-
When creating a thread in the Deck Garage, make sure that you post one deck per thread, you use the correct prefix, you have the set name/card number next to each card, you give a strategy for non-metagame decks, and give translations for all cards not available in English.
When posting in a thread, be sure to explain all your suggestions thoroughly. Additionally, do not ask for advice in another member's thread.
Yveltal's Shadow (Yveltal EX / Darkrai EX)
- Thread starter Dark Espeon
- Start date
Hi Br0vyle,
Thanks for the review. Sableye is most often used for Dark Patch, Dowsing Maschine and Hypnotoxic Laser. With Yveltal non-Ex the deck has a second means to attach Darkness energies to benched Pokémon which can increase the speed of the deck in combination with Dark Patch itself. Yveltal is more aggressive than Sableye but less versatile since I wanted a means to retrieve Hyponotoxic Lasers.
Hi folks,
Added Shauna to the deck to have a total of 14 draw cards. Shauna is a reliable draw card and seems to work fine in this deck to make it more stable. Still unsure on whether to include a third stadium. It would be either a third Virbank or a teched Shadow Circle. Please let me know what you think about the revised list and whether the deck would benefit from a third stadium . Thanks for all the assistance in advance.
Thanks for the review. Sableye is most often used for Dark Patch, Dowsing Maschine and Hypnotoxic Laser. With Yveltal non-Ex the deck has a second means to attach Darkness energies to benched Pokémon which can increase the speed of the deck in combination with Dark Patch itself. Yveltal is more aggressive than Sableye but less versatile since I wanted a means to retrieve Hyponotoxic Lasers.
Hi folks,
Added Shauna to the deck to have a total of 14 draw cards. Shauna is a reliable draw card and seems to work fine in this deck to make it more stable. Still unsure on whether to include a third stadium. It would be either a third Virbank or a teched Shadow Circle. Please let me know what you think about the revised list and whether the deck would benefit from a third stadium . Thanks for all the assistance in advance.
Hello! I registered just to partecipate in this discussion 
.
I used to play TCG 10-12 years ago but I'm curious about the release of the new sets, and since my friend constantly invite me to play I decided to make a come back in my little local scene.
That said, I really like the deck you created, and I'm trying to build a similar one (like I said I need it to play against my friends, but who knows maybe I'll attend some tournament in the future).
Why do you prefer to use Dowsing Machine over Computer Search? Isn't Sableye enough to re-use discarted items?
I'm also thinking about adding a Spiritomb or 2 to counter VirizionEX-GenesectEX deck...I don't have any experience but imho it looks like a bad matchup because of the status immunity, and reducing genesect damage from 200 to 100 surely helps.
*Do you know where can it's possible to buy Yveltal EX at a decent price? I'm not finding it anywhere... :/
**Sorry for my bad english
.I used to play TCG 10-12 years ago but I'm curious about the release of the new sets, and since my friend constantly invite me to play I decided to make a come back in my little local scene.
That said, I really like the deck you created, and I'm trying to build a similar one (like I said I need it to play against my friends, but who knows maybe I'll attend some tournament in the future).
Why do you prefer to use Dowsing Machine over Computer Search? Isn't Sableye enough to re-use discarted items?
I'm also thinking about adding a Spiritomb or 2 to counter VirizionEX-GenesectEX deck...I don't have any experience but imho it looks like a bad matchup because of the status immunity, and reducing genesect damage from 200 to 100 surely helps.
*Do you know where can it's possible to buy Yveltal EX at a decent price? I'm not finding it anywhere... :/
**Sorry for my bad english
Hi asodimazze,
Welcome back and welcome to the darker side of the moon. I am a returning player myself. Computer Search can get back discarded supporters and stadium cards. Sableye is great but he cannot fish out supporters and stadium cards from the discard and I assume that we will see a more diverse sets of stadium cards with the new set.
Not so sure on Spiritomb since he disables you to use your own Ace Spec card which can be fished from the discard with Sableye and becomes rather versatile after a few turns. I guess it was the increased felxibility combined with the larger number of draw cards in my deck that made be decide to use Dowsing Maschine over Computer search.
The deck is rather fast from initial test runs. This is an advantage over VirGen decks that need a little more time to maintain board control. Tool Scrapper is in the deck to deal with G-Booster and other tools that could slow the deck down. The VirGen match is indeed a little difficult but I would not call it a bad matchup unless you are able to out-race them. If you are scared of VirGen and other Pokémon ability based decks consider Black Toxin. Black Toxin is a Garbodor version of this deck. Garbodor's Pokémon Ability shuts down all other Pokémon abilities. In consequence VirGen will not longer have status immunity and he also covers other nasty Pokémon Abilities.
Got my two Yveltal Ex from ebay and lost an auction for a third one but two should be sufficient. If you want English cards you could also wait a month since Yveltal and Yveltal Ex will be available as English versions in Tins. This means you can get them for sure at a pre-defined price in addition to English boosters.
On a side note: I noticed that the deck needs to be real fast to win and fuel two attackers at the same time to maintain board preasure. For this reason you want to discard one or two Darkness energies on your first turn to get the engine started.
Hi folks,
Was uanble to obtain a third Yveltal Ex. Tested the deck with two Yveltal Ex and it worked rather fine. After some test runs one Colress was cut for a third stadium. Decided on Virbank but would also consider Shadow Circle as a tech. Not entire sure on the third stadium card. The third Virbank made the deck a little more consistent but Shadow Circle can reduce the Thundurus weakness. Please let me know what you think about the revised list. Thanks for the assiatance in advance.
Welcome back and welcome to the darker side of the moon. I am a returning player myself. Computer Search can get back discarded supporters and stadium cards. Sableye is great but he cannot fish out supporters and stadium cards from the discard and I assume that we will see a more diverse sets of stadium cards with the new set.
Not so sure on Spiritomb since he disables you to use your own Ace Spec card which can be fished from the discard with Sableye and becomes rather versatile after a few turns. I guess it was the increased felxibility combined with the larger number of draw cards in my deck that made be decide to use Dowsing Maschine over Computer search.
The deck is rather fast from initial test runs. This is an advantage over VirGen decks that need a little more time to maintain board control. Tool Scrapper is in the deck to deal with G-Booster and other tools that could slow the deck down. The VirGen match is indeed a little difficult but I would not call it a bad matchup unless you are able to out-race them. If you are scared of VirGen and other Pokémon ability based decks consider Black Toxin. Black Toxin is a Garbodor version of this deck. Garbodor's Pokémon Ability shuts down all other Pokémon abilities. In consequence VirGen will not longer have status immunity and he also covers other nasty Pokémon Abilities.
Got my two Yveltal Ex from ebay and lost an auction for a third one but two should be sufficient. If you want English cards you could also wait a month since Yveltal and Yveltal Ex will be available as English versions in Tins. This means you can get them for sure at a pre-defined price in addition to English boosters.
On a side note: I noticed that the deck needs to be real fast to win and fuel two attackers at the same time to maintain board preasure. For this reason you want to discard one or two Darkness energies on your first turn to get the engine started.
Hi folks,
Was uanble to obtain a third Yveltal Ex. Tested the deck with two Yveltal Ex and it worked rather fine. After some test runs one Colress was cut for a third stadium. Decided on Virbank but would also consider Shadow Circle as a tech. Not entire sure on the third stadium card. The third Virbank made the deck a little more consistent but Shadow Circle can reduce the Thundurus weakness. Please let me know what you think about the revised list. Thanks for the assiatance in advance.
Thanks for the answer @Dark Espeon,
I bought my 3 Yveltal EX at a decent price, but can't test the deck since all the X Y cards will be shipped after their release in english :/.
I was thinking about adding a few pokemon catcher, since they can be used over and over again thanks to Sableye, but the space is really tight and any modification might slow the deck so I'll decide after trying it against my opponents.
Your Black Toxin deck looks really good too, Garbodor is amazing...I'll try to give it a test in the future.
I bought my 3 Yveltal EX at a decent price, but can't test the deck since all the X Y cards will be shipped after their release in english :/.
I was thinking about adding a few pokemon catcher, since they can be used over and over again thanks to Sableye, but the space is really tight and any modification might slow the deck so I'll decide after trying it against my opponents.
Your Black Toxin deck looks really good too, Garbodor is amazing...I'll try to give it a test in the future.
Regarding Yveltal and Yveltal EX's weakness to Thundurus, the new sets have Dark Circle, a stadium card that allows Dark Type Pokemon to have no weakness meaning that big, powerful contenders such as Landorus EX, Terrakion with Retaliate, and Thundurus EX don't do quite as much damage to extremely useful Dark Types such as Darkrai EX, Sableye DEX and Yveltal Ex and non EX. It's just a suggestion. I don't know if you'd have space considering you already have one Stadium Card anyway. It's an option to consider, though. Let me know if this helps. I hope that it does.
Hi asodimazze,
Thanks for your review. Considered Catcher too. It sure would help with Mr. Mime problems. However, I tend to dislike coinflip cards and did not find space for it. But it surely is something I will also test out as soon as I received all cards for this deck.
Hi LoneWolf,
Thanks for the suggestion. Considered to run one Shadow Circle over the third Virbank but was not sure whether this would improve the deck. With a larger pool of decent stadium cards you cannot reliably rely on your opponent's Virbank stadiums anymore. Will need to test that out and see how it does. However, at the moment I am a little pressed for time. If you get around to give it a try please let me know how it does. Thanks for the assistance in advance.
Thanks for your review. Considered Catcher too. It sure would help with Mr. Mime problems. However, I tend to dislike coinflip cards and did not find space for it. But it surely is something I will also test out as soon as I received all cards for this deck.
Hi LoneWolf,
Thanks for the suggestion. Considered to run one Shadow Circle over the third Virbank but was not sure whether this would improve the deck. With a larger pool of decent stadium cards you cannot reliably rely on your opponent's Virbank stadiums anymore. Will need to test that out and see how it does. However, at the moment I am a little pressed for time. If you get around to give it a try please let me know how it does. Thanks for the assistance in advance.
Hello DarkEspeon, from my little testing I'm thinking about these changes:
- 2 Colress
- 1 Energy Switch
+ 1 Ghetsis
+ 2 Double Colorless Change
I am not finding Colress so usefull unfortunately, and in some situations a Ghetsis might change the game totally.
Also, I am not sure about using only 2 Energy Switch, but I am curious about running 2 DCE with Yvelta...this could really boost his damage over the top, knocking out EXs in one hit would be very very easy.
What do you think?
Also, how is this deck running for you? Do you have problems in any MU?
* I am still trying to find space for a few catchers, but the deck it's so tight that I'll probably never use them.
- 2 Colress
- 1 Energy Switch
+ 1 Ghetsis
+ 2 Double Colorless Change
I am not finding Colress so usefull unfortunately, and in some situations a Ghetsis might change the game totally.
Also, I am not sure about using only 2 Energy Switch, but I am curious about running 2 DCE with Yvelta...this could really boost his damage over the top, knocking out EXs in one hit would be very very easy.
What do you think?
Also, how is this deck running for you? Do you have problems in any MU?
* I am still trying to find space for a few catchers, but the deck it's so tight that I'll probably never use them.
Hi asodimazze,
Still waiting for the two Yveltal non-Ex to arrive but the proxied version works fine.One Tool Scrapper and one Darkness could be removed for it but not sure if it works out. did not test this modification thus far but at least considered it.
Colress is indeed situational. It can either be a dead card or real nice. Nevertheless a version with another N and another Shauna did not work out well for me. either needed to draw more cards or a certain card. Another option would be to run Skyla over Colress but not entire sure on it. Random Receiver would also be an option. What were your experiences with the Supporter selection?
Tested a little with a Proxied deck versus several other decks but had no more than three matches versus each of them and in some matches Black Toxin was used.
VirGen can be an issue since it is ast and blocks out the etxra damage from status conditions. This makes it harder to ohko them. The best tactic is to see when VirGen runs out of resources on the board but this can be hard with an assistance Leafeon line that is common in VirGen decks over here. The Pure Grass version can also afford to Red Signal. This means that Spiritomb is not a good counter. Besides I like to abuse Dowsing Maschine. VirGen is not an automatic loose but sure one of the harder matches. It comes down to which deck is able to maintain preasure over the match. Hunt Genesect fast when there are three energies attached to them. Once G-Booster has been used the attacker is left with one energy and thus Yveltal cannot ohko him in return. It is not the ohko but the potential loose of board pressure that can hurt here. Nevertheless the deck is not an automatic loose and it comes down to which deck obtains board control faster and can maintain it longer.
The same issue holds for Blastoise and Rayboar. Their main attacker is also left with little energies which disables Yveltal to ohko them back. A tech Frozen City works well here. In fact I run either one Shadow Circle or one Frozen City over the third Virbank at the moment. The choice is based on the current local metagame. More Blastoise and Rayboar means Frozen City and more Plasma means a tech Shadow Circle.
Fairies were doable from recent test runs. The deck can be fast but it has a weakness that works in favor of this deck. Their main attacker hoards energies akin to Plasma decks. This enables Yveltal to ohko them back from behind. Plasma tends to be similar.
The fun part is that all of the ones mentioned above have a conceptual hard counter in Black Toxin. VirGen is much less difficult with Lasers and the other three tend to need their abilities to win.
Trainer lock decks were not an issue at all since the three versions used thus far can be handled with Yveltal. The decks are either weak to darkness or need three energies on their attacker. This means that either Yveltal Ex or Darkrai Ex can knock them out fast. Keldeo is also nice to ensure that the attacker are not status locked. With the catcher errata on suffices to ensure that.
Not sure which other decks will show with the new set. Considered a Greninja deck that runs Greninja and his Ex version. Did not test that deck thus far but the idea sems nice. That deck is ment to be is similar to other ohko decks in that two water shuriken and an attack can ohko Pokémon Ex. It also needs to discard a lot to do so. However the deck seems more versatile than other ohko deck. Maybe a Greninja deck can also be viable and I have no idea how Speed Darkness decks would do in that match.
What were your experiences with this deck thus far?
Still waiting for the two Yveltal non-Ex to arrive but the proxied version works fine.One Tool Scrapper and one Darkness could be removed for it but not sure if it works out. did not test this modification thus far but at least considered it.
Colress is indeed situational. It can either be a dead card or real nice. Nevertheless a version with another N and another Shauna did not work out well for me. either needed to draw more cards or a certain card. Another option would be to run Skyla over Colress but not entire sure on it. Random Receiver would also be an option. What were your experiences with the Supporter selection?
Tested a little with a Proxied deck versus several other decks but had no more than three matches versus each of them and in some matches Black Toxin was used.
VirGen can be an issue since it is ast and blocks out the etxra damage from status conditions. This makes it harder to ohko them. The best tactic is to see when VirGen runs out of resources on the board but this can be hard with an assistance Leafeon line that is common in VirGen decks over here. The Pure Grass version can also afford to Red Signal. This means that Spiritomb is not a good counter. Besides I like to abuse Dowsing Maschine. VirGen is not an automatic loose but sure one of the harder matches. It comes down to which deck is able to maintain preasure over the match. Hunt Genesect fast when there are three energies attached to them. Once G-Booster has been used the attacker is left with one energy and thus Yveltal cannot ohko him in return. It is not the ohko but the potential loose of board pressure that can hurt here. Nevertheless the deck is not an automatic loose and it comes down to which deck obtains board control faster and can maintain it longer.
The same issue holds for Blastoise and Rayboar. Their main attacker is also left with little energies which disables Yveltal to ohko them back. A tech Frozen City works well here. In fact I run either one Shadow Circle or one Frozen City over the third Virbank at the moment. The choice is based on the current local metagame. More Blastoise and Rayboar means Frozen City and more Plasma means a tech Shadow Circle.
Fairies were doable from recent test runs. The deck can be fast but it has a weakness that works in favor of this deck. Their main attacker hoards energies akin to Plasma decks. This enables Yveltal to ohko them back from behind. Plasma tends to be similar.
The fun part is that all of the ones mentioned above have a conceptual hard counter in Black Toxin. VirGen is much less difficult with Lasers and the other three tend to need their abilities to win.
Trainer lock decks were not an issue at all since the three versions used thus far can be handled with Yveltal. The decks are either weak to darkness or need three energies on their attacker. This means that either Yveltal Ex or Darkrai Ex can knock them out fast. Keldeo is also nice to ensure that the attacker are not status locked. With the catcher errata on suffices to ensure that.
Not sure which other decks will show with the new set. Considered a Greninja deck that runs Greninja and his Ex version. Did not test that deck thus far but the idea sems nice. That deck is ment to be is similar to other ohko decks in that two water shuriken and an attack can ohko Pokémon Ex. It also needs to discard a lot to do so. However the deck seems more versatile than other ohko deck. Maybe a Greninja deck can also be viable and I have no idea how Speed Darkness decks would do in that match.
What were your experiences with this deck thus far?
I only did a little playtest against my friends using proxies (I only have half of my deck at the moment lol), their decks are VirGen, Blastoise (without beach), Hydreigon-Darkrai and Plasma. I won nearly every game, but I know their decks have a few flaws and will be improved soon...so next time I might not win this much.
Like you said I can totally see VirGen being a problem, but I don't want to counter with Garbodor. I think the matchup is still affordable, despite being in their favour...we just have to be faster, and this deck (in theory) is a bit faster than VirGen due to the fact that Virizion Ex needs 2 grass energies to start attacking.
I think the Blastoise matchup is even at best, but not because their main attacker is usually left with little energies; I think the main problem is that since Yveltal's Shadow doesn't have any catcher, for the opponent is pretty easy to set up Blastoise.
To solve this, like other guys said in the first page, I think a 1-0-1 Dusknoir line will be perfect.
Imho this is a good option (better than catchers also), for 2 reasons.
1) If we manage to set up Dusknoir early, it's extremely easy to kill Squirtles - Wartortles without tossing any coin; even Blastoise itself will be at serious danger...2HKOs are nearly guaranteed on him thanks to Darkrai. Moving the damage to the opponent pokemon also means that it won't be affected by any Eviolite, and this is also golden in the current meta.
2) If we can't setup any Dusknoir, because some of the cards we need are prized (this should happen in around 29% of the games), it still is an affordable match: finding space for a 1-0-1 evolution line shouldn't really compromise the speed of this deck, it will stay solid.
Like you said I can totally see VirGen being a problem, but I don't want to counter with Garbodor. I think the matchup is still affordable, despite being in their favour...we just have to be faster, and this deck (in theory) is a bit faster than VirGen due to the fact that Virizion Ex needs 2 grass energies to start attacking.
I think the Blastoise matchup is even at best, but not because their main attacker is usually left with little energies; I think the main problem is that since Yveltal's Shadow doesn't have any catcher, for the opponent is pretty easy to set up Blastoise.
To solve this, like other guys said in the first page, I think a 1-0-1 Dusknoir line will be perfect.
Imho this is a good option (better than catchers also), for 2 reasons.
1) If we manage to set up Dusknoir early, it's extremely easy to kill Squirtles - Wartortles without tossing any coin; even Blastoise itself will be at serious danger...2HKOs are nearly guaranteed on him thanks to Darkrai. Moving the damage to the opponent pokemon also means that it won't be affected by any Eviolite, and this is also golden in the current meta.
2) If we can't setup any Dusknoir, because some of the cards we need are prized (this should happen in around 29% of the games), it still is an affordable match: finding space for a 1-0-1 evolution line shouldn't really compromise the speed of this deck, it will stay solid.
Hi asodimazze,
Thanks for the input. The record sounds real nice. Mine was not that impressive but still in favor of the deck.
To me this match seems even. Both decks have a fast start but Darkness is faster in the middle of the match and thus has an easier time to recover and retain board control.
When the other side was forced to attack with Keldeo Ex it was much easier to turn the tide fast in favor of Darkness because Yveltal can abuse fueled Keldeos. Constant attack preasure and maybe a tech Frozen City work wonders here from experience.
Never tested Dusknoir out in the deck. Frozen City seems like an easier counter with Dowsing Maschine and a few sacrificed Sableye that return valued trainers and in the end win the stadium war. The Dusknoir seems to take an extra turn and I do not see how a small tech line can be faster than Blastoise's own set up. Please let me know how the tech Dusknoir line turned out. Besides Darkness Ghost is my favorite type.
Thanks for the input. The record sounds real nice. Mine was not that impressive but still in favor of the deck.
asodimazze said:
To me this match seems even. Both decks have a fast start but Darkness is faster in the middle of the match and thus has an easier time to recover and retain board control.
asodimazze said:
When the other side was forced to attack with Keldeo Ex it was much easier to turn the tide fast in favor of Darkness because Yveltal can abuse fueled Keldeos. Constant attack preasure and maybe a tech Frozen City work wonders here from experience.
asodimazze said:
Never tested Dusknoir out in the deck. Frozen City seems like an easier counter with Dowsing Maschine and a few sacrificed Sableye that return valued trainers and in the end win the stadium war. The Dusknoir seems to take an extra turn and I do not see how a small tech line can be faster than Blastoise's own set up. Please let me know how the tech Dusknoir line turned out. Besides Darkness Ghost is my favorite type.
Dark Espeon, I have tested the deck we discussed on my pot and found that Yveltal (non-ex) is just bad. It is consistently a waste of bench space and is never good for more than one attack. In fact after several hours of testing I found the deck lacking power with the exclusion of Sableye. I am going to redesigned my list a little and let you know what happens. As for the dusknoir line suggestion I disagree with running a 1-1 line. If anything a 2-2 line would be fine. I have played with dusknoir + darkrai EX in a borrowed deck and it is literally the nuts. Only reason I don't play it is because I have 0 dusknoir.
Hi It2Zoroark,
Thanks for the feedback. Our two decks are quite different since yours runs Victini Ex. Yveltal non-Ex and Victini Ex are redundant since both do almost the same. Yveltal non-Ex is mainly used as a starter in this deck and a nice alternative to Sableye. In VirGen he turned out to be the better starter since that deck disables the Lasers. In the Pure Darkness version he worked out fine thus far. Still need to test Dusknoir but it seems hard to fit a 2-2 with candies into this list.
Thanks for the feedback. Our two decks are quite different since yours runs Victini Ex. Yveltal non-Ex and Victini Ex are redundant since both do almost the same. Yveltal non-Ex is mainly used as a starter in this deck and a nice alternative to Sableye. In VirGen he turned out to be the better starter since that deck disables the Lasers. In the Pure Darkness version he worked out fine thus far. Still need to test Dusknoir but it seems hard to fit a 2-2 with candies into this list.
Dark Espeon said:
true, honestly I'd run a 2-2 ninetales with devo spray rather than 2-2 dusknoir with candies. Ninetales gives more consistency with KO's than dusknoir and can be recycled with super rod and played with it's effect and no candies required.
Hi It2Zoroark,
Sounds fine. Have another version of this deck that runs Ninetales with Devolution as a 2-2-2 line but it had to cut some corners to fit them in.
Sounds fine. Have another version of this deck that runs Ninetales with Devolution as a 2-2-2 line but it had to cut some corners to fit them in.