Will Gyarados survive?
- Thread starter Pokeman
- Start date
Yeah... so as long as the rotation lasts, you can still play Omastar (great other use for Seeker, too!).
Well, lost zoning's still available, and if a Gengar deck went for the surprise attack on us and played a Prime plus a Blissey, 40 damage will get us nowhere, and therefore, you lose. Gyarados is pretty sick otherwise.
Here's some good entertainment that also helps our morale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBR2G-iI3-I
~L_X_F
Here's some good entertainment that also helps our morale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBR2G-iI3-I
~L_X_F
Somethign I would like to point out, is you're all assuming that LostGar is the only thing you will be playing. Yes, you might loose, but not everybody will be playing LostGar. Machamp, Donphan, miror Gyarados, and SP decks will all still be out there, and Gyarados will consistantly beat all of those like it normally would. The only difference I see in Gyarados now is how you play it. As opposed to Impersonating a Collector, you'll have to play it from your hand, so you can put the Magikarps into the discard pile the same turn you fish them out. After that, there should be no problem.
Scizor, that would be a bad idea to play too many reversals in LostGar. It reduces speed and consistency. Dos has no problem at all keeping mon on bench and it usually maxes out on Warps. You would be better just going for more consistency in your build. Playing 4 hunter and 2 VS Seeker means that you need 6 cards to win. LostGar has a lot of trouble staying in the game. The constant Huntering means you don't get to play supporters. Your draw will be entirely Uxie draws post-turn1. You will only ever get 2-3 lostgar in a game. If we see a standard turn 2 play, the Dos player will easily take a 9 turn game while the LostGar player will struggle taking a 6 turn game. They need some good draws, or to not Hunter for a turn. They need to continuously have Gar, Hunter, and Energy in play. Uxie draw will mean they only get about 4 cards/turn. That isn't much when you are tasked with not playing a supporter, getting a new gar out, and having an energy for that gar all at once.
Once again, you guys treat losing a Karp to LZ as the end of the world. Unless the Dos player plays some Crobats, it is not hurting anyone to play Dos + Belt. You will still 2Shot them. 90 + belt + bat+bat does 1 shot them, but most builds don't use Crobat. I would rather lose a Karp turn 1 than wait an extra turn to set up. Once again, this is VERY situational, but it is how it should work. If I already have a collector in my hand, I would rather lose a Karp to LZ and get the Sableye collector than take 2 turns to setup. Just my personal preference.
Once again, you guys treat losing a Karp to LZ as the end of the world. Unless the Dos player plays some Crobats, it is not hurting anyone to play Dos + Belt. You will still 2Shot them. 90 + belt + bat+bat does 1 shot them, but most builds don't use Crobat. I would rather lose a Karp turn 1 than wait an extra turn to set up. Once again, this is VERY situational, but it is how it should work. If I already have a collector in my hand, I would rather lose a Karp to LZ and get the Sableye collector than take 2 turns to setup. Just my personal preference.
If Gyarados doesn't survive next set due to Lost World then that's one deck my Nidoking/Nidoqueen deck has less to worry about. Of course there's still Kingdra, Magnezone/Feraligatr, and Wailord/Feraligatr... >_>
@Zero, my point with the Reversal was a bit... off, and for some reason I didn't mention Omastar. Play Reversal, Omastar, Gyarados gets sent back to opponent's hand, and then either send the Gyara to the Lost Zone or the Magikarp (whichever seems more advantageous). Omastar gives this deck a boost. All you need to do is do that against 2 Gyaras, and then the Gyara player's going for the 3-shot instead.
Your point on the Seekers is true, but with Omastar, it's not absolutely necessary to use it every turn (plus, the odds aren't that great that your opponent has no 'mon in his hand to begin with, but that's easily checkable with Looker's). Twins helps a whole lot, too, when you're not using Seeker/Lookers, etc., since LostGar doesn't need prizes.
Your point on the Seekers is true, but with Omastar, it's not absolutely necessary to use it every turn (plus, the odds aren't that great that your opponent has no 'mon in his hand to begin with, but that's easily checkable with Looker's). Twins helps a whole lot, too, when you're not using Seeker/Lookers, etc., since LostGar doesn't need prizes.
the problem with omastar as a tech is, you're already slowing down the deck massively by running things like reversal, then add the fact that the basic form of omastar isn't even searchable and is effectively just another stage 2 tech and the gyarados player has probably already knocked out two of your gengars by this time.
And most of the time, gengar won't be able to snipe the magikarp on the bench even with the reversal omastar combo because the belt would put magikarp 10hp from knockout, and unless you run crobat, yet another tech, there's no oneshotting the magikarp.
Also reversal was always too flippy for my liking, if you're getting tails, it essentially renders all that time setting up omastar wasted. Why not cyclone energy instead? helps power up gengars second attack and essentially does what reversal is meant to and gets gyara on the bench
And most of the time, gengar won't be able to snipe the magikarp on the bench even with the reversal omastar combo because the belt would put magikarp 10hp from knockout, and unless you run crobat, yet another tech, there's no oneshotting the magikarp.
Also reversal was always too flippy for my liking, if you're getting tails, it essentially renders all that time setting up omastar wasted. Why not cyclone energy instead? helps power up gengars second attack and essentially does what reversal is meant to and gets gyara on the bench
The E-Belt does make a difference, but keep in mind you can repeat this process.
It does slow it down, but once you get set up against an evolution deck, Omastar helps oh-so-much.
It does slow it down, but once you get set up against an evolution deck, Omastar helps oh-so-much.
Ok, here's the thing. Lost Zone is from that Links set, right? The set that only has 40 cards, and 20 of them have already been printed. They aren't going to make a 20 card set. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the rest of the scans haven't been revealed yet, right? So they're going to put another 80 or so cards in the english set when it comes out. So, what they're going to do is make a Trainer/Supporter card like "Bob's Retrieval" or "Return of the Lost" or something like that. And it's text will be something like this: "Return 1 Pokemon from the Lost Zone to its owners hand."
And then everyone will tech 1 or 2 of them into their deck. Problem solved. Gyarados doesn't die.
And then everyone will tech 1 or 2 of them into their deck. Problem solved. Gyarados doesn't die.
...That completely and utterly destoys the point of the Lost Zone, which is that you can't get the cards back no matter what. Cards like that would make it just a discard pile with a different name.
Exactly! And so once again Nintendo has shown us that they can take a perfectly cool concept and turn it into something annoying. I'm not saying I want it to happen, I'm saying that's what will happen. It's what they did with SP. They should have left it alone after Platinum. They had like... 30 SP cards and you could make some decent decks around them. Now, they have 200 SP's and half the decks around use them.
Nabby, that is not going to happen. That would destroy the gimmick of "unreturnable cards". PUSA or w/e gives us English sets will not give you your dream card. We're going to see a bunch of reprints/English only cards for the next set. Besides, a hard counter usable in any deck would just be stupid. Scizor, a Dos deck usually plays 3 Dos and 4 warp points. Your reversal idea cannot outlast the Dos. You would be better trying something more consistent.
Your example is nothing like SP. SP needed support post Platinum. It would barely be a deck is it didn't see SV and RR. Dialga is played a bit, but look at the most played SPs. Lux and Chomp were not Platinum. They also never broke their SP gimmick. SPs are always basic pokemon with an owner. Getting rid of the "LZ = GONE" gimmick would not be done. They also never broke their past Delta, Crystal, Dark, Light, etc gimmicks. Keep dreaming dude ;D
Your example is nothing like SP. SP needed support post Platinum. It would barely be a deck is it didn't see SV and RR. Dialga is played a bit, but look at the most played SPs. Lux and Chomp were not Platinum. They also never broke their SP gimmick. SPs are always basic pokemon with an owner. Getting rid of the "LZ = GONE" gimmick would not be done. They also never broke their past Delta, Crystal, Dark, Light, etc gimmicks. Keep dreaming dude ;D
Outlast it? My idea would just be to get all 3 Gyaras into the Lost Zone with a Switch (actually, Warp Point would work, too), Omastar, and then Hurl Into Darkness. Repeat twice, and you've got a dead Gyara deck. They're only 2HKOing you, so it takes them about 6 turns to get all of the Gengars KO'd (and even then, LostGar will play some recovery). LostGar can use the Warp Point/Omastar tactic at least 3 times by then, and that's assuming Gyara gets a new 'Dos out every turn after you put one into the Lost Zone.
There's big difference Scizor. Gengar player needs warp point and 3 specific cards to do this. It needs the basic fossil which is unsearchable (except via Twins). You will barely get Star in a game. Yes... you can hunter for it... but that would not let you Uxie Draw which means that you will probably lose your ability to play a 3rd Gar. You ALSO need a Warp point (again... unsearchable). Once again, play test it out. Prove me wrong. If you REALLY want to show me up (you should by now), record a set of videos of it. Please show me up... for great justice.
Twins is the answer. 2 cards, whatever you want or need, every turn you use it. You can go ahead and sack your Spiritomb, because that just helps you use Twins. If you're running enough, you'll have no problem getting at least 2, often 3 pokémon cards into your opponent's hand every time you use Omastar and Seeker. Get enough psychic energy on Gengar and you're set. In most games vs. Gyara, I don't think LostGar will even need to play a 3rd 'Gar. They should be able to win in 4 turns after getting the first Gengar out or less.
Playing Twins means that you won't get the Hunter off in a turn. Once you get into the attacking phase of the game, you cannot afford to do that. Why don't you test out your claims before you go on about them? I have tested it out and found that the matchup is pretty even. You would want to build a reasonable Lost Gar WITH all the stuff you suggest before going on about it. I DOUBT this is going to work out. I cannot find any room in my build for what you are suggesting, so go ahead and try yourself. Everything you want to do is just too much for not enough return. It would not help against some of LostGar's harder matchups anyways. LostGar VS Dos is a pretty balanced matchup (maybe a 45-55 somewhere). LostGar would be better doing heavy teching against decks it has some problems with. Everything you want to do is overkill and will make the deck... bad... as far as I can see.
