and "Celever trying to get discussion happening".

tl;dr While Celever has made some scummy plays, I don't think it is enough to warrant a lynch this early into the game. I think this points could become valid late game, but right now, there is too much pro-town stuff Celever has done in my opinion, and thus I am thinking Celever is town atm.
 
Also, something else that makes me question the King X lynch is why he didn't just push for the Celever lynch to save himself.
 
I'm trying to think of why grant is town*. Some help would be great! ^.^

*I think that looking at the reasons of why someone is town is just as important as looking at the reasons of why someone is scummy. This is because town do scummy things, but scum have to go out of their way to do townie things.
 
Celever said:
@GM DracLord, your reasoning for voting for me was because everyone else was and there weren't any alternatives. Well, now I'm tied with Xerneas and grant, and the latter is someone you've never talked about yet. Want to share thoughts before deadline?

Or maybe I should have phrased that better, since "want" implies you have a choice. :p It's fine if you vote for me, just justify it, please. Your one piece of reasoning has now been removed.
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I stand with my earlier reasons on why I'm voting for you. I'm stubborn that way. I have no comment much on KX since I knew almost nothing about the way he reacts
 
GM DracLord said:
I stand with my earlier reasons on why I'm voting for you. I'm stubborn that way. I have no comment much on KX since I knew almost nothing about the way he reacts
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This is true @Celever

Was waiting for GM Drac to post before I mentioned this; but Drac has given more reasons than just the one you listed on why you are scummy.

Do you have comment on grant @GM DracLord ? I think you've been playing with him longer than I have. :3
 
grantm1999 said:
- blamed for interactions with camo and EM (who I subbed for, doesn't really apply to me much especially bc camo likes going after new players. saying EM/me is scum because of that is so random and shot in the dark its not even funny)
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This is the main reason I voted for you. The point is that scum Camo would actually want a player like EM alive because he distracts town. However - Question to @bbninjas who suggested that point- I've just checked WW Melee where Camo was scum- He went for EM. He pressured him the very first day. Isn't that contradicts that point?
Without this point, the case on grant is weak imo. The point of lurking is really the only one that has left and that's not a great one.

The other point on KX about his safe claim is also invalid since the scum team couldn't know PP is the one behind the role name on KX' list. So, I need to look back. The problem is that we have zero time.

(You guys really ignored my case on GM DracLord, can you read it again and tell me it's not a stronger case than all of the other 3? I don't want to vote GM Drac for nothing)
 
bbninjas said:
This is true @Celever

Was waiting for GM Drac to post before I mentioned this; but Drac has given more reasons than just the one you listed on why you are scummy.

Do you have comment on grant @GM DracLord ? I think you've been playing with him longer than I have. :3
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Unfortunately my memory of him is either he got killed/lynched early or not playing till the end.
I think it's been a while since I played with him for longer period
 
scattered mind said:
This is the main reason I voted for you. The point is that scum Camo would actually want a player like EM alive because he distracts town. However - Question to @bbninjas who suggested that point- I've just checked WW Melee where Camo was scum- He went for EM. He pressured him the very first day. Isn't that contradicts that point?
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Oh, if it was in Melee, that explains things, because I didn't really participate in that game. :/ Was EM new in that game? If he was new, that could explain things, and also when EM got pushed. If the issues EM could make for town were not known before Camo pressured, then Camo may have just been pressuring a town player. If there was a scumbuddy in the lynch position, did Camo go for EM to push for an easy lynch whilst saving a scumbuddy?

Without this point, the case on grant is weak imo. The point of lurking is really the only one that has left and that's not a great one.
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The lurking isn't a strong point, but the type of vibe that I'm at least getting across from Grant's posts is off too.

(You guys really ignored my case on GM DracLord, can you read it again and tell me it's not a stronger case than all of the other 3? I don't want to vote GM Drac for nothing)
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You posted a case on GM Drac? o.o

GM Drac has been one of my scum reads. >.<;
 
Hmm I need to check if that was the first game EM played. If so, the point is valid again. I didn't think about that. And btw in that game, Camo pushing for EM was an RVS that turned into a case in the very first posts of Day 1.
 
Whoops forgot to post this:

Found the case. So, I think the case is legit, but there's isn't time to pursue it now unfortunately. Definitely something to look into during the next day. A question on my side, because there was two players that were particularly adamant on "you must make a case before I say why I'm town". Was that you (scattered) and Drac?
 
bbninjas said:
Whoops forgot to post this:

Found the case. So, I think the case is legit, but there's isn't time to pursue it now unfortunately. Definitely something to look into during the next day. A question on my side, because there was two players that were particularly adamant on "you must make a case before I say why I'm town". Was that you (scattered) and Drac?
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I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.
 
scattered mind said:
I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.
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Remember when I asked something similar "can the players on my list give some reasons on why they are town"? Who were the people that were like "you have no case on me, so I don't need to give reasons"?
 
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