(1) Gothitelle and Ferrothorn from 'Emerging Powers' [8/5]

Mew the source of all said:
Gothitelle uses hype up...again. Where I can understand why people like the card it really isn't that amazing.

My problem with it is the same thing it was when we first heard about it. It has to be active, second it really doesn't the same menacing attack a lot of pokemon. It does 90 damage for 3, and that's if they're all psychic, and more than likely the player will choose to use some DCE due to speed, so that's actually 50 damage. That's nothing compared to the massive basics that are dominating the format like Reshi.
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eh? how about when you got 4 psychic energy attached at turn 4? thats 110. then another psychic energy attached at turn 5 thats now 130. With the item lock reshiram cant ohko goth because theres no plus power. whereas the the one with goth can use max potions and ordinary potions to heal up goth.
 
RobertBenjamin said:
eh? how about when you got 4 psychic energy attached at turn 4? thats 110. then another psychic energy attached at turn 5 thats now 130. With the item lock reshiram cant ohko goth because theres no plus power. whereas the the one with goth can use max potions and ordinary potions to heal up goth.
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People don't use potions.
 
I like the artwork on these 2 cards and their attacks are probably one of the better cards since the 3rd gen minus the EX cards of course. These cards look pretty good. With every new set means each card looks better all the time. I don't know how they do it XD.:)
 
RobertBenjamin said:
eh? how about when you got 4 psychic energy attached at turn 4? thats 110. then another psychic energy attached at turn 5 thats now 130. With the item lock reshiram cant ohko goth because theres no plus power. whereas the the one with goth can use max potions and ordinary potions to heal up goth.
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There are several problems with your argument. First and foremost 4 energy for 110 is ridiculous and shouldn't be required, and most people won't bother when they can prepare another one, second that's still 3-4 turns for the 90 (excluding DCE for 50) Second where it's true Pluspower becomes unavailable it is stupid to think that gives you game, Reshi can 2 shot Gothi, and depending on the build maybe even provide a tech to counter with, which I might add Gothi can't. That doesn't even begin to consider other decks that might arise in format. Finally as for potion, you are joking right, normal potion is unreliable and heals a small amount of damage, and Max Potion/Full Restore discards the energy attached to it thus making it incredibly difficult to attack that turn. On the other hand decks like Reshi can use Max Potion and resupply energy quickly.
 
RobertBenjamin said:
eh? how about when you got 4 psychic energy attached at turn 4? thats 110. then another psychic energy attached at turn 5 thats now 130. With the item lock reshiram cant ohko goth because theres no plus power. whereas the the one with goth can use max potions and ordinary potions to heal up goth.
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I agree with RobertBenjamin. First and foremost, there are a lot of Pokemon out there who can easily beat Gothitelle before it even has 3 energies. Donphan 3HKOs with a one energy attack, and even if Gothitelle gets a chance to attack, Donphan still won't be KOed. and the Zekrom-Shaymin-Pachirisu build that I have seen a few times recently can very easily donk it out too. Anyways, I cannot see this getting much use because it does not produce a very good main attacker, and there are now a lot of Pokemon who can take it out easily.
 
RobertBenjamin said:
eh? how about when you got 4 psychic energy attached at turn 4? thats 110. then another psychic energy attached at turn 5 thats now 130. With the item lock reshiram cant ohko goth because theres no plus power. whereas the the one with goth can use max potions and ordinary potions to heal up goth.
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And discard all your energy?

And how will you handle ZPS? There's nothing to lock T2, if Gothitelle even comes up T2, which it most likely won't. The only thing I could see it good against is Yanmega, because if you dump your hand low, it'll be hard for them with out Trainers.
 
I agree with glaceon about the max potion thing. Is ZPS just the Zekrom Pachirisu Shaymin deck? Even if Gothitelle were to survive the attack from Zekrom, Outrage would KO it and have its power boosted to 60.
 
Yes, ZPS is Zekrom Pachirisu Shaymin.

The thing is, they may not even get a Gothitelle out. A T1 Zekrom will mean that there is nothing for Gothitelle to keep from setting up, and with lousy damage output, Gothitelle will do 50 at most (Pluspowers not included).
 
I'm not supporting the Gothitelle, I'm saying it's too easy to KO to be any use. ZPS is its worst nightmare because if you are lucky it needs no trainers to donk on the first or second turn.
 
RobertBenjamin said:
That may be true but imagine if with rare candy you have a turn 2 Goth and are doing 50 damage and preventing your opponent from using items (meaning you can use max potion, pokemon catcher, potion while your foe cant!). You still have an advantage!
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And a Jirachi/Energy Swtich Accel gets you the 90 for a T2 donk.

Mew the source of all said:
My problem with it is the same thing it was when we first heard about it. It has to be active, second it really doesn't the same menacing attack a lot of pokemon. It does 90 damage for 3, and that's if they're all psychic, and more than likely the player will choose to use some DCE due to speed, so that's actually 50 damage. That's nothing compared to the massive basics that are dominating the format like Reshi.
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Concerning the early game, it is indeed difficult to hit a massive sweep. Goth can't compare to Reshi but it's still a viable deck. I've already covered an energy accel variant and healing here. The key point is to make sure that you don't lose Goth, because that would leave you nasty trouble in terms of recovery. Even if it's still slow, you have to remember that you can start a T2 lock with Goth.
 
glaceon said:
And discard all your energy?

And how will you handle ZPS? There's nothing to lock T2, if Gothitelle even comes up T2, which it most likely won't. The only thing I could see it good against is Yanmega, because if you dump your hand low, it'll be hard for them with out Trainers.
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Any deck can theoretically be T1 donked by ZPS that is if the ZPS player gets a good starting hand and the opposing player gets a bad hand and to add to that loses the coin toss. but as a ZPS player myself I know that there are 6 prize cards to be won and not 1 prize card to win the game. My experience has taught me that some good decks can mount a comeback and beat my ZPS deck. My ZPS experience also taught me sometimes I do not get a good hand to get a powered up Zekrom at turn 1.

a smart player wont place goth's basic up at attacking position (if you track back in my previous post i consider goth as a late attacker). I would use Muk as my first attacker while im powering up Goth. With Muk you can switch Zekrom with an unpowered benched zekrom. Hell to make it even better Ill throw in a baby Pokemon as a staller while I try to set up for Goth (Tyrogue, Cleffa). A smart psychic player can also opt for a hypno tech on the bench to add the chance to put the attacker to sleep using its pokepower . Once you've powered up Goth then bring it up. As you see Psychic will be fun in EP. A Goth deck may not be a tier one deck but a viable deck.
 
Zyflair said:
And a Jirachi/Energy Swtich Accel gets you the 90 for a T2 donk.

Concerning the early game, it is indeed difficult to hit a massive sweep. Goth can't compare to Reshi but it's still a viable deck. I've already covered an energy accel variant and healing here. The key point is to make sure that you don't lose Goth, because that would leave you nasty trouble in terms of recovery. Even if it's still slow, you have to remember that you can start a T2 lock with Goth.
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I looked at the response you posted and I still have to disagree. First of all where Jirachi is a good way to get energy you still have to get the energy into the discard pile, get heads on the coin flips, and switch the energy, and where yes you could use Energy Switch there are far better options like Shaymin and Mismagius UL. As for the healing point Reuniclus is difficult to set-up immediately (speaking from experience) and even then relieving 5 damage counters really isn't that much in most cases. Also that plan falls apart if the opponent is also playing Goth or Vileplume. Furthermore it isn't that hard to lose a Goth, just look at Reshi decks, they lose Reshi's often but can still throw another Reshi at you immediately. I would also like to point out that last format demonstrated that Trainers aren't essential for victory and a deck can be put on a lower priority.

Finally I am not saying that the card is bad, but that I feel that it is incredibly over-hyped and has several flaws to answer for before I can start agreeing with it's worth.
 
LillipupFTW said:
When does Emerging Powers come out? Also, I like the design of them. As for the attacks, eh.
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The set comes out on August 31st while the Prereleases start on the 14th.
 
Mew the source of all said:
I looked at the response you posted and I still have to disagree. First of all where Jirachi is a good way to get energy you still have to get the energy into the discard pile, get heads on the coin flips, and switch the energy, and where yes you could use Energy Switch there are far better options like Shaymin and Mismagius UL. As for the healing point Reuniclus is difficult to set-up immediately (speaking from experience) and even then relieving 5 damage counters really isn't that much in most cases. Also that plan falls apart if the opponent is also playing Goth or Vileplume. Furthermore it isn't that hard to lose a Goth, just look at Reshi decks, they lose Reshi's often but can still throw another Reshi at you immediately. I would also like to point out that last format demonstrated that Trainers aren't essential for victory and a deck can be put on a lower priority.
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I had forgotten about either Shaymin or Mismagius (speaks for how long I've been in this format). What you point out makes sense, so I'll just back down on the debate and try Goth anyway when it comes out.
 
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