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X-taria (Haxorus/Altaria)

olimar1023 said:
And yet we will still have more EXs and new dragons that hit for lots of damage t2-t3 for very little energy.
BW on will be a very fast paced format.

edit:
I like the list, but would add a 3rd Ultra Ball to get your pokemon out faster. And maybe some more basic energy.

My point being that while we have fast attackers, getting those attackers out and set up will not always be fast. This format will slow to a more enjoyable pace than our past format. It may not be extremely SLOW, but definitely not faster than our last one...
 
Ursus said:
LOL, the new format will be faster? Absolutely not, we have no Smeargle, no Junk Arm, much less draw, and less consistent draw. The new format of BW-on slows the game to a much better pace.

The disappearance of those cards is what makes it faster. Less Junk Arm etc. means you have more space to fit in 4 Level Ball, 4 Ultra Ball, 4 Candy, 4 Skyla, 4-4 Eels etc etc. Old format Eels went like this, 3 Dual Ball (less consistent than Ultra ball) 2 Level Ball, 4-3 Eels and no Skyla.

Darkrai is the only deck that gets slower and is GREATLY affected by the loss of those cards.
 
Heres the list so far...

2 Emolga (Dragon Blade/Blast)
3-3 Altaria
4-2-4 Haxorus (Dragon Selection)

2 Super rod
4 Catcher
3 Ultraball
3 Rare Candy
1 Sky Arrow Bridge
2 EXP Share
3 Pokemon Comunication
2 Tool Scrapper
2 N
3 Juniper
2 Cheren

4 fighting
2 metal
3 Double Colorless
4 Blend Energy {W}{L}{F}{M}

18 Pokemon
26 trainer/supporters
13 energies
 
Milky said:
The disappearance of those cards is what makes it faster. Less Junk Arm etc. means you have more space to fit in 4 Level Ball, 4 Ultra Ball, 4 Candy, 4 Skyla, 4-4 Eels etc etc. Old format Eels went like this, 3 Dual Ball (less consistent than Ultra ball) 2 Level Ball, 4-3 Eels and no Skyla.

Darkrai is the only deck that gets slower and is GREATLY affected by the loss of those cards.

So let's add Skyla and use our Supporter for the turn to search out a lone level ball rather than using that Juniper. That's faster? Without Junk Arm you can only use one level ball per level ball card rather than using one and throwing it in the discard then PONTing and getting a Junk Arm to use it again. You have used 2 and still have 3 in the deck. Aside from that, Smeargle is gone so we're back down to only using one supporter per turn. With most top decks in the current HGSS metagame using Smeargle, explain to me how this format will be faster. It won't.
 
Ursus said:
So let's add Skyla and use our Supporter for the turn to search out a lone level ball rather than using that Juniper. That's faster? Without Junk Arm you can only use one level ball per level ball card rather than using one and throwing it in the discard then PONTing and getting a Junk Arm to use it again. You have used 2 and still have 3 in the deck. Aside from that, Smeargle is gone so we're back down to only using one supporter per turn. With most top decks in the current HGSS metagame using Smeargle, explain to me how this format will be faster. It won't.

^This. By adding more cards to current trainer lines to make up for a lack of something so universal as Junk Arm is NOT speeding up the deck, it is making it more consistant. Junk Arm was such a staple card because it essentially made it possible to have more than 4 of a single trainer in your deck. Cards like switch, plus power, pokemon catcher... people would be very eager to throw one into the discard somehow, knowing that not only do they have their additional copies of the card in the deck, they also have 4 Junk Arms to make them accessible whenever.

For the sake of staying on topic, my input on this deck.

I personally don't see the point of using Haxorus instead of Garchomp, there isn't anything that's special about it by comparison to Garchomp but that choice is up to you and I'll try to provide suggestions and thoughts where necessary.

I definitely feel like you need more draw for the deck, the supporter count is very thin. Not to mention you do not have Random Receiver in the deck which, because you don't run other supporters except for draw, provides you with a definite draw.

I'm not too sure how I feel about Cheren in this deck, just because you do run a lot of Ultra Balls to search for Haxorus, Bianca might be a bit better in here over Cheren because it has more potential to bring in more cards. It can also help recover from opponent Ns. On that note, I believe your N count should be pumped to 4. There isn't any other shuffle draw in the format. There will be those times where your hand is too good to Juniper away, Bianca won't get you cards but you need something new. N will preserve your resources, potentially disrupt your opponent and give you those fresh cards you need.

I don't find Double Colourless Energy necessary in here just because I feel that it's first attack isn't amazing. Granted, Altaria does boost the damage and the DCE drop can get Haxorus powered in a pinch. I'm not quite sure how the deck works, but if its like Garchomp/Altaria, you might want to reconsider your energy line entirely. DCEs will be a must, Metal Blends will be a must, and I would only run 1 type of basic Energy and perhaps a back up attacker to support that energy type. Since the Blend can utilize Fighting Energy, perhaps Terrakion would be a sound choice for the deck? He's not a dragon, no, he doesn't benefit from Altaria but don't regard him as unfit for the deck as the forecasted meta will still be very fighting weak. He could be a great asset to the deck, especially with Junk Arms gone. If they feel that Terrakion is a big threat to them, they will use Pokemon Catcher to KO it, which means they are not using Pokemon Catcher on your Haxorus. It's a good way to pressure your opponent, but of course you have to be able to understand what your opponent's deck aims to do.
 
Pokemon:
3 Terrakion
2 Terrakion EX
4-1-3 Haxorus
=13

Trainers:
4 Random Receiver
4 Pokemon Catcher
3 Heavy Ball
4 Rare Candy
4 Switch
3 Ultra Ball
2 Eviolite
1 Super Rod

4 Professor Juniper
4 N
=33

Energy:
9 Fighting Energy
5 Metal Energy
=14

I think Haxorus will work better in a Fighting deck, without Altaria. Haxorus mows down Tornadus and Tornadus EX, while also providing OHKOs against all the dragon Pokemon in the meta, and I don't think crystal wall Kyuurem will be too much of a threat in the meta. Terrakion EX is this deck's heart and soul, providing energy acceleration for Terrakion. It's basically Quad Bulls with energy acceleration and a dragon/Tornadus EX counter, minus the need for revives and exp. share.
 
Milky said:
Pokemon:
3 Terrakion
2 Terrakion EX
4-1-3 Haxorus
=13

Trainers:
4 Random Receiver
4 Pokemon Catcher
3 Heavy Ball
4 Rare Candy
4 Switch
3 Ultra Ball
2 Eviolite
1 Super Rod

4 Professor Juniper
4 N
=33

Energy:
9 Fighting Energy
5 Metal Energy
=14

I think Haxorus will work better in a Fighting deck, without Altaria. Haxorus mows down Tornadus and Tornadus EX, while also providing OHKOs against all the dragon Pokemon in the meta, and I don't think crystal wall Kyuurem will be too much of a threat in the meta. Terrakion EX is this deck's heart and soul, providing energy acceleration for Terrakion. It's basically Quad Bulls with energy acceleration and a dragon/Tornadus EX counter, minus the need for revives and exp. share.

Rather than using a stage 2 to counter Tornadus, just use Bouffalant if we're using the cards from DRX.
 
For Haxorus to OHKO things without Altarias, you'd have to spend 4 energies to do so. Energy Acceleration or not, Haxorus in a deck like that is a complete waste of space and completely validates the idea of it being inferior to Garchomp. If you wanted to build a deck that was fighting based and used a dragon counter, I would've suggested Normal Rayquaza before any Stage 2. But this is all speculation, under the assumption that we get all the cards mentioned in this deck.
 
Boufallant is a terrible card in a Terrakion deck. You rely too much on getting your active KOed, which is where most Terrakion techs and even in the main deck itself is lacking, Land Crush is a lot better than Retaliate because it doesn't require your active to die, any smart person will deal 110 w/ Dark Claw to the active, catcher the Terrakion/Boufallant which now has 30 on it and OHKO that, taking two prizes in the process.

Jumbo, this thread is about ways to include Haxorus into any deck, rogue or not. He asked for suggestions on how to kee Haxorus in the deck and improve upon it, and I suggested it would be better in a fighting deck, while it may be still inferior to another fighting deck variant, it is still a lot better than HaxTaria.

Haxorus > Rayquaza.
 
Milky said:
Boufallant is a terrible card in a Terrakion deck. You rely too much on getting your active KOed, which is where most Terrakion techs and even in the main deck itself is lacking, Land Crush is a lot better than Retaliate because it doesn't require your active to die, any smart person will deal 110 w/ Dark Claw to the active, catcher the Terrakion/Boufallant which now has 30 on it and OHKO that, taking two prizes in the process.

Jumbo, this thread is about ways to include Haxorus into any deck, rogue or not. He asked for suggestions on how to kee Haxorus in the deck and improve upon it, and I suggested it would be better in a fighting deck, while it may be still inferior to another fighting deck variant, it is still a lot better than HaxTaria.

Haxorus > Rayquaza.

Bouffalant blocks 20 damage. He will not have 30 on him from a night spear to be double ko'd. Also, he is great in a Terrakion deck because of how well he counters Tornadus with little energy. You don't have to let your active die. The thing is, there is an inherent danger for your opponent if they decide to kill the active. There is also a bonus in it for you in that you can hit for 90 on the following turn if you're prepared. It's not like you send up things to get killed just so you can attack for 90 for 2...

I'm not trying to call you out, and I definitely don't have much credibility in the competitive community, but I don't understand where your arrogance comes from. All you have to do is discuss, there's no need to talk down to people who suggest certain cards, especially since you yourself want to build something that most of the competitve community doesn't see working - Rayquaza EX. Offer help in a pleasant way, no need to be condescending.
 
Ursus said:
Bouffalant blocks 20 damage. He will not have 30 on him from a night spear to be double ko'd. Also, he is great in a Terrakion deck because of how well he counters Tornadus with little energy. You don't have to let your active die. The thing is, there is an inherent danger for your opponent if they decide to kill the active. There is also a bonus in it for you in that you can hit for 90 on the following turn if you're prepared. It's not like you send up things to get killed just so you can attack for 90 for 2...

I'm not trying to call you out, and I definitely don't have much credibility in the competitive community, but I don't understand where your arrogance comes from. All you have to do is discuss, there's no need to talk down to people who suggest certain cards, especially since you yourself want to build something that most of the competitve community doesn't see working - Rayquaza EX. Offer help in a pleasant way, no need to be condescending.

My mistake, I thought you were referring to Black/White Bouffalant. I hadn't noticed that card before. That's better than Haxorus, point defeated.

I'm aware that my posts may come across as arrogant, but there is a need to be condescending -- the community doesn't respond the same way you and a select few others do. A lot of people bash my (sometimes stupid, I'll admit) arguments, and that's fine, but they just ask me a question instead of providing substantive arguments. I agree that attitude shouldn't be conditional, but a lot of the "community" really frustrates me at times. At this point, all we can do is discuss, because nobody can foresee which cards won't work and which cards will, we can only speculate. In comparison to a lot of other people, you have a lot of credibility, maybe not as a part of the community but as an individual you really shine in terms of reasonable discussion.

Thanks for the clarification on Boufallant. I realize now there is a better counter to Tornadus EX for fighting decks.
 
Well, if you wanted more competitive and serious opinions on decks, perhaps there are other forums where you can have said discussions without the need to be condescending. I've tried that kind of demeanor before and its gotten me a lot of warnings because it.
 
The terrakion terrakion EX haxorus won't work. Terrakion EX DOES NOT fit with normal terrakion. Haxorus will take at least 4 turns to set up as you have no DCE. It is NOT easy to accelerate with terrakion EX as you will need at least 3 turns. You don't need metal energy if you were to do that just blend. The first attack of haxorus can OHKO bouffalant. Terrakion is actually good with bouffalant and terrakion EX too.
 
Sinnoh_Champion_Ernesto said:
The terrakion terrakion EX haxorus won't work. Terrakion EX DOES NOT fit with normal terrakion. Haxorus will take at least 4 turns to set up as you have no DCE. It is NOT easy to accelerate with terrakion EX as you will need at least 3 turns. You don't need metal energy if you were to do that just blend. The first attack of haxorus can OHKO bouffalant. Terrakion is actually good with bouffalant and terrakion EX too.

I'll admit my post is defeated when a better counter like Boufallant is introduced Into the conversation. But when a clearly uninformed post is made like this is made...

Haxorus is not meant to be your main attacker. He was originally introduced into the list as I was unaware Boufallant existed. He can be on the field Turn 2 being powered up on the bench while you attack with Terrakion EX. When you get enough energy to start energy acceleration, it's two turns to get 4 basic energy of any type (gotta love Terrakion EX). I instantly become weary of your advice when you keep suggesting special energy such as blend energy. You can't even energy accelerate special energy, it's not just my concerns for Hammers and Garchomp without Altaria.

tl;dr, Counting how many turns it takes to set up Terrakion EX's second attack in order to use the energy acceleration is not the way to go. Once energy accel is up, it akes a single turn to use Hax's first attack.
 
Sinnoh_Champion_Ernesto said:
The terrakion terrakion EX haxorus won't work. Terrakion EX DOES NOT fit with normal terrakion. Haxorus will take at least 4 turns to set up as you have no DCE. It is NOT easy to accelerate with terrakion EX as you will need at least 3 turns. You don't need metal energy if you were to do that just blend. The first attack of haxorus can OHKO bouffalant. Terrakion is actually good with bouffalant and terrakion EX too.

I just want to hear why you think they don't work together.
 
Terrakion EX attacks for 3 energies for acceleration. Normal terrakion uses 2 energies to retaliate when one of your pokemon faints. Use the EXP. Share to recycle the energy and you just need to add 1 energy inmeddiatly to hit for 90. Both work with Bouffalant but just 1 of them at a time.
 
Sinnoh_Champion_Ernesto said:
Terrakion EX attacks for 3 energies for acceleration. Normal terrakion uses 2 energies to retaliate when one of your pokemon faints. Use the EXP. Share to recycle the energy and you just need to add 1 energy inmeddiatly to hit for 90. Both work with Bouffalant but just 1 of them at a time.

Tool Scrapper will destroy exp share based acceleration. They will no longer be a viable option.

Terrakion EX active with 3 energy, 2 regular Terrakion on bench. Pump Smash one energy to each, or even just one to one of them. You could also smash one to Bouffalant if you have the DCE in your hand for the following turn. Regular Terrakion hits 90 for 2 after something was ko'd. So if you start with regular Terrakion, you can do 30 turn 2. With ex, you can do 50 turn 2. Turn 3, regular Terrakion can hit for 90. Turn 3, Terrakion EX can hit for 90 with possible 2 energy acceleration. If you Pump Smash one energy to either Terrakion, you can still hit the 90 for 2 the turn following the Terrakion EX getting knocked out, as well as being prepared to retaliate once more when your now active Terrakion is KO'd.

I don't really understand what you mean?
 
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