Discussion What Will Be the Main Draw Support After Rotation?

B

BULBASUAR BOIIIIII

Aspiring Trainer
Member
This is an interesting topic, I think most people will play 4 Cynthia and 3 Lillie. I think that some decks will play a 1 of Judge. Hala will definitely be even more popular (maybe even a play set) for decks who use their gx attack early. Kukui might see more play?

(This is assuming that the rotation is Sun And Moon onward (which it probably will be).

Since the cards (below) are getting rotated I think both lele gx and zoroark gx will go up in price (especially lele):

Octiilery
N
Proffesor Sycamore
Shauna
Skyla
Brigette (comment below how you think Brigette will be replaced. Maybe Nest Ball


Other key cards that are rotated: (COMENT IF I FORGOT ANY PLS)
Greninja BREAK
Super rod
Glaceon EX
Max elixir (Bye Bye buzzroc)
Parallel city
Evosoda
Float stone
Heavy ball
Evolutions mewtwo
Delphox BREAK





Cards that I hope are never reprinted again (Again pls COMMENT Below if I forgot any)
Proffesor sycamore/juniper
Ultra ball
(I just dislike discarding and feel as if nest ball is very underrated)
Night marchers (obviously)


Cards that need a reprint: (comment below if I forgot any)
Proffesor rowan (only 1 card ever)
Luxury ball (cool mechanic (same as master ball ASPEC but if u have any in your discard u can’t play it)


If you think of a topic or discussion that should be on this thread pls comment below and I might add it.

Thx for reading.
Check out my VERY bizarre Guzzlord/ hipopotas/ guzzlord gx self kill deck in Deck garage pls.
 
I have the sneaky hunch that ultra ball is gonna hang about for a while and keep getting reprints in almost every set. I hate discarding things (More so since VS seeker got rotated) but we don't really have a consistent way to go grab whatever random Mon we need whenever we need it.

As far as the new draw supporters, Lillie and Cynthia are probably going to be the standard. I'm honestly hanging onto a few Wicke and Illima just for disruption. I would consider the Judge reprint, but I'm greedy and like more than 4 cards if I can have them. Then again, they could just print something better than those two and we have better options before worlds.
 
I know most people are annoyed with N but it is very important in game strategy and allows you to turn a game around by strategically playing and putting opponents hand at one or two cards etc.

I believe Zoroark gx will jump in price as well considering it’s ability...I play two in most of my decks now (4 dra2 cards every turn).

Sophocles may see more play to thin the deck out...as well as for aquapatch, Marshasow gx, Darkrai-gx (not that it is played).
 
Sorry won’t let me edit...i hope N or some form like N or Ace Trainer gets printed...as per providing more strategy.
 
Judge is replacing N, just calling it now because if your opponents starts 1 Pokemon and then you Judge them on Turn 1 than instead of starting with 7 cards (For when you draw for turn) they start with 5 (Again after they draw for turn) witch will completely wreck there setup and you can easily play out your hand before you Judge to get setup, then get those 4 new cards.

Cynthia is going to replace Sycamore most likely but Lilly might see some more play to being able to draw until you have 8 turn 1.

Pokemon Fan Club will most likely replace Bridgette but it only lets you get 2 basics instead of 3 witch will hurt evolution decks like Gardy.

As for Pokemon Draw support, the best options will most likely be Zoroark GX (Ability: Trade discard a card from hand draw 2 cards) witch has already see A LOT of play lately and can also offer a decent attacker for a DCE. The other option would be Oranguru (Ability: Instruct Draw cards until you have 3 cards in hand) witch is not that bad, but I still think Zoroark is better.
 
Truth be told oranguru (Aka banana master) isn't just the greatest, but it has come in handy a few times. So many match ups with sylveon or other decks that use delinquent that I didn't have to worry about having a one card hand.

As far as your new draw mechanic, have you looked at the new oranguru with resource management and looker? I haven't actually tried to make that work, but that could be a new mill deck variant if someone had the time/want to fidget with it.
 
With the brigette maybe Pokemon Fan Club? I know its only two basic Pokemon instead of three, but this could be used even when you bench is full since the cards go to your hand instead of your bench.
 
2 judges per deck for hand disruption, 1 or 2 orangurus if not playing zoroarks gx , 4 cynthias in every deck, 3 lilies , 3/4 nestballs (good synergy with oranguru and lillie to reduce hand), I dont think Pokemon fan club will be worthy as your initial turn supporter if you have lillie in deck.

possible cards... the new lycanrock-gx with ability ?? , sophocles for draw 4 is cool too
 
I could see 4 Cynthia, 3 Lillie and 1-2 Judge being the go to draw supporters. Sophocles could see play in some decks that need to get certain cards in the discard. Obviously there is also Kukui and Hala.
 
Rindon said:
I know most people are annoyed with N but it is very important in game strategy and allows you to turn a game around by strategically playing and putting opponents hand at one or two cards etc.
Click to expand...

Why is that important, though? Why is it good?

"Come from behind" cards are built on the idea that there should be a way to come from behind, but such cards can't distinguish between a player who falls behind due to bad luck versus someone who falls behind due to bad choices. Controlling how much luck is in the game is important: we want some so that the game isn't too predictable, and so that you don't have to find an opponent/deck combo that is the exact equal of your own for a fair game but more than that means robbing people of a deserved win.

In the case of N, it doesn't distinguish between these two situations. For better or worse, it can't even distinguish between who is really behind and who is just ahead in Prizes; you can be behind, use it, and help your opponent is luck isn't with you. That leads to the other issue with N, and it is one that requires you have played during certain past formats to really appreciate:

N seriously undermines the skill of cultivating a good hand. So does Professor Juniper/Professor Sycamore, though that is because the reward of ripping through your hand to minimize the cost of discarding it to rip through your deck is so great.

Anyway, folks are already shifting to Cynthia. Not every player, not every deck, but enough are finding decks that like not having to discard recklessly or risk helping an opponent. Lillie is not that good; great first turn, mediocre after that. Even in decks that use their GX-attack ASAP, Hala suffers for being the opposite of Lillie; terrible on your first turn, but good after that.

So... I'll continue to max out Cynthia. Sophocles, with his controlled discard, might be worthwhile, or maybe even something like Hau will finally be decent. Odds are, though, we'll just make do with Cynthia and non-Supporter draw. Supporters remain important, just not for raw draw power. That isn't all that unusual in the game's history.
 
I don't see how preferring Cynthia over Sycamore/Juniper or even N in general is any indication of a higher skill level though and I don't see Cynthia making the Standard format any more skill based either. In most cases you'd want to use C/S/J when you have a hand size smaller than 3-2 otherwise you either have to discard useful resources or you risk drawing back into cards that you don't need at the moment/for the match-up. (Exceptions are decks that thrive on discarding stuff but those are more prevalent in Expanded anyway and that format doesn't really need Cynthia imo. Maybe one or two copies in certain decks.) And unless those 1-2 cards that you have left in your hand could be crucial for the rest of the game then it is better to Sycamore/Juniper than to Cynthia.

Sure, in Standard a higher Cynthia count is preferred over a higher Sycamore count right now, because it has become very problematic to get back key resources from your discard pile and you probably don't want to end up with Sycamore as your main draw supporter on T1-2. (And because people can also just Trade spam with Zoroarks until they get the cards they want even if they don't run Mallow.) This just turns Standard into a Cynthia shuffle-fest in a lot of cases (and let's not even mention the scrubby Garchomp-Lucario deck that capitalises on this game design flaw...) where people just keep spamming Cynthia until one of them finally gets the desired combination of cards before the other player and is able to pull ahead. If anything, it makes the game more luck based.

N doesn't differentiate between being behind because of bad decisions or because of bad luck, but it rarely robs people of a deserved win either. If you get Ned down late game to 1-2 and you still have too many useless cards in your deck that you can draw into (or if you discarded too many of your cards that could have become important later on) and/or you don't have anything in your deck that could potentially get you out of such a situation (Octillery/Oranguru usually) then your deck/playstyle probably still needs some tweaking. (And yes, I've been on the receiving end of an N-to-1 several times where I was unable to take that last prize card and lost the match which made me rethink my strategy and the construction of the given deck. Or I just scrapped the whole idea of the deck.)

Again, a higher Cynthia count is preferred over a higher N count in Standard because if you get N as your early draw supporter then you are more likely to help out your opponent with it due to the state of Standard right now. This, however, doesn't mean that Cynthia is a better card overall than N. Playing Cynthia as your main draw supporter in Standard right now isn't even a matter of preference, it is simply forced on players because of the direction TPCI decided to take the format into. And it doesn't look like that the format will get a better draw supporter anytime soon, so Cynthia is here to stay for a while... if after rotation Cynthia and Judge will remain the most efficient draw support and hand distruption (respectively) things might become more strategic but I'm not sure. In all honesty all these re-shuffle effects are starting to bore me to tears. And for Judge to become an efficient hand distrupter Zoroark needs to be pushed back, because that card does nothing against a deck that has 1-2 benched Zoroark-GXes.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top