Discussion What sets are we thinking will get rotated after the season?

Personally, something like generations-on would make sense. while the break era is breakthrough-evolutions, you can divide that further into breakthrough/breakpoint and fates collide-evolutions. Generations was just a gimmick set to TPCI has no reason to really pay any attention to it. Using it as a baseline for what to keep in standard allows us to lose tons of meta cards (i wont mention anything PRC-AOR since thats been established so: darkrai EX, max elixir, mega mewtwo EX, super rod, puzzle of time, manaphy EX, and more). This leaves us with one major XY archetype; volcanion EX, and were stuck with sycamore and N, but most other supporters are gone. While this doesnt allieviate all the issues with XY and the rotation, it leaves just enough XY cards in standard so that we have enough sets to rotate next year while getting rid of some pesky decks that would stick around if breakthrough and breakpoint stuck around. Imagine another year with darkrai EX; it would dominate, likely utilizing Darkrai GX to accelerate even faster. While volcanion would still be around, it would be significantly slower without all of the support from pre-breakpoint, and would slowly fade away.

While no one has addressed this here, expanded could rotate as well. IMO itll either be BW-dragons exalted being rotated, or all of black and white at once. While i dont think that fixes the issues with expanded at all because that leaves some of the biggest problems in the format (trevenant and toad) it could be a start.

Either way, if TPCI chooses to rotate less sets in standard (PRC-AOR for example) and doesnt rotate expanded at all, I think a heavier banlist should come into play to compensate. For example, banning volcanion all together in standard (thats a stretch but hey) N, or sycamore, or any other card they feel fit. Expanded definetly needs a banlist to at least try and make it healthier (laserbank, trev, toads, archeops, etc) but well just have to see.
 
Since we lose one block per rotation (BW-NVI, NXD-DRX, BCR-LTR, XY-PHF), I think that Primal Clash, Roaring Skies and Ancient Origins will be the sets that rotate at the start of September.
 
Everything pre-BREAK will definitely be gone. BREAKthrough-on or Fates Collide-on is the most likely in my opinion. SUM-on would be silly, thats only three sets. I saw someone saying Generations-on, that seems possible. Either way, losing ROS and AOR will have a HUGE impact on the format. No Shaymin, no Forest of Giant Plants, no Vileplume (Cowabunga!), no Mega Ray, no Skyfield, no Mega Turbo, etcetera, etcetera. AOR rotating means Deciduplume will be relegated to Expanded. Gyarados and Vespiquen will both rotate. Mega Mewtwo will be clunky without Hoopa or Mega Turbo, so that will be over. Some decks left standing will be Solgaleo/Lurantis,Volcanion (if BREAKthrough-on), and Tauros/Hammers. Shaymin rotating will affect every deck though, that will be interesting. My bet is BREAKthrough-on.
 
GekkisaiDaiNi said:
Everything pre-BREAK will definitely be gone. BREAKthrough-on or Fates Collide-on is the most likely in my opinion. SUM-on would be silly, thats only three sets. I saw someone saying Generations-on, that seems possible. Either way, losing ROS and AOR will have a HUGE impact on the format. No Shaymin, no Forest of Giant Plants, no Vileplume (Cowabunga!), no Mega Ray, no Skyfield, no Mega Turbo, etcetera, etcetera. AOR rotating means Deciduplume will be relegated to Expanded. Gyarados and Vespiquen will both rotate. Mega Mewtwo will be clunky without Hoopa or Mega Turbo, so that will be over. Some decks left standing will be Solgaleo/Lurantis,Volcanion (if BREAKthrough-on), and Tauros/Hammers. Shaymin rotating will affect every deck though, that will be interesting. My bet is BREAKthrough-on.
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Waterbox should be pretty good as well, as long as Manaphy stays in format.
 
I am hoping for break through and on.

Like others have said Sun and Moon only would be awful.
 
I think breakthrough + for 2017-2018, but who knows.

However SUM+ for 2018-2019 is a no brainer
 
Sun and Moon on for next year still cuts out like six sets when that would happen so why not just do Evolutions on and cut out the middleman? This way we don't have another year or two of XY in Standard.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
Sun and Moon on for next year still cuts out like six sets when that would happen so why not just do Evolutions on and cut out the middleman? This way we don't have another year or two of XY in Standard.
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Not including Double Crisis and Generations, there are eight expansions prior to Sun & Moon in Standard play:
  1. Primal Clash
  2. Roaring Skies
  3. Ancient Origins
  4. BREAKthrough
  5. BREAKpoint
  6. Fates Collide
  7. Steam Siege
  8. Evolutions
Why do I not count those two? Double Crisis is a mini-set, which was geared towards collectors and, as such, which we were lucky to even see at all outside of Japan. Generally speaking, such things are an afterthought for TPCi, with regards to set rotation is nothing else. Generations may be a full set, but it was released in an unusual manner specifically because it was targeting collectors or nostalgic casual fans. Its release was not part of our usual four-sets-per-year cycle. Do to their unusual nature as "bonus" releases, even if we do count them it only makes sense for them to be part of larger cuts because they were part of larger (total yearly) releases. ;)
 
Otaku said:
Not including Double Crisis and Generations, there are eight expansions prior to Sun & Moon in Standard play:
  1. Primal Clash
  2. Roaring Skies
  3. Ancient Origins
  4. BREAKthrough
  5. BREAKpoint
  6. Fates Collide
  7. Steam Siege
  8. Evolutions
Why do I not count those two? Double Crisis is a mini-set, which was geared towards collectors and, as such, which we were lucky to even see at all outside of Japan. Generally speaking, such things are an afterthought for TPCi, with regards to set rotation is nothing else. Generations may be a full set, but it was released in an unusual manner specifically because it was targeting collectors or nostalgic casual fans. Its release was not part of our usual four-sets-per-year cycle. Do to their unusual nature as "bonus" releases, even if we do count them it only makes sense for them to be part of larger cuts because they were part of larger (total yearly) releases. ;)
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I'm not sure where Double Crisis falls in the set chain but I assumed it was rotating along with Primal to Ancient. The reason I'm counting it as a set (even if it's a .5 set) is because there are cards there that see play, same as Jolteon-EX in Generations as well as a few other cards. With that, a Sun and Moon rotation next year would cut six sets from standard so if they are going to cut more sets than normal, then why not rotate to Evolutions-On, kill off any idea of another year of XY in Standard and remove all the problem cards now and let Standard rebuild.
 
NinJamezor said:
Like Otaku said, there are 8 sets prior to SM, and two bonus sets. Even an EVO-on Rotation would be cutting out 7 sets and two bonus sets.
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That would be fine just to avoid another year of XY in standard and avoid designing SM cards to compete with it.
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
That would be fine just to avoid another year of XY in standard and avoid designing SM cards to compete with it.
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Except it doesn't avoid another year of XY in Standard: the expansion is XY: Evolutions. Sometimes I get careless and slap that "XY" prefix on something that really does lack it, but I double checked; there is a big "XY" behind the "Evolutions" name. Though the set intentionally looks like older cards, that's all superficial; mechanically it is still XY.

Keep in mind, I'm focusing on what I expect. I expect one more year of Standard play with cards from the XY-block, and it will probably only cut three to five "regular" releases (so five to seven if Double Crisis and Generations are included). If we go by what I want, that's easy (but scary):
  • Standard: Sun & Moon-on
  • Expanded: XY-On
  • Legacy: Remains the same, but becomes an official format for OP
 
crystal_pidgeot said:
That would be fine just to avoid another year of XY in standard and avoid designing SM cards to compete with it.
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I guess I am just not so sure they would be done designing around XY era concepts even if they rotated the entire set. They have already shown they are interested in following some of the practices of the era anyway and I honestly think it is only a matter of time before a rebranded "Professor", as @Otaku is fond of calling it, gets reprinted. It wouldn't be surprising if we see some additional changes that I would describe more like "improvements" similar to how Acerola and Field Blower are pretty clear improvements over AZ/Cassius or Tool Scrapper. I would also say Aqua Patch and Choice Band (Silver Bangle improvement) are pretty clear evidence they intend to keep the general power creep and blazing speed of the game going.

While we would get a fresh new set of pokemon, it is pretty clear that even that isn't going to end the power creep. Look at Lapras. With only 3 energy attachments, that pokemon can put a ton of hurt on just about anything. And with Aqua Patch, 3 attachments isn't all that hard to hit. Take a look at Tapu Koko GX or Drampa GX. Both big basics with the ability to sweep with relative ease. Look at the upcoming Darkrai GX. Another big basic that will be equipped to put a whole lot of hurt on the meta. Long story short, even cutting the sets down only provides roughly a 4-8 month reprieve before the speed catches right back up.

Honestly, I don't think the design of the two SUM sets we have so far really says much about wanting to slow things down much at all.
 
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Otaku said:
Legacy: Remains the same, but becomes an official format for OP
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YESSSS. I would love this, however, there are a few very powerful decks that are very powerful in the format. There is also no way to keep it fresh.
 
Latte1504 said:
YESSSS. I would love this, however, there are a few very powerful decks that are very powerful in the format. There is also no way to keep it fresh.
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I'm not so sure. Players are still discovering tricks to shake up Base Set/Jungle and Base Set through Fossil. Also, the physical cards may end up being a bit easier to come by than the virtual ones, at least for a bit. Yes, you can earn older packs on the PTCGO, so eventually this should change. Unless everyone sits on their unopened booster packs, since they are worth so much because of how in demand the cards are and uh oh.

Of course, that last problem is solved by making Battle Arena Decks for Legacy. ;)
 
It's probably going to be BREAKthrough onward, unless they pull something really odd. Doubt it though.


I would like to see the Legacy format become more of a thing though, I'd like to play Big Basics and VirGen and all that in real life again.
 
As long as we lose Shaymin finally, I'm fine with whatever the end result is. I'd be totally okay with Breakthrough on though, I want to actually play a Magnezone deck.
 
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