• When creating a thread in the Deck Garage, make sure that you post one deck per thread, you use the correct prefix, you have the set name/card number next to each card, you give a strategy for non-metagame decks, and give translations for all cards not available in English.

    When posting in a thread, be sure to explain all your suggestions thoroughly. Additionally, do not ask for advice in another member's thread.

ZPST Donk

A

alex

Miss the game
Member
Pokemon (13):
4 Zekrom
2 Pachirisu
2 Shaymin
3 Tornadus
1 Unown DARK
1 Smoochum

Energy (15):
11 Electric
3 Double Colorless
1 Special Dark

Trainers (30):
3 Switch
4 Professor Juniper
2 Professor Oak's New Theory
2 Dual Ball
4 Pokemon Collector
4 Catcher
3 Pluspower
3 Pokegear 3.0
3 Energy Search
4 Junk Arm

Strategy is simple, try to get Zekrom or Tornadus out for a donk.
 
I really dislike Tornadus in ZPS, except maybe one, but that's totally up to you. First of all, 3 Shaymins is totally unnecessarily. 90% of the time you're only gonna use the PS engine once in the game, and you don't even have room for a second time on the bench. And 4 Tornadus, and 3 Zekrom? Why? You're seriously emphasizing tornadus too much, when it only helps against donphan, every single other situation including mirror, reshiphlosion, reshiboar, magneboar, reuniclus vilpelum, reuniclus goth, and much much more Zekrom is better.

-1 Tornadus
-1 Shaymin
+1 Zekrom
+1 Cleffa

Reason being is you want as many good starters as possible. I'd personally take out all but one Tornadus, but I'm assuming you wouldn't want to.

Your energy lines looks good so far except for the special dark. Take it out for a basic dark, because you're not gaining any damage with that, and get walled by Scizor, and gets removed by Lost Remover. Although both scarce situations, better then leaving it to chance. 4 DCE I think is a bit much but if you want to keep it in that's again up to you.

-1 Sp.Dark
+1 Basic Dark
-2 DCE

No Dual Ball? Are you mad son? Dual Ball runs Zekrom, and I reccomend a 4-2 split between dual ball and collectors, with Dual Ball being the 4. I also find that I need to play 4 Juniper and 4 PONT for max consistency or at least 4 Juniper and 3 PONT. 4 Catchers is unnecessary, as well as 3 Energy Search. With that many non-draw trainers, you're going to draw dead hands a lot in the beginning something we want to avoid. I also like to fit room for at least one Revive and one Energy Retrieval, as well as 3 Defenders, because with a defender you can Bolt Strike, take only 20 and survive Donphan's EQ, and same with Blue Flare.

-2 Energy Search
-2 Collector
-1 Catcher
+4 Dual Ball
+1 PONT
+1 Revive
+1 Energy Retrieval


Hope I helped, and good luck. ZPS is a bit underrated imo, and I'd like to see more people winning with it.
 
Dual Ball is so bad though and the Sp. Dark is better in here than a basic dark.

I'd try a few simple changes:
-3 Energy Search
+2 Professor Oak's New Theory
+1 PlusPower

This makes for added consistency and better draw power. I'd rather Junk Arm a Pokegear knowing I'll get a supporter to get me an energy than Junk Arm an energy knowing my hand is dead.

Also,
-1 Shaymin
+1 Tyrogue, Thunderus or Energy Retrieval

Energy Retrieval explains itself - it's not needed but it's a nice addition. Tyrogue and Thunderus are better starters than Shaymin and with 4 Junk Arm and 4 PlusPower and 3 Switch Tyrogue can donk a lot. But it's less of a safe start than Thunderus and Thunderus can donk too.
 
Thanks for the help guys, here is my reply:

It is only about 40-50% of the time you can get a T1 Zekrom. It is about 80-90% that you can get a T1 Tornadus, and the only played basic that Tornadus cant KO are Zekrom and Reshiram. Cleffa i think is the opposite of what the deck tries to do, stalling just gives time for the opponent to set up. Tyrogue might be an idea, I'll test and see if I need a Zekrom or if its good to have that tyrogue. Energy Search is reusable energy. By taking it out I would be taking out my energy lines, one of the most important parts of Zekrom. I would be running 4 except for trainer lock. I'm going to agree with Celebi about dual balls, you can practically lose a game if you get 0 or only 1 heads. I would use Sp. Dark in a lot more situations than a regular dark, it is much more common for me to not want Tornadus to move an energy than for someone to be playing Scizor or Lost Remover. Catcher is also very important in the Tornadus version of ZPST.

-1 Shaymin
+1 Tyrogue or Zekrom (will test)
 
The point is that trainer lock is really big and that usually there are better things to Junk Arm against other stuff. I'd rather have extra draw than one or two extra energy over the course of the game, especially when I can use Oak's to draw into an energy.
 
But it would be much harder to draw into that energy if I dont run enough of it. I guess I could get rid of one Energy Search for an Oak's
 
Really? Really Dual Ball is so bad? It's highly unlikely you will get your zekrom, two lighting, one pokegear/collector hand that you want, 30% of the time I pull it off with a Zekrom start, get like a bad hand and end up Junipering/PONTing for a new hand and pulling in a dual ball, junk arm, and two lightning or something. Try testing without Dual Ball, and see how many times you end up one pokemon away from that t1 Bolt Strike. You don't have to be totally reliant on Dual Balls maybe only run two, but you often run into the times where you need it. A 4-2 Split between Collectors and Dual Ball is fine too. Trust me, if there was a card that could give me one basic into my hand I'd run it, but there isn't.

It is only about 40-50% of the time you can get a T1 Zekrom. It is about 80-90% that you can get a T1 Tornadus, and the only played basic that Tornadus cant KO are Zekrom and Reshiram.
Click to expand...

Why is it such a big difference? You are running a huge energy line, and the only difference I see between the two is the fact that you can DCE, and self generation one instead of two. If that's a problem for you, then I suggest changing your decklist. If it really is that huge of a difference though I get your point, but I don't understand how. Once you get that % up, Zekrom is always better. Being OHKOd by Reshiram and Opposing Zekrom is just too messed up IMO. You may not believe me, but at least test my changes and see how it goes. I've been testing ZPS for this format since nats last year and have gone to one BRs and placed 1st at the BRs. Cleffa you say is the opposite of what this deck is trying to do, and I totally understand that, but if you look at my view point, sometimes you are going to get horrible hands that you absolutely need to get out of. Cleffa also has free retreat making it a good start in case you don't get your favorited start. In my Gengar list that I played at nats in 09-10 I ran 1 Spiritomb AR. It was counterproductive to the deck, because I was running SpeedGar with plenty of trainers (no vileplume out yet though) but every once in a while I'd get a horrible start that I would absolutely NEED to stall, while also evolving precious Baltoys. Energy Search is reusable energies, I get that, but you don't need that many. Once you hit one you can keep Junk Arming it if you absolutely need it, but you usually don't. The problem is if you run out of energies the Energy Search is useless. Trainer Lock is also a problem. You are running way too many energies too, this is why I'd want to take some out. I only run 11 Lightning and 1 ESearch and I haven't run into any problems. On the Sp.Dark thing, yeah I agree, didn't think of that, but I find it nice to move an energy back to a Zekrom, because Tornadus has such low HP that it gets OHKOd by Reshiram and Zekrom, and you're running huge amounts of energy anyways so if it doesn't die just attach another. Catcher is just as important in ZPS and in your ZPST. But the fact of the matter is, it's dead draw in the beginning of the game. You want to up your 1st turn starts, without running into problems late game, but 3 Catchers, and 4 Junk Arm is definitely enough. Definitely. Please I understand if you wouldn't want to try my changes, but trust me on this one at least test them for a few games. After that the choice is upt o you on how you want to run this.
 
Whew, that took a while to read :p. I used to play a 4-2 split of Dual Balls/Collector, and I just could never get those 3 basics that I needed to donk. It just wasn't working. A 2-4 split actually sounds pretty good, but I dont know how to find room for it. I would defenitly test it if I could find room for the 2 Dual Balls. A difference of getting a T1 donk almost half the games is HUGE, and without having a whole lot of energy it lowers that percentage by a lot. Catcher is never a dead draw at any part of the game, in the beginning of the game you draw up the pokemon they are setting up, in the middle of the game you draw up their support pokemon, and at the end of the game you draw up easy prizes. I will test and see which space I think the Shaymin would be more valuable as, Tyrogue, Cleffa or another Zekrom.
 
Yeah I get worked up on decks that I play =P What I meant by dead draw was that it's not beneficial to getting a t1 donk and like you said it's important. 3 with 4 Junk Arm is definitely enough to get one when you need it. Yes you are correct, lots of energies is better, but there's always a such thing as too much of a good thing. I find that I'm almost never energy dry with my current energy list, and if I upped it it'd give me some pretty bad hands. Although getting that first turn donk is important, being consistent throughout the game is important too, and I wouldn't like it if I keep topdecking energies. Not much else to say here, derpityderp.
 
Did more testing, decided that energy exchanger isn't all that needed, and that the Goth match up is a hard one. Also you were right about Zekrom, a 4th is needed.

-1 Shaymin
-1 Energy Exchanger
+1 Zekrom
+1 Bellsprout
 
Bellsprout doesn't do anything for you T_T If we're going to try to counter the whole metagame, you're better off splashing 2 Mew and a Relnicath before you add in Bellsprout.

I run 14 energy in mine and it works fine - I really don't think you need 16 with 3 Energy Search. You've got to apply for some amount of a late-game.
 
Bellsprout is a great tech, its like aipom or spinarak. You drag up the reuniclus and KO it with Zekrom. You can even use it against VIleplume decks, just drag up the vileplume. I guess I could get rid of a few energy, what do you suggesting adding instead?
 
But let's think for a second-
Vileplume/Reuniclus usually runs 4 DCE so they'll attach, retreat and kill your Bellsprout with Donphan. This wastes your turn when you could have put 120 damage on their field instead.

Gothitelle/Reuniclus runs Switch and some of them run DCE or Shaymin too, so they'll be able to pull this off even more easily.

Vileplume/Mew/Yanmega is already one of your best matchups and the deck often attaches energy to Vileplume early anyway.

Also it's completely different from Aipom and Spinarak. Those trap things in the active, while Bellsprout brings them active.

I'd drop the Energy Search for 2 more Oak's and another PlusPower or a Tyrogue.
 
Ok, I get your reasoning for Bellsprout, but what can I use to counter Goth? I'll test switching the Energy Search for Oak's and Pluspower.
 
Like I said, use 2+ Mew and a Relnicath. Hurl Tornadus via Relnicath and then you can KO 2 or more Goths depending on how quickly you do it. Mew's free retreat also makes it a good start for the deck and creates more donks, although Relnicath is horrible.
 
ok. here is the basic skeleton for a zps donk

4 zekroms
2 shaymin
3 pachirisu
2 tornadus
1 smeargle

your TSS engine should consist of these, usually in amounts of 3-4(really up to you and what you like):
juniper
energy search
super scoop up
dual ball
switch
junkarm
plus power
pokegear


the whole point of the ZPS donk is to get zekrom fully charged turn 1. all your other cards take away from this goal, and thus makes the deck inconsistant.

i would suggest you take out:
pokemon collector (use dual balls instead. you want to be able to use junipers first turn)
unown dark (does not belong here in anyway)
bellsprout (does not belong in the deck)
sp dark (does not belong in the deck)

These cards take away from the deck's purpose and consistancy and should be replaced with cards that:
help you get energy
help you get your 3 basic pokemon
and helps you get a juniper so you can discard the rest of your hand and get another 7 new cards to use.
The majority of ZPS deck are trainer items so that you can burn through your hand and set up fast
 
@ Celebi
I dont think that adding 3+ cards to my deck solely for the purpose of defeating on deck would make it way to slow against any other deck. I think I am going to take out the Bellsprout anyways.

@Ogeray
Thanks for the help. I am thinking of lowering the Tornadus line to 3 or 2, because I went to a battle roads yesterday and I didnt see a single Donphan. Smeargle sounds like a very good idea, I shall definitely find room for it. I was also trying to find space for about 2 Dual Ball, but I love Pokemon Collector so much more. It is much more reliable. I used to play 4-2 Dual Ball-Collector, but I just kept failing on those flips and it really started to get me. I think a 2-4 is the best thing to do. I see no point in adding a 3rd Pachi, if anything adding a 3rd Shaymin would be better because I could move energy off a dying Zekrom. You say to add things to help you find energy, Unown Dark does exactly that. It is basically an energy searchable with Dual Ball or Collector. Super Scoop Ups I just can not find room anywhere. Bellsprout I think I will take out of the deck, as the ideas you gave will make the deck a lot faster and will take Gothitelle out of the picture.

-1 Bellsprout
-1 Tornadus
-1 DCE
+1 Smeargle
+2 Dual Ball

For the change with getting rid of the DCE, I will test and see if that energy is actually more helpful than a Dual Ball. Maybe I could get rid of another Tornadus instead?


EDIT: Just remembered Smeargle doesnt have free retreat, that could make it a lot less playable. I will test it. If only unown q was still legal :/
 
How do you plan on getting Smeargle out of the active slot after you use his power? In general he's a pretty bad card and he gives way too much power to your opponent.

If you see a lot of Gothitelle, adding 2 free retreaters and a clutch draw that will have a huge impact on the matchup won't cost you that much consistency at all. If anything, it adds extra consistency because you'll get less Pachi/Shaymin starts. You could drop Unown Dark for 2 of those spots; it was good before DCE needed to be in the deck but now it's trying to balance way too many energy types and it adds another bad starter to the deck.
 
Ok ok, I will try to test as much as I can against Gothitelle at league this Saturday, and I will try to find some games on playtcg. I will test bellsprout, smeargle and the mews and relicanth.
 
I did a little testing, and Smeargle got in the way a little more than it helped because of its retreat cost. Also, I would rather not take out the Unown for the Mews, Unown has gotten me so many donks that I would very much like to keep it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top