Best Deck Post-DE (CMT, Zek, Dark?)

I‘m not going to get into the discussion about what the BDIF is, I just want to explain to you guys why Tornadus EX doesn‘t make Terrakion decks any less playable.

Terrakion is not very fast. You set up your main attacker on turn three, and start attacking. Usually, you‘re exchanging 2HKO‘s, take some easy prizes off Catcher, and try to deny your opponent those easy KOs. That means you usually need two attacks per prize taken. Against Tornadus EX, you attack thrice for two prizes if everything goes as planned. Eviolite makes that four attacks for two prizes, the same rate as any non-EX pokemon.

Of course, if you can get your Tornadus EX charged on turn two, the Terrakion player will struggle to keep up. However, the same goes for any other attacker capable of dealing 130+ damage in two turns while not getting OHKOd by Terrakion (just trading OHKOs is fine too). That‘s a tall order, but far from impossible in the current meta.

In short: Tornadus EX is another threat to mono-fighting decks, and one to be taken very seriously, but not more so than any other fast attacker.
 
alexmf2 said:
You don't "hope" to win. If your deck is good enough to win, it will win. It shouldn't matter in the slightest how many players you face using the same deck.
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The CMT vs. Zekeels matchup only gets so good. If you only have a decent matchup against Zekeels, which is the best you will get to, you will lose to some of the Zekeels because there are so many.
 
iisnumber12 said:
The CMT vs. Zekeels matchup only gets so good. If you only have a decent matchup against Zekeels, which is the best you will get to, you will lose to some of the Zekeels because there are so many.
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Exactly. So as ZekEels beats CMT more often than the vice versa, it is better than CMT. And unless you have any other contenders, this means that ZekEels was BDIF.
 
alexmf2 said:
Exactly. So as ZekEels beats CMT more often than the vice versa, it is better than CMT. And unless you have any other contenders, this means that ZekEels was BDIF.
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But CMT does much better against Terrakion than Zekeels does. So that makes CMT tied for BDIF
 
iisnumber12 said:
But CMT does much better against Terrakion than Zekeels does. So that makes CMT tied for BDIF
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Except that ZekEels can also beat Terrakion. And ZekEels has proof that it is BDIF. So it is BDIF.
 
alexmf2 said:
Except that ZekEels can also beat Terrakion. And ZekEels has proof that it is BDIF. So it is BDIF.
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It's proof is a 12 year old on pokebeach. Sure.

CMT has a much better chance of beating Terrakion though.

Exactly v
 
iisnumber12 said:
It's proof is a 12 year old on pokebeach. Sure.

CMT has a much better chance of beating Terrakion though.

Exactly v
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It's proof is 7 out of 8 Regional wins...

Does CMT have that kind of proof?

@TPZ, if you play it correctly, ZekEels is about even Terrakion.

Edit: Also, why do you think ZekEels is more popular than CMT? The only reason more people would play ZekEels over CMT would be that it is better.
 
alexmf2 said:
It's proof is 7 out of 8 Regional wins...

Does CMT have that kind of proof?

@TPZ, if you play it correctly, ZekEels is about even Terrakion.

Edit: Also, why do you think ZekEels is more popular than CMT? The only reason more people would play ZekEels over CMT would be that it is better.
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Because less people play Terrakion. Also, 7 wins isn't proof because it was jusgt more played. It is EVEN for BDIF. More people choose to play it which is why it wins more. If you tested all of CMTs and Zekeels matchups equally, CMT would probably win.
 
iisnumber12 said:
Because less people play Terrakion. Also, 7 wins isn't proof because it was jusgt more played. It is EVEN for BDIF. More people choose to play it which is why it wins more. If you tested all of CMTs and Zekeels matchups equally, CMT would probably win.
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So why don't more people play Terrakion? By your train of thought, if a bunch of people play Terrakion, they'll win. But that's just not true. Terrakion has bad matchups all around, it has a bad CMT matchup and the ZekEels matchup is no more than 50-50.

I asked, why do more people choose to play it? If they were exactly as good as each other, than the amount of people playing both CMT and ZekEels should be about even. But for some strange reason, more people play ZekEels.
 
alexmf2 said:
So why don't more people play Terrakion? By your train of thought, if a bunch of people play Terrakion, they'll win. But that's just not true. Terrakion has bad matchups all around, it has a bad CMT matchup and the ZekEels matchup is no more than 50-50.

I asked, why do more people choose to play it? If they were exactly as good as each other, than the amount of people playing both CMT and ZekEels should be about even. But for some strange reason, more people play ZekEels.
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Most people probably don't play Terrakion because they don't feel like it. It requires a lot of testing and is a great play if you know what you're doing.
 
I like this format because imo it seems very skill based and less matchup based. I'd say that among the top three (Tetrakion, CMT, ZekEels) all of the matchups are roughly 60-40 except for mirror matches (duh) and there are plenty of techs to give you more options if you think you can fit them in, which adds more skill to deck building since its not always just consistency. Personally while I believe that ZekEels is the BDIF its still a very balanced format and you should probably play whatever deck fits you the best. I'm not really sure how Dark Explorer's release will change things. Obviously it will add Darkrai and Zoroark to the format but both have yet to prove themselves so I don't want to assume anything, and while CMT and ZekEels do get Tornadus EX and Raikou EX respectively they aren't really huge changes to the deck.
 
iisnumber12 said:
Most people probably don't play Terrakion because they don't feel like it. It requires a lot of testing and is a great play if you know what you're doing.
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"They don't feel like it."

According to your logic of Terrakion now being the BDIF, that's like saying nobody would play LuxChomp last year because "they didn't feel like it."

And again, I'll repeat my argument which you still haven't responded to: It only takes one to win a tournament. Like EliGagerNorris said, look at The Truth. And that was at Worlds, which is quite a lot more competitive than Regionals.
 
Eels is fundmanetally a better deck than CMT is IMO. It accelerates from the discard pile, which makes it 1-2 turns slower but also more consistent. It can utilize N much better then CMT and deals with an opponent's N better as well, since you can totally play off your field without needing a Supporter. It also has a wider range of cards it can use to attack. This paired with it's good matchup against CMT and winnable matchup against Terrakion makes it a very favorable play, and in my opinion the single BDIF.
 
Number12, you are kind of grasping at straws here. Zekeels beats CMT and honestly has a close to 50-50 against Tetrakion, Tornadus EX making the match-up better. It also has a pretty decent match-up against Durant, something that CMT doesn't. Zekeels won 7/8 Regionals, the 2nd biggest tournament in the US.
 
In reply to the 3 above posts:

What I'm saying is that Zekeels cannot be called BDIF. I don't really think that CMT is as good as it, but Zekeels cannot be considered the BDIF. Just because it wins the most does not mean it is the only deck that wins. CMT, Terrakion, and Secret decks are just as good plays. You also can't keep using the regionals example. Those people who won regionals are good, but they are themselves and you are you. Though this sounds corny, it is true. The BDIF last regonals was either Gothitelle or Reshiphlosion. Then, the one person who played Magneboar ended up winning because it was a good play, but still wasn't BDIF.
 
You just admitted that CMT is not as good as ZekEels. Therefore, as CMT and ZekEels are really the only decks competing for the top place, ZekEels is BDIF.

You won once. That is not a majority. ZekEels won 7 times. That is a 100% majority, as the other deck that won was Durant. I'm not arguing for me, I'm arguing for the world.
 
alexmf2 said:
You just admitted that CMT is not as good as ZekEels. Therefore, as CMT and ZekEels are really the only decks competing for the top place, ZekEels is BDIF.

You won once. That is not a majority. ZekEels won 7 times. That is a 100% majority, as the other deck that won was Durant. I'm not arguing for me, I'm arguing for the world.
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What I'm saying is Zekeels is not always the best play. Also, it does better in big tournaments than in small tournaments, so regionals is much different than BR.
 
alexmf2 said:
The size of the tournament should not matter how good a deck is.
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It does. The Truth is better in smaller tournaments because you have a low chance of playing against a secret deck or a counter deck. Big tournaments, everything needs to be watched out for.
 
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