(1) Nintendo Follow-Up [9/21]

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Can I just say, Pokemaniac is spot on. As a webmaster myself of the UK's Pokémon Community I acknowledge that I have to play by the rules of Nintendo as well. I don't really understand why Water Pokémon Master is taking this situation and then probing it into a comic.

Face it, we all come to pokémon websites to meet other pokémon fans and to discuss in the brand new latest happenings in the pokémon world. Plus with the big perk we know that webmasters like Water Pokémon Master will fill us in with marvelous details of the games giving us a great hype.

But as clearly explained by Pokemaniac, we're not the target audience. A target audience is an audience that are not completely sure if they'll be buying the game or not. Usually aimed at the ages that don't go around forums reading up information. The fact is some wizz kids can do this but the only wizz they're is finding the obvious ones, pokebeach is an obvious one.

I'm not too fussed about american laws and policy in this matter as obviously it doesn't concern me too much as in the UK we have a different system although in relation we do have to understand that the lawyer has clearly notified that these sprites are for the japanese eyes only for now. Sure, call it whatever you like, go ahead, slag off the creators who give you such fine games that you end up playing, what a hypocrite you're.

As a smart fan of the franchise, you'd know where to go to find these images. Hell, even a smart fan will find the ROMs and go play them to get them hyped already knowing they'll buy the game anyway. Fact is Nintendo aim at the target audience and with a new generation of fans, they want to try something different, their projections for sales possibly are believed to be slipping thanks to fansites publishing the images. Ryu Shoji, the news writer for my site quickly upon good speculation removed these images of BW in order to preserve good ties with Nintendo. At the end of the day, if they don't like what's on my site they'll do what they have done in the past with even popular websites which has happened, shut them down.

Water Pokémon Master, I truly love the work you do for the fans here. I think your dedication is superb and does deserve much credit but I really do stress that your closed minded view on this situation does not help what Nintendo is trying to achieve. Your intentions were to make a fan site based on the games you loved, don't make it out like you have the right to take a shot at high paid lawyers for Nintendo who probably get paid less then you but might have a better grasp of BOTH sides of this situation then you currently have. The amount of earnings you probably make from advertisement doesn't all get spent on hosting and these trips to japan to then give us more information, your earnings are far more.


I hate to be original but, with great power comes great responsibility, you're not being responsible by having a punt at the Nintendo Lawyers, you're just saying to them that you want to create some kind of resistance to their means. Sure, if you want to have a great debate with them at least take honor in what they're saying instead of writing a news article bent on just escalating this issue further. If you're serious about fighting your corner, do it with a bit more honor as has the other major sites that have tackled this issue far more professionally then you.

All the best with this though, this sounds like an interesting bit of current affairs for the pokémon community, my mother was a barrister for most of her life and I know quite a few of them myself. Judging by these quotes, it's best just to go with what they say, only because if they do end up getting better sales, the public events will get more money spent on them, such as VGC and TCG Events, so if you do enjoy these events, it's best to support this move on financial terms.

On a side note though, I can't help but miss viewing those images! I'll just have to wait like the rest of the target audience. ;)
 
I, personally, feel that Nintendo has gone too far.

Like Scy has said, if these C&D letters had gone out a month or so before the Japanese release, then I would understand. The fact is that we live in 2010, not 1998. Information travels at such a speed that it could almost be called instantaneous. That isn't to say we NEED the information, but that we will get it one way or another. Even if Nintendo beat down every fan site on the net, sites like '2ch' would still abound with media and information. In this day and age, people find whatever they're looking for. Ask any politician who had mud dug up on himself by some geek on a computer.

My point is this: media used for informative purposes has been treated--until recently!--as something separate. It is almost a given that this media will be passed around one way or another, and that the only threat is found when the media is being used for non-informative purposes. Heck, I could maybe understand if Nintendo just told you to remove the pictures of the starters from the Pokebeach front page, but instead they are upset that you posted images specifically for the purpose of imforming people. Their move was completely wrong-headed. The fact is that this is very insulting to many of us, and to dismiss us as 'kids' or 'babies' is missing the point. We aren't crying because we live in a idealistic world where video game companies are only out to make us happy, we're upset because a company we have supported has decided to lash out and stomp on the very communities that have helped make it popular in the first place. Many of us grew up with Nintendo in a way, so this isn't just WPM crying in a corner...it does have a slightly personal quality to it, and that makes it even more insulting.

I sent Nintendo an email about the whole situation and got the standard reply. No, I didn't think that my one email would suddenly make them change their minds, but I'm also not going to be one of the masses who just lets people get away with thinking what they have chosen to do is fine. I want my name to go down as specifically against this, instead of someone who just dismissed it as typical business action.

This isn't just a problem with Nintendo or Pokemon, though, many gaming companies are showing their true colors. Gaming is bigger business than ever, and with that comes many good and bad things. Look at all the big namers that have begun to transform into massive companies with little to no respect for their customers: Namco-Bandai, EA, Activision-Blizzard, Sony, Microsoft....the entire industry is in a very uncertain place right now. The profits and dealings are high, and so are the stakes. I'm just sad that it means the once close relationship between gamer and game producer has come to an end.
 
Pokerob said:
you're not being responsible by having a punt at the Nintendo Lawyers
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That's part of the perks of being unofficial. License to be as crazy as you want, or just completely do away with formalities. If he were helming Pokemon.com he wouldn't have suck luxury.
 
Wow, I still can't believe that Nintendo is acting this way. I really hope they have a change of heart soon.
WPM, sorry that you along with other fansite owners are having to deal with all this.
We appreciate all your hard work for the Pokemon community. Just hang in there. D:
 
Pokerob@ wrong, nintendo has a massive fanbase, a majority don't usually go to fanbased site's nor do they contend with them but avoid the narrow minded absolution to go after the major market, the norm, the person that go's to school, work's, yada yada but has no interest in being overly informed like the rest of us, in fact it's called mindless, or mass marketing. these tactic's are crude but effective for what they want, getting more money. capitalist's

cya
 
Pokerob@ wrong, nintendo has a massive fanbase, a majority don't usually go to fanbased site's nor do they contend with them but avoid the narrow minded absolution to go after the major market, the norm, the person that go's to school, work's, yada yada but has no interest in being overly informed like the rest of us, in fact it's called mindless, or mass marketing. these tactic's are crude but effective for what they want, getting more money. capitalist's

cya
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You already cya'd the first time.

Also, capitalism is probably the reason why you have money in your own pocket and sufficient food on your table right now. Businesses maximise profit. It's what they do. It's what they're supposed to do. Anything in a business that seems to be for the customer's sake (eg. service, free gifts, discounts, etc) are all calculated strategies to draw in more revenue.
 
Really if you don't see why WPM is upset, then you really have to open your eyes. I don't think he's too upset that he can't post images, I think he's more upset that he had to take them down. Pokerob, if you are a webmaster then you should know how much work it goes to runner a website, and then when someone tells you to pretty much erase all of your work, then you would be pretty mad. I personally think WPM has every right to be upset, as do all the people who go to these fansites.

But on the topic here, this is all I have to say:
The only reason why I knew about BW is because of pokebeach.com. Because of their coverage lead me to buy Pokemon White and import it from japan. I spent almost double on a game, in a language I don't even understand. So really, I don't see how this is damaging Nintendo and I really don't care if they're right in doing this.
 
@Varit Maybe you should get out more then and see the wonderful work Nintendo does for the fans like yourself. VGC and TCG all benefit from bigger profit margins and better success in the market. We will reap the benefits, maybe not as much but will quite a bit.

@Scuba Steeve - Yes I do know what it's like to have my work replaced and even removed but to say ALL of your work is dramatizing your statement. It is a lot of hard work to put them on and sure, it is a pain to take them down but unfortunately if you don't realise as a webmaster I earn cash to support my hosting from advertisement, just like WPM does (I think he earns SLIGHTLY more then me, though this is not the point) and hence as a pokémon fanbase that has been asked by the owners of whom your fanbase couldn't do without you would have to necessarily do as they say but to publicly whine about it and mock is really showing a low level sense of class dealing with this situation.
 
EXACTLY However now that i think about it the sprites were taken from a JAPANESE game. So they are technically copyrighted and therfore publishable. No blood No foul. Just make sure in the post you say "Sprites taken from the japanese pocket monsters black white game" Be all techincal and they are screwed. I win. I could be a lawyer
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Really if you don't see why WPM is upset, then you really have to open your eyes. I don't think he's too upset that he can't post images, I think he's more upset that he had to take them down. Pokerob, if you are a webmaster then you should know how much work it goes to runner a website, and then when someone tells you to pretty much erase all of your work, then you would be pretty mad. I personally think WPM has every right to be upset, as do all the people who go to these fansites.

But on the topic here, this is all I have to say:
The only reason why I knew about BW is because of pokebeach.com. Because of their coverage lead me to buy Pokemon White and import it from japan. I spent almost double on a game, in a language I don't even understand. So really, I don't see how this is damaging Nintendo and I really don't care if they're right in doing this.
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^^^
This, and this.

Seriously, I'm actually having trouble conceiving the fact that Nintendo think that the coverage is going to damage the franchise? They should come to these forums. I mean, scuba stevee imported the games in a different language, just so he could play them, because he saw the coverage and images on this site, and I'm sure many others have too. I'm waiting for the English, but the coverage still makes me want the games even more!!! Nintendo should go to the forums of all the sites they've targeted (apart from Serebii maybe, loading time sucks), and see just how many people are being encouraged by these sites. My friend, his sister, and their friends are all excited thanks to fan sites. I'm pretty sure if they did a poll, 90% of fans or more would give positive reactions towards sites like this! How can Nintendo fail to see that if anything, these sites are HELPING the franchise?

This is seriously messed up. I say upload the sprites using Crimson Tide's 'Sprites from Japanese games' tactic. That way, the retards at NoA can't bash you for it. Funny that after seven years or more of these fan sites helping their franchise, they decide to bash them like this. Amazing. >_>

BTW love the Front Page post. Great job. ;)
 
I guess some people don't like his sense of humor. I personally don't mind it and I don't know, maybe he's trying to shed some light in what some people would say is an awful situation. Lol a low sense of class. You really can't judge someone in this type of situation, when he's obviously pissed off.

Edit: Thank you Yoshi007. Maybe if I can see the "damage" then maybe I would understand their actions more.
 
What happened to the Ditto's :S XD
Okay Nintendo maybe right in doing this be they are completely milking the situation. Wow one of their big games have been released and people are posting images on the internet, *sarcasm* has that not happened before? If they are too paranoid in there being Spoilers in the games then, yes a worldwide release would work, (but this would affect the anime aswell)
After reading this I can see many reasons why Nintendo have done this, but I still dont think it was right in doing this...
Offtopic:(Which reminds me, Woo Best Wishes Anime Tommorow! XD)
 
@Pokerob I personally think that going on to a website forum and posting comments as though you are on a moral high ground to somebody is not very classy either, but I digress...

It really is hard to understand exactly what is going on here, especially because that lawyer who contacted WPM seemed to be purposely ambiguous. I think it has less to do with "spoilers" than it has to do with Nintendo worried about merchandise being produced via those images. Perhaps then saw the images and thought the sprites could be used to make a pirated version (too late...) or a knock off version to be sold to people that *don't* know the difference.

That being said, do I support what Nintendo did? No, not at all. I think for so long, people have thought of Nintendo as "the good guys" who have given us beloved franchises and memories like mario, zelda and pokemon, and they've been the comparatively friendliest face of gaming. Maybe thats why it's so shocking to see them behave in such an authoritarian manner. I think Nintendo has been very foolish to threaten fans who are making zero profit from simply displaying what so many people, in Japan or otherwise have already seen, consolidated on to one website. Do they have the right to since it's their content? Sure why not. Does that mean they should have? Absolutely not.

There's nothing WPM or Pokebeach or Serebii or any sites affected could realistically do about it, which is sad. I as much as anybody would love to throw this back in Nintendo's face. Maybe we should get 156 people with teeshirts of the new sprites and just linger around the Nintendo headquarters for awhile haha.
 
I don't really think any of us are contending that Nintendo doesn't have the right to the release of these images, and all of it's media in general. We all understand that all of these things are Nintendo's property, the problem is that attacking fansites like this crosses an unseen line.

Between fans and copy-right holders, this line is well known. There's an unsaid rule that anything used by fans for the enjoyment of other fans is alright, as long as it isn't for monetary gain. In other words, it's fine if you want to post a Harry Potter fan fiction online...but it's not ok if you want to publish said fan fiction or sell it on a website.

This line has obviously been crossed by Nintendo, who has up until this point honored it. (I mean if they had really wanted to, they could have gotten upset at all the PokePorn there is on the net, but...) The law is on Nintendo's side and we all understand that, which is why WPM took down all the disputed images. The point is, however, that while Nintendo may have the law on its side, it doesn't mean what it did was RIGHT.
 
I actually sent an angry letter myself to Nintendo about this, it may have been harsh but nothing they don't deserve. I basically said that people don't buy this games out of any effect from their advertising campaigns - it's sites like yours who hype people up and tell people what they want to know before they can buy then and it brings fans together and generates so much more. I told them to expect angry people contacting them and its gonna do no good for their company. They can suck ass for all I care, they don't care about their actual games, just the profit it brings them. The images actually made me WANT TO BUY THE GAME. Maybe they should read the effect those images had before they act hastily in threatening people's hard work. You and other sites spent so much of your own money hosting a site, dedicated to this great franchise and it's not rewarded in any way... I told them they should have a heart and I am ridiculously disappointed in them.
 
Like multiple people have said, Nintendo is pretending that people don't know about Japan.
My idea is that on the official US website they are going to start a "who's that pokemon?" thing where you come back on a regular basis before B&W are released and they reveal a pokemon. I think it's for this reason they are making sites take down the images so that they can pretend that no one can tell that a silhouette is of Pokabu.

Just my 2 cents
 
The letter was proved to be fake, so I doubt WPM is going to jail. And, that's not a question you should speak out loud.
 
This is getting messed up. A simple question which requires an answer like Yes or No should be answered with a Yes or No. Not with freaking words that you have to open the dictionary each second cause you have no clue on what he is talking about!!

WPM has a point. If nintendo releases the games everywhere at the same time they would actualy make more money because when the JAP games comes out, people over USA or whereever will download the roms and then once they go thorough the hole story won't even be interested to get the english (only some) cause they know what's in store!!!! SO we can clearly see that nintendo looses money and customers here like this ... ohh well

Sites like Serebii or Pokebeach is the only reason why i am so interested in pokemon cause it creates a comminunity which you want to come back to share anything possible about pokemon! If sites like this are taken away I can most likely assume that pokemon fans will leave the franchise aswell!!!
 
To all those who disagree with the vast majority of us and think that what Nintendo is doing is beneficial and the right thing to do, please, wake up. There are absolutely NO benefits to this situation for anyone - not WPM, not Serebii, not even Nintendo. I cannot stress this enough, but just because Nintendo have the rights and the power to do this doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing to do. Nintendo are proving to be a selfish, corrupt business at this time - they care about their profits more than their fans, but there's still a correlation between the two... More fans = more profit. If Nintendo thinks that money grows on trees, why are they even a business? Why do they bother with anything if they want to drive fans away with their crazy antics? It's a strange twist actually, and here's why...

Nintendo exist as a business because they want to make money. To get the money, they need a large fan base, and to get a large fan base they need to work for it by providing not only quality products, but also quality services and a positive attitude. I have no problems with any of their products, but their attitude is what is driving so many people away from them, which says the following... Less fans = less profit/loss. So, if they want to lose fans, they should expect to lose money. If they expect to lose money (as in, A LOT), then why carry on being a business? If we as fans can't have it our way, then so be it. We don't need people telling us that, because at the end of the day it's going to hit Nintendo with an almighty bang when their business hits rock-bottom, and perhaps that would count as justice for the fans they let down. All we are trying to do is express ourselves, regardless of whether or not Nintendo chooses to listen to us. In fact, as fans we are very helpful to Nintendo, because not only are we providing them with free advertising, but we also care enough to say that they should watch out, because being short-sighted can lead to a bad move, and that could be their ultimate downfall. Essentially, we are also giving them an inevitable warning of the potential consequences that may follow. So, the choice is yours, Nintendo.

[/rant]
 
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