(2) BW5 Commercial's Cards, New Article [3/1]

Rayquaza EX is great. Eelektrik has yet another partner, and the damage output is ridiculous. T2 120? And a T3 180? Yes please. Throw in the fact Skyarrow allows you to switch between Rayquazas on the Bench, and you have a winning deck. This will be BRUTAL.
 
The Yoshi said:
When I saw Giratina-EX, I was excited to see its artwork until I saw it in its regular Forme. Why, TPCi, why must you not give us the Original Forme....:[
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Perhaps they decided to go with Altered Forme this time around since the Origin Forme was used for its Lv.X card? (Its Altered Forme is featured on the pack, so wasn't this choice kind of expected?)

I'm actually more a fan of Altered Forme than Origin, so I appreciate the fact they gave its EX card to Altered Forme. The artwork is pretty nice as well.

The attack cost, though, is a little confusing. Since most Dragon-Types have attack costs that reflect two colors from their color scheme or one of their Types + a color from their color scheme, the choice for Grass on Giratina doesn't make much sense to me, aside from the point mentioned earlier in this thread by signofzeta that its body resembles a centipede. (The Psychic makes sense since one of its Types is Ghost.)
 
I can definitely see Rayquaza being played. It is like a basic form of Magnezone. with ups and downs.
I'm guessing that the Kyogre Groudon and Rayquaza EX are leadong up to Ruby and Saphire remakes too.
 
Ophie said:
For the first issue, it's because Land cards in Magic and Energy cards in Pokémon are different in the way you use them. They are both deck fuel, but Energy gets expended way more frequently and easily than Land, and they're used for different purposes overall.

In general, Lands sit there on the field outside of anything else. You add one more each turn, but they occupy their own place while in play. Lands provide entry costs, and unless stated otherwise, Creatures can attack for free. In Pokémon, you attach Energy cards onto Pokémon in order for them to attack, but all Pokémon have the same entry costs if they're at the same evolutionary stage (besides Pokémon Lv. X and Pokémon LEGEND).

In other words, every Creature played in Magic takes from the same Mana pool of Land cards, whereas each Pokémon has to have its own supply of Energy cards. Thus, Energy management is much harder than Land management. In addition, Energy is discarded often in Pokémon, either through the Pokémon it's attached to getting knocked out, attacks and/or cards that discard Energy like Lost Remover or many Fire attacks, or retreating. Energy cards also can't be easily switched between Pokémon (well, unless you put in cards that allow you to do so like Shaymin), so at any given moment, an Energy card is fulfilling at most one purpose.

In other words, in Magic, you can afford to put in some different Lands because you can use them for other things later. You can begin with a Forest and play a Creature with a 1 Green Mana cost, and the next turn, you can play a Mountain and play an Enchantment with a cost of 1 Green and 1 Red. Whereas in Pokémon, to use an attack that requires different Energy colors, you have to already have those Energy cards in your hand, ready to use specifically on that Pokémon, and if you want to power up another one, you need to do it all over again.

As for the second point, Dragon-types quite often have low catch rates, but not always. For instance, Reshiram and Zekrom have some pretty high catch rates, higher than Murkrow and Mantyke. There is also Axew, whose catch rate is equal to Yanma's and Stunfisk's and higher than Farfetch'd's. If you want hard to catch, there are many mundane Pokémon with ridiculously low catch rates. Basculin is roughly twice as hard to catch as Reshiram and Zekrom and three times as hard as Axew. Beldum is about eight times as hard to catch as Basculin.
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Let's say Giratina EX dies and so does 1 grass and 1 psychic energy. I don't know about you, but if you can somehow revive Giratina EX, you can use some other cards to get energy cards from the discard pile, like super rod, or something like that.

If you can't handle multi energy cost cards, then you don't deserve to play with dragon types.

And for the person who wants to know what tutor is, maybe I'm using the wrong word, but tutor, is a card that fetches any card in the deck, so something like Harrow tutors lands.

The chances of powering a {P}{P} attack is the same as powering a {P}{G} attack. The chances of pulling a psychic energy in your deck is the same as pulling a grass energy. The only difference is that, the one with a {P}{G} attack only works in decks with psychic and grass energies, while one with {P}{P} attack works in decks with psychic energy, and any other energy, or the deck can run only on psychic energies. If you think it is hard to get a {P}{G} attack to work, then it is just as hard to get a {P}{P} attack to work. The chances of pulling any one energy card from your deck is the same. Let's say your hand has 1 psychic energy, and you have a pokemon that needs to power up a {P}{P} attack. You draw a grass energy. How is that any different from powering a {P}{G} attack and you have 1 psychic energy in hand, and you draw a psychic energy? I seriously see no difference here.
 
What frustrates me about the Pokemon selection for Japan's BW3-BW5 is that the pre-BW Pokemon are mostly ones that were already in the HGSS block. There are actually a TON of Pokemon who aren't in the current rotation and haven't been for YEARS, but most of the Pokemon revealed in this commercial are retreads from HGSS. Glad to see Feebas, Electrike and Cascoon though... I hope there's a few more forgotten older Pokemon to be revealed.
 
Darkrai909 said:
Magic is nothing like pokemon why would you try to compare.
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I agree that magic is nothing like pokemon. While pokemon is the ECHL, Magic is the NHL, because apparently, people here could grasp the concept of energy costs like {P}{P} but they can't deal with {P}{G}. Be glad you don't have an attack with {G}{R}{W}{L} as its cost.

There is one thing that should be fixed, and it is to make the attacks more powerful to justify the cost, and the fact that they are dragons. That's about the only thing. Other than that, the multi energy costs should stay. We also don't even know if dragon types take a minor percentage of the set. If that's the case, then you won't have to worry about dealing with dragon types, because the chances of you pulling one will be small.
 
signofzeta said:
I agree that magic is nothing like pokemon. While pokemon is the ECHL, Magic is the NHL, because apparently, people here could grasp the concept of energy costs like {P}{P} but they can't deal with {P}{G}. Be glad you don't have an attack with {G}{R}{W}{L} as its cost.

There is one thing that should be fixed, and it is to make the attacks more powerful to justify the cost, and the fact that they are dragons. That's about the only thing. Other than that, the multi energy costs should stay. We also don't even know if dragon types take a minor percentage of the set. If that's the case, then you won't have to worry about dealing with dragon types, because the chances of you pulling one will be small.
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Lugia has had ridiculous energy type attacks and hasnt seen play because of it pokemon is about wooed magic takes time that's why people chose it over the other I doubt you can win turn one in magic as you can in pokemon and not all dragons have had crazy costs usually only salamance or rayqauza so when you throw in a new type and make them jumbled with energy costs people are gonna complain and those that can run dragons will and have a hard time doing so because of today's fast format.
 
Darkrai909 said:
Lugia has had ridiculous energy type attacks and hasnt seen play because of it pokemon is about wooed magic takes time that's why people chose it over the other I doubt you can win turn one in magic as you can in pokemon and not all dragons have had crazy costs usually only salamance or rayqauza so when you throw in a new type and make them jumbled with energy costs people are gonna complain and those that can run dragons will and have a hard time doing so because of today's fast format.
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Then maybe if you want to play dragon cards, you should slow down a bit. Not everyone like to play a first turn win. If you want to play a first turn win, then stay away from dragons then. Nobody is stopping you.

In magic, it takes brains to do a one turn win. Hence why Pokemon is ECHL, and Magic is NHL. The fact that there is less 1 turn wins in magic is because the cards are designed in such a way that it is impossible to do a 1 turn win, much like how dragon cards are designed in such a way that it is impossible to do a 1 turn win with it.

I assume that if you do play magic, you should stay away from control decks.
 
signofzeta said:
Then maybe if you want to play dragon cards, you should slow down a bit. Not everyone like to play a first turn win. If you want to play a first turn win, then stay away from dragons then. Nobody is stopping you.

In magic, it takes brains to do a one turn win. Hence why Pokemon is ECHL, and Magic is NHL. The fact that there is less 1 turn wins in magic is because the cards are designed in such a way that it is impossible to do a 1 turn win, much like how dragon cards are designed in such a way that it is impossible to do a 1 turn win with it.

I assume that if you do play magic, you should stay away from control decks.
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You can still do a one turn kill with enough skill with a dragon especially with giratina I prefer decks to be fun and more skill to win hence why I build rouge decks
 
I don't know if Durant with Hypno counts as "rouge", but okay.

@SignofZeta: There have been Lugia, which has almost always had a {R}{W}{L}, and Regigigas LV.X, which has had the slightly less daunting {F}{W}{M}{C} (why less daunting? Lugia made you discard everything), so multi-energy types are by no means new.

Honestly, I think the main reason why people don't want to play Dragon-type cards (anyone who doesn't admit to this isn't paying enough attention) is that it does not hit anything for weakness, and is just countered by 1 of its own type - thus you can sometimes get away with running none at all, to be safe. Of course, that works both ways - if you think no one's going to run a Dragon, then run one yourself so that you can't be hit for Weakness.

I can definitely see a couple dragons (Giratina and Rayquaza for sure, Salamence and a Garchomp possibly) being run in a few existing decks, but even cooler is the concept of all new dual-elemental decks being built around these dragons. Hey, it could happen. And we've got Rainbow and Prism Energy. Multi-elemental costs are by no means a new thing.

Oh, and what do you mean by ECHL and NHL? just curious
 
I definitely like the new Rayquaza EX, I was a fan of the Rayquaza-ex printed in Dragon, and this one is even better. A new Aron means a new Aggron too. Aggron has always been one of my favorite cards to run in the TCG, so here's to hoping it can be somewhat effective.
 
First off, this needs to be addressed:

signofzeta said:
I agree that magic is nothing like pokemon.
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...Then why do you bring it up all the time? Seriously. In almost every single post that I have seen of yours, you mention Magic.

signofzeta said:
Let's say Giratina EX dies and so does 1 grass and 1 psychic energy. I don't know about you, but if you can somehow revive Giratina EX, you can use some other cards to get energy cards from the discard pile, like super rod, or something like that.

If you can't handle multi energy cost cards, then you don't deserve to play with dragon types.

And for the person who wants to know what tutor is, maybe I'm using the wrong word, but tutor, is a card that fetches any card in the deck, so something like Harrow tutors lands.

The chances of powering a {P}{P} attack is the same as powering a {P}{G} attack. The chances of pulling a psychic energy in your deck is the same as pulling a grass energy. The only difference is that, the one with a {P}{G} attack only works in decks with psychic and grass energies, while one with {P}{P} attack works in decks with psychic energy, and any other energy, or the deck can run only on psychic energies. If you think it is hard to get a {P}{G} attack to work, then it is just as hard to get a {P}{P} attack to work. The chances of pulling any one energy card from your deck is the same. Let's say your hand has 1 psychic energy, and you have a pokemon that needs to power up a {P}{P} attack. You draw a grass energy. How is that any different from powering a {P}{G} attack and you have 1 psychic energy in hand, and you draw a psychic energy? I seriously see no difference here.
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Okay. Let's say you can revive a KO'd Giratina EX and use Super Rod for the energies. ...What does that prove? That you have to get the energies all over again? Super Rod puts cards back into your deck; Energy Retrieval, however, puts the energies back into your hand. I'm guessing you meant something like Retrieval so that the energies are back in your hand and are ready to be used again, meaning the energy cost isn't problematic anymore. But the problem is getting both energies in the first place. Let's use your example of 2 Psychics vs a Psychic and a Grass.

And let me say this first: No, the chances of pulling a Psychic energy is not the same as pulling a Grass energy. Even IF you run the same amount of each energy, you've got to account for the possibility of one (or more) of those energies being prized, how many of each type are already in play (whether some are in your hand, some are attached to Pokemon, or some are in the discard pile), AND on top of all that, there's the fact that your deck is shuffled; it's completely random. That means 2 Psychics could come before a Grass when all you needed was a Grass.

Now let's apply that to your example. Taking into concideration all of the random factors, it just might take a while to get that grass energy. (That's assuming you're only able to top deck because your hand is crap and you can't search or refresh. But even then, if you refresh, there's still a possibility that you won't get what you need.) You just might draw a Psychic when you needed a Grass. Now I'm going to assume that the Pokemon that needs 2 Psychics is in a completely different deck, free of Grass energies. And that's because if they were in the same deck with the Grass, yeah, you'd sort of be right, but that wouldn't explain why people prefer single type decks over multi energy decks. Anyway, assuming this Pokemon is in a deck only running Psychic energies, and you need that second Psychic energy, the next energy you get is Psychic. Exactly what you needed.

So to address your whole anti-multi energy tyrade, it's NOT that Pokemon players CAN'T deal with multiple energy types in a deck, it's just that it's more consistant if you run a single type of energy.

And to support this, I'll give an example of a recent deck that uses different energies: CaKE. (I think Magneboar and 6 Corners could also be examples, but I have far more experience with CaKE.) This deck uses Metal and Water energies, and it was a top tier deck. (Not sure about it nowadays.) I love this deck and it would usually perform well for me. And I say "usually" rather than "always" because this would happen every once in a while: I've got a Kyurem with a Water and a Metal on it, I just need to get another Water energy from Electrode's Energymite. Out of 7 cards, I got 2 or 3 Metal energies. (The same can be applied to Cobalion needing one more Metal and getting a bunch of Water.) That's not very consistant (and that could cost you the game). What WAS consistant (not that I'm saying this was a better deck) was when I just had Kyurem in my deck. All Water energies. Anytime I'd Energymite, I'd get Water energies, which was what I needed.

Summary:

- Chances of getting a certain energy is not a 50/50 chance.
- Chances of getting the energy you need in a single type deck is 100% guaranteed (ASSUMING you have some way to get it).
- Therefore, single energy type decks are more consistant than multi energy decks because they don't run into trouble with getting one type of energy when they really needed that other type.
- But dispite that, people DO still use decks that require multiple different energies.

I think people are having two issues with the energy costs of these Dragons. One is just that they're weird--seemingly random--energy costs, which is understandable. The other, however, is probably the fact that most of them can't be put into exsisting decks without adding the other energy type, thus losing consistancy, like I was talking about. (The exception to this would be the basics/EX's in a deck that already runs Prism/Rainbow energies.)

I could be wrong on a few points, or there might be more to add on to what I've said (I wouldn't rule it out), but this is just my understanding and my opinions.
 
Skeleton Liar said:
First off, this needs to be addressed:


...Then why do you bring it up all the time? Seriously. In almost every single post that I have seen of yours, you mention Magic.


Okay. Let's say you can revive a KO'd Giratina EX and use Super Rod for the energies. ...What does that prove? That you have to get the energies all over again? Super Rod puts cards back into your deck; Energy Retrieval, however, puts the energies back into your hand. I'm guessing you meant something like Retrieval so that the energies are back in your hand and are ready to be used again, meaning the energy cost isn't problematic anymore. But the problem is getting both energies in the first place. Let's use your example of 2 Psychics vs a Psychic and a Grass.

And let me say this first: No, the chances of pulling a Psychic energy is not the same as pulling a Grass energy. Even IF you run the same amount of each energy, you've got to account for the possibility of one (or more) of those energies being prized, how many of each type are already in play (whether some are in your hand, some are attached to Pokemon, or some are in the discard pile), AND on top of all that, there's the fact that your deck is shuffled; it's completely random. That means 2 Psychics could come before a Grass when all you needed was a Grass.

Now let's apply that to your example. Taking into concideration all of the random factors, it just might take a while to get that grass energy. (That's assuming you're only able to top deck because your hand is crap and you can't search or refresh. But even then, if you refresh, there's still a possibility that you won't get what you need.) You just might draw a Psychic when you needed a Grass. Now I'm going to assume that the Pokemon that needs 2 Psychics is in a completely different deck, free of Grass energies. And that's because if they were in the same deck with the Grass, yeah, you'd sort of be right, but that wouldn't explain why people prefer single type decks over multi energy decks. Anyway, assuming this Pokemon is in a deck only running Psychic energies, and you need that second Psychic energy, the next energy you get is Psychic. Exactly what you needed.

So to address your whole anti-multi energy tyrade, it's NOT that Pokemon players CAN'T deal with multiple energy types in a deck, it's just that it's more consistant if you run a single type of energy.

And to support this, I'll give an example of a recent deck that uses different energies: CaKE. (I think Magneboar and 6 Corners could also be examples, but I have far more experience with CaKE.) This deck uses Metal and Water energies, and it was a top tier deck. (Not sure about it nowadays.) I love this deck and it would usually perform well for me. And I say "usually" rather than "always" because this would happen every once in a while: I've got a Kyurem with a Water and a Metal on it, I just need to get another Water energy from Electrode's Energymite. Out of 7 cards, I got 2 or 3 Metal energies. (The same can be applied to Cobalion needing one more Metal and getting a bunch of Water.) That's not very consistant (and that could cost you the game). What WAS consistant (not that I'm saying this was a better deck) was when I just had Kyurem in my deck. All Water energies. Anytime I'd Energymite, I'd get Water energies, which was what I needed.

Summary:

- Chances of getting a certain energy is not a 50/50 chance.
- Chances of getting the energy you need in a single type deck is 100% guaranteed (ASSUMING you have some way to get it).
- Therefore, single energy type decks are more consistant than multi energy decks because they don't run into trouble with getting one type of energy when they really needed that other type.
- But dispite that, people DO still use decks that require multiple different energies.

I think people are having two issues with the energy costs of these Dragons. One is just that they're weird--seemingly random--energy costs, which is understandable. The other, however, is probably the fact that most of them can't be put into exsisting decks without adding the other energy type, thus losing consistancy, like I was talking about. (The exception to this would be the basics/EX's in a deck that already runs Prism/Rainbow energies.)
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So, they can't add dragon cards to their existing decks eh? So how is that any different from magic player adding multicolor cards to their existing decks? Hey, here's an idea, why not build a second deck from scratch, or just don't use that specific dragon card. I'm not forcing you to use it, but it is all this whining that dragon types should have its own symbol for attack cost because some of you couldn't handle multi energy costs. I also mentioned that they designed dragons in such a way that they work in SPECIFIC DECKS. You can't run giratina EX unless you already run Grass and Psychic, so NO DUH, that a person who runs psychic and whatever can't use Giratina EX unless they also run Grass.

The chances of pulling any specific card is 1 in how many other cards you have left in the deck. So the chances of pulling a grass could as equally be a psychic energy, assuming you have exactly the same cards. The only time you pull psychic more than grass is if you are running more psychic energies than grass energies. So like I said before, it is no different that if you are using a {P}{G}, and you already have 1 psychic in hand, and you pull a psychic, compared to a {P}{P} attack, and you pull a grass. In fact, it is more chance of pulling a grass energy when you have a psychic energy in hand, because there are more grass cards in your deck, compared to psychic cards, assuming that the energy cards don't happen to also be the prize cards. So if you run 8 grass, and 8 psychic, and you have 1 psychic in hands, there is a higher chance to pulling a grass than it is to pull a psychic, so if anything, it is easier to use a {P}{G} attack than it is to use a {P}{P} attack.

The only problem, or lack thereof, is in which decks these cards could be run in. Dragons aren't supposed to be run in a mass army, and is supposed to be a few in each person's deck.

Another thing is, like magic's multicolor cards, haven't you ever thought that maybe Dragons aren't supposed to be used in single energy decks? I'm comparing this to magic, because there are so many similarities with dragons and magic's multicolor cards, in terms to in which decks these cards work in. You can't run a wall of denial, as seen in this thread, when you are running a mono white deck. Same with Giratina EX. You can't run that guy in a mono psychic deck. It just won't work. It has to be psychic and grass.

By the way, ECHL and NHL.

Ok fine, pokemon is Soccer/Football, and Magic is Hockey, because kids play soccer, and when they grow up, they switch to american football or hockey, because apparently, magic has more skill, and more thinking, compared to this game. I know, because I play this and magic, and magic indeed has skill. This game doesn't even have cards that can be played on your opponents turn, in response to an opponent's move, so you don't even need to bluff in this game.
 
Wow there are a lot of cards in this set. However when I get more time I will look at them a little closer. From a glance they look pretty awesome though.:)
 
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