I've always been curios at what effect or ability on a Pokemon that trainers would like to see adjusted or outright disbanded from the game? Or if your generally happy with the game mechanics, I'd love to hear your insight behind it too.
Fun What Effect / Ability Needs to Go?
- Thread starter poke4trade
- Start date
I don't like coin flips that determine important things. Flip a coin if heads, this attack does 20 more damage, sure that's fine. But if it's like Crushing Hammer where it's flip a coin, if tails, a card in your deck goes to waste. I agree that Crushing Hammer would be broken without the flip, and I agree that if it's not coin flips, there should definitely be something to nerf the effect, but I don't like it when someone plays all 4 Crushing Hammers and gets 4 tails in a row. I also don't like it when they get all 4 heads. I just like things being somewhat predictable so that you can plan out your strategy effectively. I want to know (to some extent at least) what I'm going to get out of a card before I play it, but that's just me.
@Mora Hahahaha...Everybody knows how I feel about the pokemon, but the effect of the pokemon I don't mind. It's just the effect is activated with such minimal resources on a very already hard to knock out pokemon. I mean girtinia takes a bit more to charge, and sits at 170hp. One DCE for 180 ugh...
I total agree with you on crushing hammer, in the next set I already see Pokemon trying to fix it with Togakiss and Garchomp.
-- Ideas For Fix
I believe on heads it should only be aloud to remove a basic energy versus a special energy. I think the opponent should be forced to slow down their deck by placing enhanced hammer in it, or forcing him to burn the Supporter (Xerosic/Team Flare) to remove it. But I don't believe the heads should allow for a special energy removal. Special energy is just too precious in decks to be so easily targeted by every energy removal card pokemon comes up.
@bbninjas Agreed. It is just so hard to evolve, and than, finally get to use that ability, and bam, gets killed before you even get a chance to use it on a stage one evolution and a tool card. Really? Pokemon loves Garbodor so much so, that cynically I believe it should have a break card with it in the set.
I agree with taking away coin flips as a balancing mechanic. For attacks like Maxamar and Tumbling Attack it can be fun, but in competitive play, this as a TCG already has a very large luck element without putting those sorts of conditions in. Things like Crushing Hammer and Super Scoop-Up can win games, but I would want that to be because of a player's skill, rather than their luck at rolling a die or flipping a coin.
Uh... I think you didn't understand me properly. I'm saying it is too easy to set up the Ability not the other way around. >.>;
I think I do, I just wrote a lousy paragraph, sorry. I agree it is too easy to setup Garbadors ability. I was talking about how hard it was for stage 2's to evolve and setup their abilities, and how easy it is for garbador to kill it with their abilities. Because of this, I think that it kills rouge decks too. I believe the ability locking should be a bit more random too, coin flip, or just turn garbador into a stage 2 evolution. I think I got it? Maybe? Hopefully? Uhgg...I try.
Everything is fine the way it is, I wished some item cards were supporters and supporters were item cards, like fisherman could have been superior energy retrieval re-print or battle compressor could have been a supporter, just simple things like that.
I absolutely agree. I played Giratina-EX at a cities event and lost to Night March (which is a perfect match-up for Giratina-EX) just because they drew all their super scoop ups, managed to get heads on all of them and their Birch's and drew through their entire deck with Shaymin-EXs (they didn't get a single tails, not even on the coin flip).
For things like Hammers, I could see it changed so it only effects the active or flip heads active, tails bench. That way, it's luck which one gets the energy discarded, or you have to use a Lysandre to discard from the one you want.
My biggest problem is they need to give evolutions (stage 2 in particular) some love to make them easier to get out. Practically since Rare Candy was nerfed, big basics have ruled, and Evosoda/Wally/Delta Evo/current Rare Candy just aren't enough for Stage 2 in terms of speed.
Think I'd like them to nerf shaymin EX as well. There's too much draw power atm. I'd likely make it a draw 3 cards like Tierno. Still leaves it some power, but not the crazy amount it has now.
My biggest problem is they need to give evolutions (stage 2 in particular) some love to make them easier to get out. Practically since Rare Candy was nerfed, big basics have ruled, and Evosoda/Wally/Delta Evo/current Rare Candy just aren't enough for Stage 2 in terms of speed.
Think I'd like them to nerf shaymin EX as well. There's too much draw power atm. I'd likely make it a draw 3 cards like Tierno. Still leaves it some power, but not the crazy amount it has now.
I also agree on Crushing Hammer flips. I think the best way to settle it is to make it flip-less while only discarding a basic energy from your opponent's Active Pokemon, considering there's Max Elixir.
And I think there are advantages in geting out Stage 2s for some type of Pokemon, like Grass, Fighting, and Water types. They can be in the bench in turn 1, and other types have to pass 1 turn to set them up. And it's just unfair, they each even have two cards to help set up, with the new Immunizer.
And finally, BREAK Pokemon. They really need some support, we minimally need two turns (except for Grass) to set them up, and that's just like the issue above.
And I think there are advantages in geting out Stage 2s for some type of Pokemon, like Grass, Fighting, and Water types. They can be in the bench in turn 1, and other types have to pass 1 turn to set them up. And it's just unfair, they each even have two cards to help set up, with the new Immunizer.
And finally, BREAK Pokemon. They really need some support, we minimally need two turns (except for Grass) to set them up, and that's just like the issue above.
I like the idea of battle compressor being a supporter.
Not sure if this is on topic, but the pacing of the game is off. We should have first turn attacks. The reason they are gone is because of pacing; the card pool back when this rules change went into effect (and it is probably worse now) simply reaches problematic other mechanics far too quickly. It isn't that we have a problem because attacks can reach OHKO range or because you can force something from the Bench into the Active slot, it is because we had (and still have) a card pool where that is far too easy/reliable to accomplish on T1.
So what if everything was a bit slower? It wasn't so easy to rip through large parts of your deck in a single turn (or at least not first turn), the card pool didn't have as much in the way of Energy acceleration or easy to play/stack damage buffs and the designers kept what was available in mind while designing cards. Doing this, while it would mean little-to-nothing until the current card pool rotated out, eventually we get to the point where first turn attacks can be about setting up. From there just make sure the best attacks for setting up appear on cards that are not going to double as serious, offense minded attackers and much like the idea of minimizing things like critical effects determined through coin flips, you get a more stable and enjoyable game.
So what if everything was a bit slower? It wasn't so easy to rip through large parts of your deck in a single turn (or at least not first turn), the card pool didn't have as much in the way of Energy acceleration or easy to play/stack damage buffs and the designers kept what was available in mind while designing cards. Doing this, while it would mean little-to-nothing until the current card pool rotated out, eventually we get to the point where first turn attacks can be about setting up. From there just make sure the best attacks for setting up appear on cards that are not going to double as serious, offense minded attackers and much like the idea of minimizing things like critical effects determined through coin flips, you get a more stable and enjoyable game.
As strange as it sounds, I want Set Up to go. Imagine this common conversation:
"Hey, what's a cheap, entry-level deck I can buy?"
"Well, in standard, you need 3 or 4 Shaymins per deck."
"How much is a Shaymin? $10?"
"$65"
"Oh...."
Outside of providing a monetary barrier of entry to the game, it also makes the game too darn fast, leaving things like M Gardevoir and Primal Kyogre unplayable, despite being fantastic cards in a slower format. Shaymin makes life extremely difficult for every deck that doesn't attack on turn 1 by providing easy, effective draw that allows you to not waste your supporter and just draw cards. Combined with the Explosive item draw and low energy-high damage attacks and Shaymin is too much.
Octillery is fine because it takes a turn to get into the field.
Can't wait to see if @Otaku has any comments on this. I always look forward to reading his posts.
"Hey, what's a cheap, entry-level deck I can buy?"
"Well, in standard, you need 3 or 4 Shaymins per deck."
"How much is a Shaymin? $10?"
"$65"
"Oh...."
Outside of providing a monetary barrier of entry to the game, it also makes the game too darn fast, leaving things like M Gardevoir and Primal Kyogre unplayable, despite being fantastic cards in a slower format. Shaymin makes life extremely difficult for every deck that doesn't attack on turn 1 by providing easy, effective draw that allows you to not waste your supporter and just draw cards. Combined with the Explosive item draw and low energy-high damage attacks and Shaymin is too much.
Octillery is fine because it takes a turn to get into the field.
Can't wait to see if @Otaku has any comments on this. I always look forward to reading his posts.
You only need 1-2 shaymin per deck..... because thank you for the game I'll take my 3 points and win by only blowing up all of your shaymins. Shaymin does make life easier but a ton of people have lost top 8 games just from miss playing shaymin, in decks like rai/bats, night march and vespiquen all it takes is that one shaymin ko to win the game. So let me ask you what is shaymin worth playing versus an extra supporter which can offer the same thing for when you need it.
One to two Shaymin is still a lot considering they can fetch up to $60! I personally agree with TGK.
Didn't I do that right before you posted?
Don't mistake someone who wants the game to require "setting up" for someone who likes the overall impact caused by Shaymin-EX (ROS) and its "Setup" Ability. A lot of card are less of a problem when you can't rip through so much of your deck to access said cards in a single turn. Yeah yeah, I sound horrible because it seems like I can't enjoy anything in the Pokémon TCG. Well, maybe that is true; I've been at it long enough that stuff I used to be able to ignore or that I thought wasn't a problem, now I do. On the other hand there are still changes that I think were a step in the right direction for the Pokémon TCG, but for "faster" TCGs in general. Yes, that may sound bizarre: I just called Pokémon a "faster" game after complaining it moves too fast, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. Pokémon has always been great because you can drop cards into play pretty quickly and said cards will "do stuff". I love how the designers realized they could take what seemed like a "broken" issue of Trainer cards and how those compared with similar cards in other TCGs... and found a way to make it work. The idea of Items, Stadiums and Supporters is not a problem, it is some of the specific cards that are an issue, or perhaps an design philosophy they demonstrate.
So with explaining my apparent contradictions out of the way, I guess there is one core mechanic I really don't like:
Prize Cards.
This is a great example of something I thought was awesome when I started but now? I loathe it for increasing "luck" beyond what is needed for the game. Maybe it was supposed to combat the concept of TecH that has been so pivotal to the game, but then again when the Prize cards are truly random from your deck, sometimes they end up punishing a reliable full four count of a card more than the clutch copy that is a "one of". If the Prize mechanic is supposed to balance something out, I don't think it does a very good job and would much rather a revised mechanic for keeping score was used instead and if that made something too powerful... stop making that "something" and cards like it. Some very interesting ideas have emerged through cards that interact with one's Prizes but in the end, they aren't the most accurate measure of who is winning (at least until a player takes their last Prize) so in addition to the main concern I have with the Prize mechanic, all the "come from behind" cards that use them are also irritating.
Actually, go ahead and add "Come from behind" cards. Not useful cards that can allow you to come back from behind, but the various cards designed to punish a player for doing well and/or reward the other player for doing poorly. I can't tell if it is better or worse that they tend to be so easy to "fool" and thus use when you are most definitely ahead.
When you have the option of going on Virbank or another market similar to it and buy a regular art for 25-30 but lets spend 60$ on it because that seems smart to waste money and you only need 1-2 so that's 60 for 2 or 25-30 for 1. So sure dig through your deck and again thank you for the win.
Otaku, the thought of doing prizes in a reversed way is an option if you don't like the trade off.
Otaku, the thought of doing prizes in a reversed way is an option if you don't like the trade off.
I think all forms of item lock or lock abilities and effects period need to go if they're going to be easy to achieve. I think energy discard effects should he harder to pull off and effects that can put a game in a coin flip should not be around. No one likes losing to fainting spell like effects. Ability like garbotoxin should also go away. I also agree that the "setup" ability should go away but IMO, its the reason people are playing other supporter cards.