Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Keldeo EX)

[Luxiel]

This one is long, you have been warned.

UPDATE:
This is the most up-to-date list, as of Sep 2nd, 2014. In the Spoiler Tags below you can find the previous versions. I streamlined them, so now each show what changed from the list just before it. Easier to read and to follow.

Pokemon (14):

• 
  3 Squirtle [BCR] (Shell Shield)
  3 Blastoise [PLB] (Deluge)
  3 Keldeo EX [LTR / BW61] (Rush In)
  2 Black Kyurem EX [PLS] (Black Ballista)
  1 Voltorb [XY] (Destiny Burst)
  1 Electrode [PLF] (Magnetic Draw)
  1 Exeggcute [PLF] (Propagation)

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (36):

• 
  4 Professor Juniper [PLB]
  3 Skyla [BCR]
  3 N [DEX / BW100]
  2 Pokémon Fan Club [FLF]
  2 Lysandre [FLF]
  
  4 Rare Candy [PLB]
  4 Superior Energy Retrieval [PLF]
  4 Ultra Ball [FLF]
  2 Random Receiver [DEX / PLS]
  2 Professor's Letter [XY]
  2 Float Stone [PLF]
  1 Startling Megaphone [FLF]
  1 Pal Pad [FLF]
  1 Mountain Ring [FRF]
  1 Dowsing Machine [PLS] (ACE SPEC)

Energy (10):

• 
  8 Water Energy
  2 Lightning Energy

Strategy:
This is your usual Blastoise / Ballista deck with a few tools I am trying to use. I recently started playing more competitively, so I might not be fully aware of the current meta. Please note that this list is to be kept BCR-Onwards (Except for N, which falls into this for being reprinted as BW100), hence the lack of Level and Heavy Balls and the Super Rod.

We start off trying to get Blastoise out on as fast as we can. When this happens on the second turn, we have a great chace of winning. Then we proceed to kill whatever come up either with Black Ballista or Keldeo's Secret Sword. We get to snipe with Lysandre while we accelerate our energies with Superior Retrieval and cards that discard, like Ultra Ball and Dowsing Machine.

Current Thoughts:
If 2 Random Receiver prove to be too much or if I find that losing 2 [W] hurt me more than I imagined, I might try to get it back. Same goes for that N and Skyla I am missing. Lets see how this goes.

Spoiler: 3rd Update: 02-Sep-2014

Small Correction: I have been using Juniper instead of Sycamore. I though the list should reflect it. Just swapped Sycamore for Juniper, the number is the same.

For the In-Depth reasoning on these changes, read this.

-1 Squirtle [BCR] (Shell Shield)
-1 Skyla [BCR]
-1 Level Ball [NXD]
-1 Magnetic Storm [FLF]
-2 Shauna [XY]
-2 Colress [PLS]
-2 Water Energy

+1 Exeggcute [PLF] (Propagation)
+1 Pokémon Fan Club [FLF]
+1 Ultra Ball [FLF]
+1 Pal Pad [FLF]
+1 Mountain Ring [FRF]
+2 Random Receiver [DEX / PLS]
+3 N [DEX / BW100]

Spoiler: 2nd Update: 18-Aug-2014

-1 Fennekin [XY]
-1 Delphox [XY] (Mystical Fire)
-1 Exeggcute [PLF] (Propagation)

+1 Voltorb [XY] (Destiny Burst)
+1 Electrode [PLF] (Magnetic Draw)
+1 Level Ball [NXD]

Spoiler: 1st Update: 10-Aug-2014

-1 Black Kyurem EX [PLS] (Black Ballista)
-2 Voltorb [XY] (Destiny Burst)
-2 Electrode [PLF] (Magnetic Draw)
-2 N [DEX / BW100]
-1 Shauna [XY]

+1 Squirtle [BCR] (Shell Shield)
+1 Fennekin [XY]
+1 Delphox [XY] (Mystical Fire)
+1 Keldeo EX [LTR / BW61] (Rush in)
+1 Rare Candy [PLB]
+2 Colress [PLS]
+1 Magnetic Storm [FLF]

Spoiler: Original List: 05-Aug-2014

Pokemon (16):

• 
  3 Squirtle [BCR] (Shell Shield)
  3 Blastoise [PLB] (Deluge)
  2 Keldeo EX [LTR / BW61] (Rush In)
  3 Black Kyurem EX [PLS] (Black Ballista)
  2 Voltorb [XY] (Destiny Burst)
  2 Electrode [PLF] (Magnetic Draw)
  1 Exeggcute [PLF] (Propagation)

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (32):

• 
  3 Shauna [XY] / Colress [PLS]
  4 Skyla [BCR]
  3 Rare Candy [PLB]
  4 Superior Energy Retrieval [PLF]
  3 Ultra Ball [FLF]
  4 Professor Sycamore [XY]
  2 N [DEX / BW100]
  2 Professor's Letter [XY]
  2 Lysandre [FLF]
  2 Float Stone [PLF]
  1 Startling Megaphone [FLF]
  1 Pokémon Fan Club [FLF]
  1 Dowsing Machine [PLS] (ACE SPEC)

Energy (12):

• 
  10 Water Energy
  02 Lightning Energy

This is the Original List.

I said it was a long post, as I already thought of some things and now need to balance numbers out .
So I commend you for reading this far and thank you in advance for any words you may have to help me sort this out.
My main problem has been getting Blastoise out in T2. I messed with lots of variables but I can't seem to get it right. Of course, this deck has another issues (specially against VirGen and DarkYvel) and I appreciate any advice.

 

[Luxiel]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem Ex / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo)

C'mon, no one cared to lend me an opinion? :'(

Anything, please?

 

[Kecleon-X]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem Ex / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo)

Honestly, a 1-1 Electrode line for me runs beautifully. A 2-2 line is just begging for a bad start, and I already started my one-of Voltorb (I almost accidentally wrote "Voltron") on numerous occasion, though thankfully going undefeated in that tournament even through the bad starts and silly hands.

I would recommend removing the Raichu line because Black Kyurem will just OHKO anything, and if you don't want to discard the Energy, then that's what Keldeo is for. In it's place, I would put in a 1-1 line of Electrode.

I would also remove one Squirtle (you'll see why in a moment) and one Muscle Band since you're already doing 200 damage. I'd wager you don't need the extra damage that much, even though on the Keldeo it makes matchups like Empoleon and Flygon better. Though, since you're running four Superior Energy Retrieval, I would say that those matchups are already much better than they would be normally.

In their place, I would add one Pokemon Fan Club (I am of the opinion it's really good in BCR-on since Level Ball goes down the drain) and one Sycamore -- Sycamore is still an amazing card, even though you can discard some things, and it makes decks like this one that can't run Beach still consistent.

I would also add in that Egg with one of the extra cards so you can Computer Search/Dowsing Machine for Superior and not burn your hand to a crisp.

With the final extra card, I would either add in a Startling Megaphone depending on your area's Garbodor ratio, or add in a Max Potion. Max Potion in this deck is ridiculous. Say Black Kyurem is active and your opponent comes out with a Charizard EX or something and deals 170 to your Black Kyurem's face. (You also don't have a Keldeo on the bench -- this is just for instance) You could then Max Potion all the damage off, sadly discarding that Electric Energy along with the three other Water that you discarded for Black Ballista, only to have you Superior Energy Retrieval them all back, essentially putting a fresh Black Kyurem active.

Furthermore, I might take out Computer Search for Dowsing Machine given the nature of Sycamore and Superior Energy Retrieval.

Also, I might take out one Float Stone to be replaced with another Black Kyurem to make sure that you can have a good chance of starting with him.

Just some suggestions. Hope I helped!

 

[Luxiel]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo EX)

Hey, Thanks for taking your time to answer me They are indeed good considerations.

I would recommend removing the Raichu line because Black Kyurem will just OHKO anything, and if you don't want to discard the Energy, then that's what Keldeo is for. In it's place, I would put in a 1-1 line of Electrode.

I was tempted to do so, but my mind is at the Safeguarders and Pyroars that dominate the meta right now. I was looking forward to have a cheap, expendable option to kill those without putting a Blastoise upfront, vunerable to revenge killers like Yvetal. Unless I try to get 2 of them in my bench. Would that be the reasoning in this case?

I would also remove one Squirtle (...) and one Muscle Band In their place, I would add one Pokemon Fan Club (...) and one Sycamore -- Sycamore is still an amazing card, even though you can discard some things, and it makes decks like this one that can't run Beach still consistent.

Actually, I am running a Fan Club in my deck right now, though I wasn't planning to leave it there, but I agree with you, it really helps a lot in the early game. Also, another Sycamore seems reasonable, I was in doubt about this, thanks!

And yes, if the Raichu is gone, Muscle Band goes as well.

I would also add in that Egg with one of the extra cards

I was far too tempted to add it already, exactly because of the reasons you mentioned. Guess Egg is in!

With the final extra card, I would either add in a Startling Megaphone depending on your area's Garbodor ratio, or add in a Max Potion.

Garbordor isn't that common in the places I have been playing, one Megaphone worked great so far. As for the Max Potion, I considered it, just didn't put that much thought on it. Looking at it now, it seems reasonable. Gotta go after one, I guess.

I might take out Computer Search for Dowsing Machine

...As soon as USPS and the Brazilian Postal Service get mine to me.

I might take out one Float Stone to be replaced with another Black Kyurem

Yeah... I am still unsure about it for 2 reasons: First, I have 2 float stones so I can get Keldeo back floating after a Megaphone and second, Black Kyurem is an expensive card and it took me a while to get my current 2... But it makes sense to have 3 after all... I will look into this a little further.

Again, thanks for everything!

If anyone else has more tips, fell free!

 

[Luxiel]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo EX)

Here is the updated list.

Pokemon (16):

• 
  3 Squirtle [BCR] (Shell Shield)
  3 Blastoise [PLB] (Deluge)
  2 Keldeo EX [LTR / BW61] (Rush In)
  3 Black Kyurem EX [PLS] (Black Ballista)
  2 Pikachu [XY]
  2 Raichu [XY] (Circle Circuit)
  1 Exeggcute [PLF] (Propagation)

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (32):

• 
  3 Shauna [XY]
  4 Skyla [BCR]
  3 Rare Candy [PLB]
  4 Superior Energy Retrieval [PLF]
  3 Ultra Ball [FLF]
  4 Professor Sycamore [XY]
  2 N [DEX]
  2 Professor's Letter [XY]
  2 Lysandre [FLF]
  2 Float Stone [PLF]
  1 Startling Megaphone [FLF]
  1 Pokémon Fan Club [FLF]
  1 Computer Search [BCR] (ACE SPEC)

Energy (12):

• 
  10 Water Energy
  02 Lightning Energy

This list may or may not be modified with
-2 Pikachu [XY]
-2 Raichu [XY]
-1 Float Stone [PLF]
+1 Voltorb [XY]
+1 Electrode [PLF]
+1 Rare Candy [PLB]
+1 Shauna [XY] / Colress [PLS]
+1 Max Potion [PLF]

But if I do that, I would have to use Blastoise to hit Pyroars, which I rather avoid, unless I can get 2 Blastoises in the bench. There is also the possibility to add 2 lines of Electrode.
Of course, I will only hit Pyroars if I can't use / draw Lysandre, but still...

I might also skip the Shauna / Colress for another Lighting Energy...

What you people think?

 

[Luxiel]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo EX)

Here is the Final list.

Pokemon (16):

• 
  3 Squirtle [BCR] (Shell Shield)
  3 Blastoise [PLB] (Deluge)
  2 Keldeo EX [LTR / BW61] (Rush In)
  3 Black Kyurem EX [PLS] (Black Ballista)
  2 Voltorb [XY] (Destiny Burst)
  2 Electrode [PLF] (Magnetic Draw)
  1 Exeggcute [PLF] (Propagation)

Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums (32):

• 
  3 Shauna [XY] / Colress [PLS]
  4 Skyla [BCR]
  3 Rare Candy [PLB]
  4 Superior Energy Retrieval [PLF]
  3 Ultra Ball [FLF]
  4 Professor Sycamore [XY]
  2 N [DEX]
  2 Professor's Letter [XY]
  2 Lysandre [FLF]
  2 Float Stone [PLF]
  1 Startling Megaphone [FLF]
  1 Pokémon Fan Club [FLF]
  1 Dowsing Machine [PLS] (ACE SPEC)

Energy (12):

• 
  10 Water Energy
  02 Lightning Energy

I know many people saw the post but, besides Kecleon, no one cared to post ANY insight into this, so I guess I should make smaller deck posts (even though this one had a TL;DR section).
So I am posting this for those who have been following this thread and were eager to know what the final setup would become.

I decided to remove Raichu entirely and replace its line for a 2-2 Electrode line. That is because the only match-up Raichu would be useful is Pyroar and, for that, Blastoise is perfect. I will need to have 2 of them ready for those match-ups, but it can be easily done.

Also, the draw potential Electrode provides is too great to ignore. I found that running 2-2 is optimal, but if I find it is too much I might bring it down to 2-1 or 1-1 and add another Rare Candy and Shauna / Colress or, if I find useful, maybe another [L].

Speaking of them, I will playtest this final build this Saturday in a local league to find out which works better, either Shauna, Colress or a mix of both. With Electrode and that much professor cards, the balance amoung them will take some time to figure. This playtest might also show me whether 2-2 Electrode line is too much or not.

That is it. Thanks for your tips, Kecleon. Also, for those who were following this thread to see what would become of this, thank you as well.

I still accept any tips anyone might have, I'm just letting people know what I decided to go for for now.

 

[Shök]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo EX)

Awesome list. I really like the effort you put into it.

What are your thoughts on a 2-2 Delphox line?

 

[joemauer]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo EX)

Ok here are a few things that you may want to change.

I think the Keldeo and Black Kyurems need to be flip flopped. 3 Keldeos and 2 Kyurems. Kyurems and energy hungry and rarely will you ever need more than one in play.

2-2 electrode line? How has that been working for you? 1-1 has been working just fine for me.

I would maximize your Ns. Sometimes you need a new hand early on and don't want to discard some of the cards in it like Blastoise/rare candy or some number of energy retrevials. Also, N can stop you from decking yourself in the late game. This deck is also kinda slow and N can help readjust your hand accordingly before you start to pick up steam.

Another thing I would up is the number of Squirtles and Rare Candy. You don't want to have to use Skyla and/or Ultra Balls early on for these things unless you have to. Also the deck is a combo deck: Squirtle+Rare Candy+Blastoise. You want all three early on. If you have to use Ultra Balls for both pokemon then you won't have much of a hand left if any at all. And you don't want to have to use fan club if need Skyla the same turn.

One final question, how has Lysander been working for you? I never really thought to use it in this deck.

 

[Luxiel]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo EX)

Oh thanks everyone! It is nice to have some feedback!

My answers today will be based on what I experienced on this saturday play-testing this deck in a local tournament.

Awesome list. I really like the effort you put into it.

What are your thoughts on a 2-2 Delphox line?

Although it is a great draw engine, I won't feel confortable burning rare candies on it, as this deck relies too much on them, but I might try it out. Who knows if it might work even better than Electrode.

I think the Keldeo and Black Kyurems need to be flip flopped. 3 Keldeos and 2 Kyurems. Kyurems and energy hungry and rarely will you ever need more than one in play.

On my play-test this saturday, I haven't had much of a problem to get any of them. I might try to flip their count and see what happens, but in the 15 games (5 best-of-3 matches) I played, I managed to land Keldeo with Float Stone in about 90% of them, every time I really needed it, I got it without wasting too much resources.

But I concur that I will rarely need more than one kyurem on the table at a time, specially running 2 instead of 3 [L]. Might flip their counts to check how it flows.

2-2 electrode line? How has that been working for you? 1-1 has been working just fine for me.

I found it to be very helpful, but I haven't experimented with with 1-1 Electrode line, mainly because you can't chase it if one of them end up in the prizes (I found out that, later in the game, I am rarely able to burn my hand enough to use Magnetic Draw. I thought of some changes and I guess I will be lowering Electrode down to 1-1 or maybe removing it entirely.

I would maximize your Ns. Sometimes you need a new hand early on and don't want to discard some of the cards in it like Blastoise/rare candy or some number of energy retrevials. Also, N can stop you from decking yourself in the late game. This deck is also kinda slow and N can help readjust your hand accordingly before you start to pick up steam.

I will tell you that I dislike N entirely. While I might disrupt my opponents hand and get to buy 6 cards at the very beginning, I don't like to take the chance to give my opponet a better hand than he already had. Most of my cards have multiple copies and can be easily burned early without being missed later, since this deck has a lot of searches.

My current thoughts on the draw supporters currently are removing the Ns entirely and using 2 colress and 3 shaunas. But I don't know for sure how it will work. Most decks in the current meta do not even depend on a good hand, since they can all search for what they want or just work without anything. I still don't have faith that N is that good.

Another thing I would up is the number of Squirtles and Rare Candy. You don't want to have to use Skyla and/or Ultra Balls early on for these things unless you have to. Also the deck is a combo deck: Squirtle+Rare Candy+Blastoise. You want all three early on. If you have to use Ultra Balls for both pokemon then you won't have much of a hand left if any at all. And you don't want to have to use fan club if need Skyla the same turn.

Here we agreed entirely. After this tournament I played, it became clear to be that I need to run 4 squirtles and 4 rare candies. I had real problems with fast decks like Lugia EX and whenever I got a Blastoise done, he was Lynsandred and killed for 2 prizes (gotta hate Plasma Lugia - Cool and Cruel). After that, I had a hard time to get another running, which made me lose the match.

I will play around with the numbers and up those 2, maybe even the Blastoise.

One final question, how has Lysander been working for you? I never really thought to use it in this deck.

Lysandre wins matches. That is what I always say to anyone who asks me about it. Your opponent can't do ANYTHING to prevent a kill. Also, most people complain that Lysandre is a waste of supporter for a turn, but I beg to differ: Once I have a Black Kyurem or Keldeo setup and ready to attack for OHKOs, I rarely use another supporter anymore.

Most times, I burn my deck with professors and Shaunas at the begining to get a huge influx of items in my hand and lots of energies either in my pokemon or on the discard pile. After that, it is all Energy Retrieving and Dowsing Machine. I only play Lysandre if my pokemons are ready to hit and there is something really worth killing, like Aromatisee or some EX that my opponent is setting up or has retreated to protect. When that happens, I rarely have any need for another supporter in that turn.

In this deck particulary, it can do wonders. If you have a Blastoise and a Kyurem with a [L] in it, your opponent knows a ballista is coming his way, specially with a Floating Keldeo present. They tend to protect their EX and Main attackers until they are ready to either kill your Blastoise or dispose your EX. I found that people usually do this by getting a Safeguarder, Pyroar or any other disposable baby in front. Lysandre solves this. If I am ready to Ballista or if Keldeo is ready to slice something key to my opponent, Lysandre makes it hit the right spot, easily getting a kill that disrupts my opponet's momentum. When that happens, I usually have the game in my hands. Also, when both are down to 2 or 1 prizes, whoever plays Lysandre first wins the match, as both will be protecting their attackers and trying not the get killed.

Lysandre is unfair and imbalanced. Much of this cardgame is (hence why the meta is so small and obvious). Plasma combos are ridiculousy strong and fast and you most often than not, can't do squat do stop them.

Now some observations I have to make about my play-testing:

1. Pyroar wasn't a problem at all: I found out that most decks that are running Pyroar are all about Charizard or some other fire attacker. Instead of dropping Kyurems on the table, I focused my resources into getting 2 blastoises running and getting my Floating Keldeo up. After that, Pyroar-based decks usually get destroyed with no sweat. So, Raichu isn't coming back, for it is too unreliable with this deck.

2. Frozen City kills this deck entirely: Every time a Frozen City lands in the field, my deck instantly loses. KingNinja and Lugia played this against me and they breezed through my pokemon. I will get a stadium in ASAP. When Furious Fist arrives, Mountain Ring will be my choice. Before that, I am not sure which to pick and I'm accepting suggestions.

3. I need to get used to this deck: I know this is obvious and basic, but I need to get more experienced with this deck and learn how to use its mechanics better. For example, I rarely commit myself to setup 2 blastoises. After playing this saturday, I found that to be a mistake and to try to get 2 blastoises most of the times, just in case one of them gets sniped.

I would like to thank everyone for the feedback sent, keep it coming!

 

[Luxiel]

People, taken from my final list (here), I was thinking about applying one of the following changes:

1)
- 1-1 Electrode Line
+ 1 Rare Candy
+ 1 Magnetic Storm (And then swap for Mountain Ring once Furious Fist is out)

2)
- 1-1 Electrode Line
- 1 Pokemon Fan Club OR - 1 N OR - 1 Float Stone
+ 1 Rare Candy
+ 1 Squirtle
+ 1 Magnetic Storm (and probably swap it for Mountain Ring once Furious Fist is out.)

Also, I was thinking about swapping the remaining 1-1 Electrode Line for a 1-0-1 Delphox Line as Shök suggested, just to see how it would work out. It is not like Rare Candies wouldn't be abundant. Magnetic Storm is there mainly to counter Frozen City without giving my opponent any advantage.

Actually, Magnetic Storm might do something good against VirGen, so Keldeo gets to hit for full of its power when the opponent has lost the Water Resist. It could maybe be even better than Mountain Ring, since VirGen is a much more common match-up than bench attackers.

What do you guys think about it?

EDIT: Committed the current decklist to the first post, along with the current thoughts.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo EX)

I know many people saw the post but, besides Kecleon, no one cared to post ANY insight into this,

Lots of players may choose not to respond for several reasons, including for example:

• After review, a player may not have any additional, POSITIVE comments to offer since he/she may feel it is already a very good list; and/or
• Player may not have sufficient experience in playing with and/or against the deck to provide any meaningful feedback.

At least 2 counter Stadiums?

Nice final list too. I am also glad to see that Blastoise has not gone away as some folks think.

 

[Luxiel]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo EX)

I know many people saw the post but, besides Kecleon, no one cared to post ANY insight into this,

Lots of players may choose not to respond for several reasons, including for example:

• After review, a player may not have any additional, POSITIVE comments to offer since he/she may feel it is already a very good list; and/or
• Player may not have sufficient experience in playing with and/or against the deck to provide any meaningful feedback.

At least 2 counter Stadiums?

Nice final list too. I am also glad to see that Blastoise has not gone away as some folks think.

Yeah, sorry about that. I realized your point some time ago. I was just sad no one took time to give some answer. I really want this to work as a tournament winning deck so bad that I forgot to think about that point. I apologize.

About your suggestion, I thought about running 2 stadiums but I guess they might be overkill.

As you can see, the list in tight enough that I am willing to sacrifice raw draw power to cover some bases. I think 1 stadium might do it because of the 4 Skylas and the Dowsing Machine that this deck is running.

You see, I really don't have problems with other Stadiums apart from Frozen City. I learned that no deck runs more than 2 of those, since the decks that can run it without being hindered need the space for items and Big Basics (Lugia/Deoxys/Thundurus) or Stage 2 (eg.: KingNinja, Milktank decks).

Other than Frozen City, no other Stadium (up to FLF) has given me a disadvantage that I couldn't overcome. Not sure how this deck will respond to the new meta ones that will arrise with FF though. I myself fear Seismitoad more than any new Stadium.

Also, LONG LIVE DELUGE BLASTOISE!!

I really wanted the Wash-Out Blastoise [HGSS] to be legal also, since his ability is interresting and always surprises the opponent. His attack is great as well. Kinda like the one from the new Blaziken, but better IMHO.

But, yeah, at least for another year, Deluge Blastoise will keep on rocking!

Thanks for your answer!

 

[joemauer]

Frozen City is an auto loss for this deck, I have noticed this too. With the Skylas, a one of counter stadium may be the way to go.

I would take out a one of Float Stone or Fan Club to make the other cards fit. The deck is just so tight that it is tough to take any cards out.

 

[Luxiel]

Frozen City is an auto loss for this deck, I have noticed this too. With the Skylas, a one of counter stadium may be the way to go.

I would take out a one of Float Stone or Fan Club to make the other cards fit. The deck is just so tight that it is tough to take any cards out.

Yeah, I will probably go for the Float Stone... I found it laying around more often than not and Fan Club had some nice uses.

And yes, I have been struggling on and on about what to change in order to fit everything. The current cards lock together too well, it has been hard to fine tune this. But that is why I am sharing this with you guys after all!

I have a few cards coming from the US this week (I live in Brazil). Once they arrive, I will go through the deck once more and apply some of the changes I discribed above, maybe even test the Delphox and update this one.

 

[Shök]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo EX)

Although it is a great draw engine, I won't feel confortable burning rare candies on it, as this deck relies too much on them, but I might try it out. Who knows if it might work even better than Electrode.

Well, once you setup the 1 or 2 Blastoise, you usually end up throwing away the rest of the Rare Candies. Instead of throwing them away, you can burn them for a better draw engine. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Luxiel]

RE: Ballistoise (Black Kyurem EX / Blastoise / Raichu / Keldeo EX)

Although it is a great draw engine, I won't feel confortable burning rare candies on it, as this deck relies too much on them, but I might try it out. Who knows if it might work even better than Electrode.

Well, once you setup the 1 or 2 Blastoise, you usually end up throwing away the rest of the Rare Candies. Instead of throwing them away, you can burn them for a better draw engine. Just my 2 cents.

I know, the catch is, it is easier to get an Electrode to evolve a Voltorb on bench, even before the first Blastoise, since I don't need a Rare Candy for it. It is faster and don't conflict with other priority.

But I will test this Delphox thing on this Saturday and let you know how it goes

 

[Luxiel]

Hola amigos!

So, I am writing this after a local small competition. This time I achieved 6th from 14. Not bad at all!

I played the current (as of Aug 10th, 2014) version of my deck, that you will find on the first post. I embraced the following suggestions:
- 2-2 Electrode Line
- 1 Black Kyurem EX
- 2 N (this was my own suggestion to myself)
- 1 Shauna
+ 1 Squirtle
+ 1 Keldeo EX
+ 1-0-1 Delphox Line
+ 2 Colress
+ 1 Rare Candy
+ 1 Magnetic Storm

First of all, let me say that Delphox is an amazing draw engine, but it is too costy to get running. Usually I would be conflicted whether to get it on the bench or a Blastoise. The times I did get it on were great, but I fell that Electrode is more trustful and faster. Tell me what you guys think, I will probably go back to Electrode. Or I might start focusing on getting Delphox on Turn 2 since it will help a lot to get a Blastoise on. Which way should I go?

Second, I tried with Colress and didn't liked the results, so I was thinking about reverting them back to Ns or just go Full Shauna in this. Given I dislike N very much, I am inclined for the later. Any tips on this decision?

And finally, I swapped the Keldeo and Black Kyurem counts. This change worked way better than I anticipated. I will keep it this way. There were never a time where I missed a Black Kyurem and Keldeo flowed great.

The increased Squirtle and Rare Candy numbers worked great too, I will keep it that way.

That is what I have to say about this weekend. Please, take your time to comment what you think of it and what can I change.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Congrats on your recent 6th place finish - very nice accomplishment from your previous 14th place finish.

First of all, let me say that Delphox is an amazing draw engine, but it is too costy to get running. Usually I would be conflicted whether to get it on the bench or a Blastoise. The times I did get it on were great, but I fell that Electrode is more trustful and faster. Tell me what you guys think, I will probably go back to Electrode. Or I might start focusing on getting Delphox on Turn 2 since it will help a lot to get a Blastoise on. Which way should I go?

I definitely think an Electrode line is far more effective than a Delphox line: reduces impact on critical resources like Rare Candy, easier to setup, etc.

Second, I tried with Colress and didn't liked the results, so I was thinking about reverting them back to Ns or just go Full Shauna in this. Given I dislike N very much, I am inclined for the later. Any tips on this decision?

Considering that you have incorporated a Poke-draw engine like Electrode, I'd definitely suggest you run 4 N. In doing so, you can N your opponent to a few cards in your opponent's hand, but then you can potentially draw more cards via Electode. Maybe just 1 Colress or Battle Reporter then? It is still nice to be able to draw lots of cards.

 

[Luxiel]

Considering that you have incorporated a Poke-draw engine like Electrode, I'd definitely suggest you run 4 N. In doing so, you can N your opponent to a few cards in your opponent's hand, but then you can potentially draw more cards via Electode. Maybe just 1 Colress or Battle Reporter then? It is still nice to be able to draw lots of cards.

Hummm seems reasonable, but I am not that sure that I will have Electrode out in all my matches so I can combo N + Electrode... Or should I focus on getting it done?

Another suggestion a friend of mine gave to me was to squeeze in a Jirachi EX, so I can play it on an emergency or when I much need a Lysandre or Skyla. Guess it could work?

 

[TuxedoBlack]

Considering that you have incorporated a Poke-draw engine like Electrode, I'd definitely suggest you run 4 N. In doing so, you can N your opponent to a few cards in your opponent's hand, but then you can potentially draw more cards via Electode. Maybe just 1 Colress or Battle Reporter then? It is still nice to be able to draw lots of cards.

Hummm seems reasonable, but I am not that sure that I will have Electrode out in all my matches so I can combo N + Electrode... Or should I focus on getting it done?

From my experience, it seems you got to do whatever it takes to get a T2 Blastoise into play. It is now more critical than ever since you don't have Tropical Beach. I'd suggest you play-test both options and see which option can most effectively allow you to achieve your objectives more consistently.

Another suggestion a friend of mine gave to me was to squeeze in a Jirachi EX, so I can play it on an emergency or when I much need a Lysandre or Skyla. Guess it could work?

Lots of players do run Jirachi EX for that reason too. You might even be able to incorporate 1-2 Super Scoop Up too to rescue wounded Poké and/or reuse your Jirachi EX.