BCIF & BDIF?

Number one should be Blazeray. Speedrill should be second, while Gengar varients should replace speedrill. Dialga lock should be in third with Flygon. My $0.2.
 
Mr. Random said:
Number one should be Blazeray.
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Not really, there are so many counters for that deck. There's more counters for that deck than Flygon.

With the right version, it could be a good deck.
 
Also Mr.Random I said that list was for DP-RR, and also no IMO Blazeray is also overhyped.
I love that Mankey so much....
 
Well in that case, here's what I think the list should be (DP-RR):

1.Gengar varients
1.Luxape
2.Speedrill
2.Legos
2.Flygon varients
3.Dialga lock
 
Blazeray will NOT be the BDIF. We all know Luxray is a solid card (read my earlier post about him) but Blaziken is iffy, especially if they have free retreat methods. (Such as Weavile and Moonlight Stadium in Flygon/Electivire FB/other Colorless decks, or even Warp Point or Switch in 90% of all decks) Really, you are not going to hit for more than 80 most of the time, and that 80 comes with a downfall. Sure, that attack is good early game, but if they have a back-up attacker, bye-bye Blaze. Even Luxray and Absol can KO it, and those cards are not amazing attackers. (They have a solid damage ratio, but they aren't quite good enough to be attacking) If you can't burn, you are stuck dealing 30 (or in some cases 60, but Blaziken shouldn't even be attacking when going up against water decks) or 80 and then having Blaze put in an OHKO range.

Blaziken's main downfall is that it doesn't have a reliable attack. The Burn usually won't stick, Vapor Kick isn't anything to worry about unless you have the Burn, and Jet Shoot won't OHKO most attackers (again, without the Burn) while Blaziken just dies during your opponent's turn. Unown G makes sure you can't burn the Claydol/anything that can't be easily retreated. (Though Luxray GL X is a good answer to that)

The bottom line is that Blazeray lacks the solid damage output and fizzles out to any deck with a way that can free retreat at several points in the game, either through low retreat costs or Moonlight/Weavile. These glaring weaknesses will keep it from being BDIF. It may do decent at BRs, but it won't dominate.
 
In my opinion, the BCIF should be the most commonly used card, such as a supporter or trainer. My theory will probably lead to the BCIF being something like Rosie's or Bebe's.
For the BDIF... its incredibly hard to say, like previously mentioned a kajillion times, every deck has a counter, if i threw in a vote though i'd say LuxApe due to personal experiences.
But we're all different right?
 
I think all you people saying decks with SV cards in them are BDIF are going to be upset when things really happen. We haven't even seen the meta (with the exception with a bit of japanese play) with them.

I personally think Flygon Varients are the BDIF right now, one because they placed 2nd and 3rd in Masters, and 2nd (and 3rd I believe, not sure) in Seniors. No they did not win, but shouldn't a BDIF be consistently placing very high, not just one person winning with it? (Raybees)
 
Blue Thunder said:
Blazeray will NOT be the BDIF. We all know Luxray is a solid card (read my earlier post about him) but Blaziken is iffy, especially if they have free retreat methods. (Such as Weavile and Moonlight Stadium in Flygon/Electivire FB/other Colorless decks, or even Warp Point or Switch in 90% of all decks) Really, you are not going to hit for more than 80 most of the time, and that 80 comes with a downfall. Sure, that attack is good early game, but if they have a back-up attacker, bye-bye Blaze. Even Luxray and Absol can KO it, and those cards are not amazing attackers. (They have a solid damage ratio, but they aren't quite good enough to be attacking) If you can't burn, you are stuck dealing 30 (or in some cases 60, but Blaziken shouldn't even be attacking when going up against water decks) or 80 and then having Blaze put in an OHKO range.

Blaziken's main downfall is that it doesn't have a reliable attack. The Burn usually won't stick, Vapor Kick isn't anything to worry about unless you have the Burn, and Jet Shoot won't OHKO most attackers (again, without the Burn) while Blaziken just dies during your opponent's turn. Unown G makes sure you can't burn the Claydol/anything that can't be easily retreated. (Though Luxray GL X is a good answer to that)

The bottom line is that Blazeray lacks the solid damage output and fizzles out to any deck with a way that can free retreat at several points in the game, either through low retreat costs or Moonlight/Weavile. These glaring weaknesses will keep it from being BDIF. It may do decent at BRs, but it won't dominate.
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i disagree with you on so many levels.
since when is 80 for 1 energy bad. sure burn can be unreliable but there not always going to have warp point.or they have to waste an energy to retreat.
how many decks are actually using moonlight this format?
my garchomp will eat weavile/flygon for breakfast.
there damage out put is amazing with such a low and easily attained cost.
luxray gl balances out the fact that your risking blaziken dying on the next turn. but most of the time after a luring flame a vapor kick can get the ohko(with the lv.x in play).power spray lols at uxie engine.
garchomp makes gengar an almost easymatch up fo me.
 
Yes, I understand, I would more if said which Garchomp you are using.
Also on the Blazeray subjuct, I just don't like it and the concept is just not good enough for me.
 
Here's my opinion on whats bcif and bdif

BCIF: Luxray GL Lv.x

BDIF:

1.Blazeray, Legos
2.Gengar varients,Luxape
3.Speedrill, Flygon varients
 
trevorispro said:
I disagree with you on so many levels.
since when is 80 for 1 energy bad. sure burn can be unreliable but there not always going to have warp point.or they have to waste an energy to retreat.
how many decks are actually using moonlight this format?
my garchomp will eat weavile/flygon for breakfast.
there damage out put is amazing with such a low and easily attained cost.
luxray gl balances out the fact that your risking blaziken dying on the next turn. but most of the time after a luring flame a vapor kick can get the ohko(with the lv.x in play).power spray lols at uxie engine.
garchomp makes gengar an almost easymatch up fo me.
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80 for 1 isn't bad, but then you have a virtual 70HP next turn, it isn't all that great. It is true they won't be able to retreat out of it, but Luring Flame doesn't hurt that much until the next turn. And anytime they DO have a WP/Switch, you are set back one turn attacking-wise. If they set you back a turn with retreating, it isn't really a waste. While you likely can't do that all the time, the couple times they do retreat could come back at you. 2 WP + 2 retreats = 4 lost turns on attacking, with only the possible minor burn damage.

Moonlight isn't commonly run, I'll give you that one. However, if you do encounter it, Luring Flame isn't a viable option.

We aren't talking about Garchomp. This is a Blazeray argument, not one about Garchomp, so thus I don't care about it.

The damage ratio is high, but Blaziken is easily OHKO'd if you use Jet Shoot, which will often be your method of killing main attackers. Burn + Vapor Kick = 70, and then a possible 3 turns of Burn allows for a MAX 130 damage. If the Pokemon has 80 or more HP, there is a chance you won't KO:

80 -90 HP: 87.5% chance of KO. This is good, but you will still miss the KO once-in-a-while....which isn't so good.
100-110 HP: 50% chance of KO. This a LOT riskier than the 80-90 range.
120-130 HP: 12.5% chance to KO.....no odds I favor.

Conclusion? Luring Flame and Vapor Kick won't always get the job done....which leaves you Jet Shoot, and I already talked about it.

Luxray GL isn't that amazing of an attacker against non-Water decks, so it's not that good of a backup to Blaziken after you Jet Shoot and KO Blaziken.

Again, I don't care about Garchomp...I was talking about how Blazeray is not BDIF, not if Garchomp is good or not.
 
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