What Does Nostalgia Mean For Pokémon?

[crystal_pidgeot]

This is a serious question and one that I've been thinking about lately. If this thread is better off in the TCG area then please move it there.

Since the beginning of this year, TPC/i has been in overdrive mode to show us Genwunners that "we love you all and want to show it by giving back" and want to do so by appealing to our nostalgia, but what does this mean? We all love certain Pokemon and while we love Pokemon as a whole, Grimer (for some I should say) isn't the reason we get out of bed.

For me, that Pokemon is Vaporeon and Pidgeot. I really love these two Pokemon and at times, more than I should which can be quite annoying for some. "Oh my god, shut the hell up, I'm so tired of hearing you talk about Pidgeot all the time!" Trust me, I know the feeling but this is a Pokemon I want to see more done with so when TPC/i wants to give us throwbacks, the nostalgia in me just starts overflowing and I say "maybe I can get that Pidgeot ultra rare card now! I got Vaporeon, though it sucked, I got one! Now for some of you, it may be a Pokemon like Hitmonchan, Arcanine, Ninetales, Magnaton or some other Pokemon that is well loved.

My aggressive campaign for Pidgeot isn't completely odd since Pidgeot is considered a fan favorite and is one of the most popular non legendary bird Pokemon, one could expect that is would have at least a card now, with all the gen one pandering right? Well, bird Pokemon get shafted a lot. Not even Talonflame has a EX card in its own generation, which is almost ending. Needless to say nostalgia means something different to everyone!

The problem is TPC/i seems to think differently. To the guys at the top, they seem to think nostalgia means... Just print a bunch of Charizard cards! Now this is a odd question to make but can you even call Charizard nostalgic at this point? He's everywhere and to the current generation, they may know Charizard better than us genwunners! Charizard has 13 cards alone in the XY series, not including the new ones getting printed in upcoming sets. To put this into perspective, Greninja has 7 cards.

Now this thread isn't supposed to be Charizard hate but I feel there is some disconnect with the fans of gen one. We love Charizard too but its not a huge favorite of ours. Then Gengar tier Pokemon, i.e. the fan favorite tier are often left out in favor of Charizard and sometimes Mewtwo.

Pokemon I consider the fan favorite tier from Gen one are Pidgeot, Arcanine, Alakazam, Gengar, Dragonite, Hitmons, Kangaskhan, Snorlax, Aerodactyl, Scyther, Ninetale, Nidos and some others I'm forgetting but a lot of people have a lot of love for these Pokemon and certainly have more nostalgia than Charizard but they are passed up for the former.

XY 12 is dubbed our throwback set for the older fans with 12 EX Pokemon AND 5 mega Evolved Pokemon, which is huge because no set had more than 2 species that could mega evolve. Even Camerupt and Sharpedo got shafted because they never got their megas in card form. Out of those 5 mega evolution cards we know 4 with 3 spots being held by gen 1 starters, who have as many cards as Greninja. Its nice to see Slowbro get its mega. Its deserving of it but that still leave Pidgeot and Pinsir who may or may not get their card and these Pokemon are loved by many as well. Whats to make things even worse, Charizard could also take the slot of the last unknown mega Pokemon since it has 2 of them.

Not that this is gen one related but there are still many fans of Pokemon who are still waiting for Lopunny EX and its mega, Latias EX and its mega, or for Camerupt to get its mega but we keep getting Charizards.

I want to know how the community feels about this, especially those from the generation this set is targeted at. Does Charizard strike your nostalgia bone or does some other Pokemon from gen one do?

 

[Pikachu6319]

I'm not entirely sure I'd say it's just us gen one people. Shaymin EX is not gen 1, and out of all they mythical collections only Mew is gen 1. I mean where are Zapdos, Moltres and Articuno? Still yes, there is a heavy emphasis on it.

Now I have to say I like Charizard more than, for example' Gengar, the Hitmons, Kangaskhan, Snorlax, the Nidos or (sorry CP) Pidgeot. That being said, I do think unless they want to do something neat with Charizard, like make it colorless, it seems pointless to do another version of them so soon. Same thing with Venusaur where they make it 'psychic' instead of grass. Same with Blastoise where they....oh wait, they don't have any alternatives there. But yes I think Charizard and Mewtwo have gotten more than enough attention for this generation.

Now we don't know that the last EX/Mega in XY12 is going to be another Charizard. Let's keep in mind we have two Charizard X's (one of each type) and one Charizard Y already. They might be satisfied with only one new Charizard Y. But even then our choices are Pidgeot or Pinsir as the mega. As for EX's itself we still have a few untouched gen 1 options? I mean how about Poliwrath EX? Or Rapidash EX? Or Dewgong EX?

Yeah true Talonflame hasn't gotten anything in it's own generation but that applies to quite a lot of Pokémon. Where is Pangoro EX? Noibat EX? Goodra EX? Gogoat EX? Pyroar EX? I mean any of those would have been better IMO than Hawlucha EX and that's just in the most recent generation. Sometimes that's just the breaks.

I disagree heavily on the fact we haven't gotten megas for Sharpedo and Camerupt since they made their appearance in Primal Clash and I really want Latias EX. If we're lucky will still get those in the future.

 

[Athena]

Moved to TCG Discussion as it is a more appropriate venue for the discussion. ~Athena

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I'm not entirely sure I'd say it's just us gen one people. Shaymin EX is not gen 1, and out of all they mythical collections only Mew is gen 1. I mean where are Zapdos, Moltres and Articuno? Still yes, there is a heavy emphasis on it.

I tend to not include legendary Pokemon because they are always relevant.

Now I have to say I like Charizard more than, for example' Gengar, the Hitmons, Kangaskhan, Snorlax, the Nidos or (sorry CP) Pidgeot. That being said, I do think unless they want to do something neat with Charizard, like make it colorless, it seems pointless to do another version of them so soon. Same thing with Venusaur where they make it 'psychic' instead of grass. Same with Blastoise where they....oh wait, they don't have any alternatives there. But yes I think Charizard and Mewtwo have gotten more than enough attention for this generation.

This is true. I like Charizard more than most gen one Pokemon, and I think thats true for most people. While not everyone likes the pokemon you listed, these Pokemon were important to Gen one. Most People finished the game with a Pidgeot on their team. Everyone had a Snorlax and remember it because of what it did to you in game and everyone had a Hitmon. The Safari Zone was also great too and had a anime tie in all about Kangaskhan. Also in the anime, charizard was very unlikable but it gets all the attention.

Also now that you say something about it, a 'Psychic' Venusaur EX card would be sick with a Grass/Psychic mega. That would be the cool thing to do.

Now we don't know that the last EX/Mega in XY12 is going to be another Charizard. Let's keep in mind we have two Charizard X's (one of each type) and one Charizard Y already. They might be satisfied with only one new Charizard Y. But even then our choices are Pidgeot or Pinsir as the mega. As for EX's itself we still have a few untouched gen 1 options? I mean how about Poliwrath EX? Or Rapidash EX? Or Dewgong EX?

Yeah, everyone seems to want it to be Pidgeot considering what happened with Roaring Skies. Pidgeot is generally more likeable than Pinsir but the way they are picking cards are a problem. Right now, the starters are holding up yet another 6 ultra rare slots, not including full arts and secret rares. I would kill for a full art pidgeot ex and mega but this might not happen. The set is said to have 12 EX cards and 5 megas so one or two things can happen. Either Pidgeot or Pinsir will get the mega (assuming the fifth isn't the other mega Charizard) or neither of them will get their mega, which wouldn't be an isolated situation because this happened with both Camerupt and Sharpedo but this set has 5 mega pokemon as apposed to the 2 each other set had but we still have to keep the real possibility that the 5th mega could be the other Charizard, though I want Pidgeot. The only right thing to do here is just put all the gen 1 mega Pokemon in this set and not make them promos. We also have to assume the mega mechanic will last into Sun and Moon because not every Pokemon who has a mega has TCG representation yet. Those Pokemon you listed would be good for EX cards as well.

Yeah true Talonflame hasn't gotten anything in it's own generation but that applies to quite a lot of Pokémon. Where is Pangoro EX? Noibat EX? Goodra EX? Gogoat EX? Pyroar EX? I mean any of those would have been better IMO than Hawlucha EX and that's just in the most recent generation. Sometimes that's just the breaks.

This is also a fair point. I would have loved to see a lot of XY Pokemon get EX cards but we have to have Charizard EX and Mewtwo EX right?

I disagree heavily on the fact we haven't gotten megas for Sharpedo and Camerupt since they made their appearance in Primal Clash and I really want Latias EX. If we're lucky will still get those in the future.

I'm not sure what you disagree with. We have had mega Pokemon since the start of XY. If anything, their enforced rule of 2 megas a set should be to blame and how they are handling which Pokemon gets a card. Ive never been a fan of promo megas as their only mega. I really do want my Latias EX too but as of now, there is no reason to assume mega evolution will stop in Sun and Moon.

 

[Pikachu6319]

I think you're misreading that last sentence. I'm basically saying I disagree heavily on the fact that Sharpedo and Camerupt haven't gotten megas when they very well should have gotten them already since they appeared in Primal Clash. I had hoped maybe they would have been secret rares in Double Crisis but we all know how that worked out.

I would prefer to get Pidgeot over Pinsir too.

I didn't have a Pidgeot on my first team, but I know I've trained a few since. I however never had a Hitmon on my team, back then I didn't really care for fighting Pokémon. Even now I prefer a fighting type be dual typed with something else.

As of now I fully expect Sun and Moon to have megas, I just figure that will be like practically last minute info. Sadly though with a few exceptions (ie Gen 1 starters, Mewtwo and apparently Gardevoir) all megas have only one card if that.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I think you're misreading that last sentence. I'm basically saying I disagree heavily on the fact that Sharpedo and Camerupt haven't gotten megas when they very well should have gotten them already since they appeared in Primal Clash. I had hoped maybe they would have been secret rares in Double Crisis but we all know how that worked out.

I would prefer to get Pidgeot over Pinsir too.

I didn't have a Pidgeot on my first team, but I know I've trained a few since. I however never had a Hitmon on my team, back then I didn't really care for fighting Pokémon. Even now I prefer a fighting type be dual typed with something else.

As of now I fully expect Sun and Moon to have megas, I just figure that will be like practically last minute info. Sadly though with a few exceptions (ie Gen 1 starters, Mewtwo and apparently Gardevoir) all megas have only one card if that.

Oh, yeah I misunderstood that. I think that only happened because of a 2 mega per set rule, which hurt Pokemon TCG as a whole since not many Pokemon got their EX and mega but glad to see we agree here though.

 

[StriatonIsMagic]

I'm not entirely sure I'd say it's just us gen one people. Shaymin EX is not gen 1, and out of all they mythical collections only Mew is gen 1. I mean where are Zapdos, Moltres and Articuno? Still yes, there is a heavy emphasis on it.

Now I have to say I like Charizard more than, for example' Gengar, the Hitmons, Kangaskhan, Snorlax, the Nidos or (sorry CP) Pidgeot. That being said, I do think unless they want to do something neat with Charizard, like make it colorless, it seems pointless to do another version of them so soon. Same thing with Venusaur where they make it 'psychic' instead of grass. Same with Blastoise where they....oh wait, they don't have any alternatives there. But yes I think Charizard and Mewtwo have gotten more than enough attention for this generation.

Now we don't know that the last EX/Mega in XY12 is going to be another Charizard. Let's keep in mind we have two Charizard X's (one of each type) and one Charizard Y already. They might be satisfied with only one new Charizard Y. But even then our choices are Pidgeot or Pinsir as the mega. As for EX's itself we still have a few untouched gen 1 options? I mean how about Poliwrath EX? Or Rapidash EX? Or Dewgong EX?

Yeah true Talonflame hasn't gotten anything in it's own generation but that applies to quite a lot of Pokémon. Where is Pangoro EX? Noibat EX? Goodra EX? Gogoat EX? Pyroar EX? I mean any of those would have been better IMO than Hawlucha EX and that's just in the most recent generation. Sometimes that's just the breaks.

I disagree heavily on the fact we haven't gotten megas for Sharpedo and Camerupt since they made their appearance in Primal Clash and I really want Latias EX. If we're lucky will still get those in the future.

The Mythical Collections are for Mythical Pokemon only. Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres are not Mythicals.

Though I'm a GenVr (is that what you call people who began interest in Pokemon in Gen Five?), I have a soft spot for some Kanto Pokemon. Mainly Mew, Articuno, Ninetales, Rapidash, and Vaporeon.

 

[Pikachu6319]

The Mythical Collections are for Mythical Pokemon only. Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres are not Mythicals.

They left out two then; Deoxys and Phione, though some don't consider Phione as a mythical Pokémon.

Also, prior to gen V mythical Pokemon and legendary Pokémon were actually considered the same thing outside of Japan. If they really wanted to harken back to gen 1 days for the anniversary then the distinction would be beside the point.

 

[StriatonIsMagic]

They left out two then; Deoxys and Phione, though some don't consider Phione as a mythical Pokémon.

Also, prior to gen V mythical Pokemon and legendary Pokémon were actually considered the same thing outside of Japan. If they really wanted to harken back to gen 1 days for the anniversary then the distinction would be beside the point.

They had to leave two Mythicals out because there's only 12 months in a year, and the anniversary was in Febuary.

 

[steffenka]

They left out two then; Deoxys and Phione, though some don't consider Phione as a mythical Pokémon.

There's also the fact that Deoxys was available in ORAS, so it's status as a Mythical Pokémon might be up for question.

I also feel like, some of the more nostalgic/older Pokémon are getting quite a bunch of cards, because of them being rather easy to just put on a card, and have it look decent, if not better, where I feel like some Pokémon like Pidgeot, Camerupt and to some extent Lopunny are harder to put on a card, and it looking as good/marketable.

 

[Pikachu6319]

They had to leave two Mythicals out because there's only 12 months in a year, and the anniversary was in Febuary.

True, except for in December they released the Pikachu EX and Hoopa EX that covered a lot of those other Pokémon like the dragons and Regigigas. They could have added made another or added them in somewhere. Granted they aren't officially part of the mythical stuff but they share the same style and might as well be.

There is also the matter of Arceus, who is not only part of that but is also part of the Mythical Collection boxes. Granted, it is the only one who got into these twice.

Steffenka is right in the fact that it Deoxys was available in ORAS. But it wasn't that way with Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and at least by tradition it should have been part of it. He's also right that some of those are more, for lack of better terms, photogenic than others. Of course the loophole there is that we already got Camerupt EX in Primal Clash, they just failed to deliver the mega. If that was the case they should have picked something else to fill that spot.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Yeah, before gen 5 was a thing, all Pokemon were legendary to me and only recently mythical Pokemon surfaced. However it does seem that people believed that mega evolved Pokemon were handled poorly in general. I wanted to know what nostalgia means for Pokemon players and now I see that means a lot for a lot of players. Many players are wanting Pokemon they like to be printed and now that I think about it, Arceus hasn't had a card since what, the DP series.

@steffenka, I'm not sure what you mean by easy to print. What I was asking is what does nostalgia mean for players because at this point, can you even count charizard, blastoise, venusaur and mewtwo as nostalgic when other Pokemon that were in the forefront are more deserving.

 

[steffenka]

I'm not sure what you mean by easy to print. What I was asking is what does nostalgia mean for players because at this point, can you even count charizard, blastoise, venusaur and mewtwo as nostalgic when other Pokemon that were in the forefront are more deserving.

What I mean is that, yes Pidgeot and others also have nostalgic value, but I think that if Pokémon want to appeal to the older audience with nostalgic Pokémon, they have to choose some their younger audience will appeal to too, otherwise they would most likely lose out on quite a bunch of money. Not to bash on Pidgeot, but to (some) children and others, Pidgeot might just seem like an ordinary, boring, early-route bird, whereas Charizard, a fire-breathing dragon, is a starter, and a Pokémon they are more likely to remember, as they probably took it along their journey across wherever. The same with Mewtwo, it's a cool-looking legendary Pokémon, who a lot of people (old and young) will recognize. Of course, there are other Pokémon that are more deserving of EX (and other noteworthy) cards, for example, I would love to see Hypno-EX, but you can't deny that the four you mentioned aren't as nostalgic to players, than say Butterfree or Fearow, when thousands of children chose one of them as their first Pokémon or captured Mewtwo after 57 attempts. I feel like, just looking at nostalgia, lots of Pokémon who were in the forefront deserve better cards, but from a marketing standpoint, nostalgia means focus on what makes the money. Hope it makes sense

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

What I mean is that, yes Pidgeot and others also have nostalgic value, but I think that if Pokémon want to appeal to the older audience with nostalgic Pokémon, they have to choose some their younger audience will appeal to too, otherwise they would most likely lose out on quite a bunch of money. Not to bash on Pidgeot, but to (some) children and others, Pidgeot might just seem like an ordinary, boring, early-route bird, whereas Charizard, a fire-breathing dragon, is a starter, and a Pokémon they are more likely to remember, as they probably took it along their journey across wherever. The same with Mewtwo, it's a cool-looking legendary Pokémon, who a lot of people (old and young) will recognize. Of course, there are other Pokémon that are more deserving of EX (and other noteworthy) cards, for example, I would love to see Hypno-EX, but you can't deny that the four you mentioned aren't as nostalgic to players, than say Butterfree or Fearow, when thousands of children chose one of them as their first Pokémon or captured Mewtwo after 57 attempts. I feel like, just looking at nostalgia, lots of Pokémon who were in the forefront deserve better cards, but from a marketing standpoint, nostalgia means focus on what makes the money. Hope it makes sense

Just to say this, I dont want to make this about Pidgeot so sorry if I did that, it was just my example was to say it was on a lot of teams ending the game, making it a Pokemon people would remember, not including anime tie ins.While we're speaking of Mewtwo, I just realized the 5th mega could also be a mega mewtwo. Its true that what sells is what will get printed but for me, and Im sure with others as well, I didn't buy any packs from the set the 10 ultra rare mewtwos were in because I didn't want to open any, and while not trying to sound like a hipster, I was just tired of Mewtwo and to be honest, I would much rather have more venusaur and blastoise cards more because of how often they use Charizard despite me loving Charizard much more.

As of now, there are 12 EX Pokemon with 3 being the starters and Slowbro and at this point, I have to assume mewtwo and dragonite so there should be 6 other ones so maybe we'll get Butterfree EX and Hypno EX. I know Otaku is waiting for his Snorlax EX and I hope he gets it but this is what I mean when we hear they are making these throwbacks for the fans because we all want something other than the 3 starters and mewtwo and want to see some of our old favorites comeback and maybe gain new respect.

 

[Pikachu6319]

I see no reason to expect a Mewtwo EX or M. Mewtwo EX for XY12. If it was going to be in the set it would have been announced along with the starters, at least I think so.

 

[Seodor]

I see no reason to expect a Mewtwo EX or M. Mewtwo EX for XY12. If it was going to be in the set it would have been announced along with the starters, at least I think so.

Given the $80 box that got announced, I'd be surprised if they felt the need to include Mew/Mewtwo in the XY12 set as well, although I don't recall if there's a Japanese equivalent or not. It'd be nice to have a basic, usable version of Mewtwo, though. The ones that came in the boxes weren't usable and become even less so with the loss of Dimension Valley in Standard in the Fall.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I see no reason to expect a Mewtwo EX or M. Mewtwo EX for XY12. If it was going to be in the set it would have been announced along with the starters, at least I think so.

I don't see a reason for them to have another Charizard, Blastoise and Venusaur EX and their mega holding collectively 6 spots (possibly 7 to 8 if they feel the need for another charizard EX) when both Pidgeot and Pinsir are dying for their EX and mega and a handful of other gen 1 Pokemon wanting a ultra rare. Heck, they could even give them both 2 mega cards! I know it won't happen but it would be nice but it sucks when either Pidgeot or Pinsir will get their mega or not getting it at all.

 

[Pikachu6319]

Actually, I may be in the minority here but if they were to make a M. Mewtwo (X) EX as a fighting type Pokémon I'd be okay with that. I love alternate types myself. Of course that opens up a whole new discussion.

Maybe they'll be smart this time around and make spirit links for Charizard, Blastoise and Venusaur. Should have done that in Generations.

There have been gen 1 (and other gen) Pokémon wanting Ultra rares since this started back in R/S/E era. Rapidash, Tentacruel, Victreebel, Sandslash, Dewgong the Nidos, Poliwrath, Omastar and yes Pidgeot, and Pinsir and this all just from 1st gen. Of course don't forget that Kangaskhan and Alakazam never got an EX until mega evolution.

But we already know that these things aren't fair, it took 16 YEARS before we got a non-water Tenatacruel line. And we haven't gotten a colorless Charizard (crystal notwithstanding) I'm still waiting for my psychic Delphox and fighting Chestnaught, to say nothing about a fighting Blaziken that isn't an outdated EX, I mean we've had 16 Blaziken cards and only 1 fighting type among them.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Actually, I may be in the minority here but if they were to make a M. Mewtwo (X) EX as a fighting type Pokémon I'd be okay with that. I love alternate types myself. Of course that opens up a whole new discussion.

Maybe they'll be smart this time around and make spirit links for Charizard, Blastoise and Venusaur. Should have done that in Generations.

There have been gen 1 (and other gen) Pokémon wanting Ultra rares since this started back in R/S/E era. Rapidash, Tentacruel, Victreebel, Sandslash, Dewgong the Nidos, Poliwrath, Omastar and yes Pidgeot, and Pinsir and this all just from 1st gen. Of course don't forget that Kangaskhan and Alakazam never got an EX until mega evolution.

But we already know that these things aren't fair, it took 16 YEARS before we got a non-water Tenatacruel line. And we haven't gotten a colorless Charizard (crystal notwithstanding) I'm still waiting for my psychic Delphox and fighting Chestnaught, to say nothing about a fighting Blaziken that isn't an outdated EX, I mean we've had 16 Blaziken cards and only 1 fighting type among them.

Yeah, a lot of good points and since duel type came back to the game, there is no reason we can't duel type most of these Pokemon. To be honest though, a Pokemon having the colorless typing is just bad. I really wish they just make the flying type a card now.

Not going to lie though, Sandslash EX would be sick. Victreebel would be nice too and since oddball Pokemon like Glalie got and EX (not including its mega status), there is no reason for the latter to not have one.

 

[Pikachu6319]

Yeah, a lot of good points and since duel type came back to the game, there is no reason we can't duel type most of these Pokemon. To be honest though, a Pokemon having the colorless typing is just bad. I really wish they just make the flying type a card now.

I don't mean making M. Mewtwo EX a dual type like they did with Volcanion EX. I mean making that card a pure fighting type Pokémon. Personally I don't really like the dual type mechanic, though it's a personal opinion that I can't really explain.

You know on one hand I wouldn't mind seeing it. But from a game design perspective and possibly even a play perspective can you imagine how much of a headache that would be. Flying is after all one of the third highest type in the game (behind normal and water I believe). How many cards would have to be revamped for the type? How many would never be revamped, hence drawing people like me to want that to happen? How many other cards have to be changed to accomdate for weakness, some grass and fighting no doubt. Are they weak to water (ice) or fighting (rock) despite the latter also being weak to on the fighting side? Or are they all weak to lightning, hence resulting in a potentially doomed match up like we see with water vs. fire? I mean they can't even make fire weak to anything other than water, it's been that way since Gen 1.

And why just flying? Shouldn't ice get a chance? Rock? I mean where do they stop with that? I mean there are 18 different types, 11 of which are represented if we count colorless as a type (I think it was meant to add some variety to decks and for the longest time was never meant to be considered a type) and dragon despite it's lack of real energy. Another type or two added in randomly might just complicate things for the game.

I mean yeah it would be cool but somewhat unneeded. I still don't quite know why they made dragon it's own type, especially since it doesn't get it's own basic energy. My guess is because they knew fairy would be coming in gen 6 and wanted to have that specific pattern there, which is why dragons went from being weak to itself to weak to fairy. It's just lucky that fairy isn't completely immune to dragon in TCG as they are in TVG.