Discussion Cards Rotating Out

2

21times

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Hey there Beach Bums!

OK - so it's occurring to me recently that there are some trainers, supporters, and item cards that are potentially rotating out of standard in about 8 months.

Now, I don't want to freak anybody out with this list - I think there are going to be 2 sets released between now and worlds, and we all know that probably A LOT of these cards will be reprinted. I just want to make a list now because that's the way my brain works.

I am also assuming that everything Breakthrough on will remain in standard (Primal Clash, Ancient Origins, Roaring Skies, and Double Crisis being rotated). That's the assumption I'm making for this list. If you don't think that's what's going to happen, peace, no problem. This just seems logical to me, and I've got to draw the line somewhere.

These are the major trainers, items, and supporters that, as of right now, would be rotated out of standard:

Dive Ball
Eco Arm
Escape Rope
Forest of Giant Plants
Hex Maniac
Level Ball
Lysandre
Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick
Mega Turbo
Professor Birch's Observations
Rough Seas
Shrine of Memories
Sky Field
Teammates
Trainers' Mail
VS Seeker

If you see any errors in this list, please feel free to point them out. If you see anything I might have missed, by all means let me know. This is not a comprehensive list, these are just cards I frequently use that I don't think have been reprinted in a set that will be standard legal after the next rotation.

Thanks in advance for your comments, suggestions, and thoughts.
 
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Energy recycler is returning in the "Sun & Moon Strengthening Pack", which will be called "Guardians Rising" outside Japan...

^ Sorry, but I'm afraid the list must be edited...

...or else I will be confused, as will other readers that may be interested in the rotation-guessing game in which is pure speculation that may or may not be revealed a s true later... Which is why I'd rather be glad to get that off my chest before I go overboard with unnecessary rumor-spreading that I don't want any part of...

^ Sure, it's nice to post your take, but I'd treat it like a grain of salt until July/August, when the announcement that states the sets that will be rotated for next P!P season is posted officially, if I were you...
 
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Everything roaring skies won't be rotated out till 2018 so we still have at least a year and a half that cards will still be standard. The only set that will not be standard anymore is primal clash. We still will have everything roaring skies and ancient origins.
 
Nemesis1125 said:
Everything roaring skies won't be rotated out till 2018 so we still have at least a year and a half that cards will still be standard. The only set that will not be standard anymore is primal clash. We still will have everything roaring skies and ancient origins.
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Roaring Skies is rotating. The second print run doesn't mean it will be around longer. It just means you can buy it again.
 
Are you saying that Roaring Skies is going to make the standard cut for a 4th year? I think most sets usually get 2 rotations and maybe 3 if the timing is right. If anyone disagrees with either of us, feel free to jump in.
 
I personally think the rotation will be Evolutions-On because of how different Sun and Moon is from BW/XY. The cards are designed differently, we don't have a discard, draw seven effect and if they are trying to phase it out, they have to rotate Steam Siege. With Expanded now being a thing, they can make a harsh cut in standard (lets face it, most of these decks shouldn't even exist) and run more expanded events while Standard has the reset its needed for the last four years. Standard will also have three or four Sun/Moon, not including any mini sets that might be released.
 
I think it will be BKT on because they usually rotate a year worth of sets, meaning in addition we'll lose:
Super Rod
Heavy Ball
Heavy Boots
B-BR
Judge
Brigette
Parallel City
Letter
Map
 
Thanks jammer I knew there was probably something on that list that shouldn't be. I've made the revision.

And YES this is complete and total SPECULATION. Guessing game is the perfect phrase. Nobody knows right now exactly what sets are going to rotate. I think most people are assuming that, if things are consistent with past history, that anywhere from 3-5 sets will be removed, and that they're not going to jump over sets (i.e. keep Roaring Skies but drop Breakthrough). Also, since Breakthrough and Breakpoint are basically tied together, it's doubtful they'll remove one and not the other. Finally, it's doubtful that they'll rotate sets that are less than 2 years old to avoid incurring the wrath of the customers who spent a significant amount of money on cards and got less than 2 seasons worth of value out of them.

But Crystal, as always, you make an excellent point. Sun and Moon is significantly different in style and character of play. It would seem to be a logical break, but, again, how mad would players be when literally hundreds (thousands?) of dollars they spent on cards in the last year or two go down the drain? It's going to be tough enough on them that Shaymin is getting rotated out - how many people might stop playing because most of their collection is no longer legal? If faced with the choice of expanded or go find something else, how many are going to leave the game?
 
21times said:
Thanks jammer I knew there was probably something on that list that shouldn't be. I've made the revision.

And YES this is complete and total SPECULATION. Guessing game is the perfect phrase. Nobody knows right now exactly what sets are going to rotate. I think most people are assuming that, if things are consistent with past history, that anywhere from 3-5 sets will be removed, and that they're not going to jump over sets (i.e. keep Roaring Skies but drop Breakthrough). Also, since Breakthrough and Breakpoint are basically tied together, it's doubtful they'll remove one and not the other. Finally, it's doubtful that they'll rotate sets that are less than 2 years old to avoid incurring the wrath of the customers who spent a significant amount of money on cards and got less than 2 seasons worth of value out of them.

But Crystal, as always, you make an excellent point. Sun and Moon is significantly different in style and character of play. It would seem to be a logical break, but, again, how mad would players be when literally hundreds (thousands?) of dollars they spent on cards in the last year or two go down the drain? It's going to be tough enough on them that Shaymin is getting rotated out - how many people might stop playing because most of their collection is no longer legal? If faced with the choice of expanded or go find something else, how many are going to leave the game?
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How are BP and BT tied together? Is it just because of the name if so, sorry but that's a terrible argument
 
From the standpoint of what we have now, we have these blocks;

(Ancient Trait)

Primal Clash
Double Crisis (.5 set)
Roaring Skies
Ancient Origins

Ancient Mechanic Abandon

(BREAK)

BREAKthrough
BREAKpoint

Generations (.5 set)

(Movie Tie in)

Fates Collide
Steam Siege

(Reprint Set)

Evolutions

Sun and Moon

Break Mechanic Abandon
Mega Mechanic Abandon?

The game normally rotates to the reprint set (which Eviolutions is) or goes right to the base set of the new block but looking at how the cards are designed now, I can't see them leaving decks like Rainbow Road, Greninja BREAK and Volcanion in the format, which are counter productive to what Sun and Moon is trying to be. Also the lack of a Lysandre reprint in favor of Pokemon Catch reprint and a handful of other cards is telling. A discard draw seven effect has been in the game for the last 5 or six years. Roaring Skies did change how decks are build but it seems they are slowing the game down and if they leave in cards like Sycamore in the game, how decks are designed won't change, which is what Standard aims to do.

21times said:
Thanks jammer I knew there was probably something on that list that shouldn't be. I've made the revision.

And YES this is complete and total SPECULATION. Guessing game is the perfect phrase. Nobody knows right now exactly what sets are going to rotate. I think most people are assuming that, if things are consistent with past history, that anywhere from 3-5 sets will be removed, and that they're not going to jump over sets (i.e. keep Roaring Skies but drop Breakthrough). Also, since Breakthrough and Breakpoint are basically tied together, it's doubtful they'll remove one and not the other. Finally, it's doubtful that they'll rotate sets that are less than 2 years old to avoid incurring the wrath of the customers who spent a significant amount of money on cards and got less than 2 seasons worth of value out of them.

But Crystal, as always, you make an excellent point. Sun and Moon is significantly different in style and character of play. It would seem to be a logical break, but, again, how mad would players be when literally hundreds (thousands?) of dollars they spent on cards in the last year or two go down the drain? It's going to be tough enough on them that Shaymin is getting rotated out - how many people might stop playing because most of their collection is no longer legal? If faced with the choice of expanded or go find something else, how many are going to leave the game?
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It all depends. Money should never be the controlling factor over the health of the format and if people want to quit because the game is trying to get better, then they should go play Yugioh or something - and this isn't something I like saying because I want the game to grow and get better.

Before any rotation happens, we should have 3 to 4 sets (not including mini sets) in addition to whatever they rotate to. I just feel if they keep XY sets around in a SM format, it could affect how they design SM cards.

As a side note, just rotating Roaring Skies will change how decks are made and that will slow the game but I do think rotation is going to be somewhat deep.
 
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I completely agree...I feel there is something big in the works for the next rotation come August.

1. Just looking at the new cards that are in SM1 and how the style of play appears to be more geared towards being slower (lots of stage 2 decks).

2. There is no indication of the "speedier" Trainers, i.e. Sycamore, being reprinted. (but it could!)

3. Consistency cards like Shaymin most likely being rotated out.

I feel something is going to change, for the health of the game.

It may make a lot of people upset that have invested their hard earned $$ into cards, but have a look at the changes made to the Championship Series structure this year and they way trainers earn CP Points...I think that made a lot of people upset too, especially us up here in western Canada!! But Pokémon will do, what Pokémon is going to do! We may not like it at first, but we will get used to it!

Just my $0.02!
 
I agree with most of what @crystal_pidgeot has said. The mechanics in the new set are just too different, and not rotating most of the XY-era cards will result in another year of a stale, largely unchanged game as the new cards are designed to be a slower, more conservative approach to the game.

That said, I think we'll see the following formats:

Standard: Evolutions-On
Expanded: XY-On (it's time to let those BW cards go)
 
You hit the major ones for sure. I for one am glad for giant plant forest's rotation (coupled with plume), even if it makes it harder to play certain grass decks it means no turn 1 item lock which I think is overall a bad player experience. I personally didnt play in the catcher format, but in general I really dislike catcher as a card. The fact that it can be so powerful on a flip, makes things so much more possible for poor personal rng to strike. The loss of mega turbo also hurts the remaining mega decks in rotation and slows them down. Frankly I think this is a good thing as while things like Mega Mewtwo or Mega Gardevoir are definitely beatable, they feel currently too autopilot and causing everything to slow down should allow room for more plays and counterplays

These are all HUGE changes - just from rotating 3 sets, not even talking about pokemon. Itll be a completely different format as a result and really I would put 90%+ odds of primal clash, roaring skies, and ancient origins being the only main sets to rotate
 
A format with no Hoopa & Shaymin certainly sounds refreshing for we players who like to play more slowly, conserve resources, and set-up evolve Pokemon. First time the game's had the chance to be like that since before the BW era began.
 
I'm rooting for GEN-on. Hear me out though.

There are five (six) sets in the BREAK block. There are really only three possibilities for the rotation, assuming they want to go SM-on for 2019:

1. BKT-on. BKT is the start of a new mechanic, which makes it a good starting point for the rotation. We only lose four sets--PRC, DC, ROS, and AOR--leaving all five (six) BREAK sets to be rotated out next year. It wouldn't be the first time TPCI has rotated out six sets, so there's a bit of precedent.

2. BKP-on. This is a middle-of-the-road kind of rotation, rotating out four sets and leaving four for next year. Losing BKT would also be relevant because a lot of high-tier cards are in this set: Mewtwo, Gallade, Typhlosion, Houndoom, Magnezone, Raikou, Rainbow Force Xerneas, and Zoroark. In terms of Trainers, just about all of them see or have seen play: Assault Vest, Brigette, Buddy-Buddy Rescue, Fisherman, Float Stone, Heavy Ball, Judge, Parallel City, Skyla, Super Rod, Town Map. Rotating this set would see drastic changes to how decks are built.

3. GEN-on. This is kind of a reach, but it's definitely possible. We can all agree that Pokemon wants to head towards an evolution-based format. The two biggest pieces of evidence that point to this are Pokemon-GX being proper evolutions and Alolan Muk. Alolan Muk helps keep big Basics in check - but it's completely outclassed by Garbodor. It's a stretch, but one could make the argument that BKP will get rotated so that Alolan Muk will remain relevant for more than just one year. Should this happen, we will also have to say goodbye to Darkrai, Espeon-EX (right at it was getting good!), Greninja, Golduck BREAK (now that we have a playable Golduck, too), Mega Scizor, Manaphy, Raticate BREAK, Slowking, Zebstrika, and that cool-ass Sudowoodo that curb stomps Darkrai into the ground that literally no one uses. As far as Trainers go... again, just about all of them will be missed: Bursting Balloon, Delinquent, Fighting Fury Belt, Max Elixir, Max Potion, Puzzle of Time, and Reverse Valley.

By the time the rotation happens, we will be right on the heels of SM3's English release - it might even be legal to play at Worlds if the dates line up. Should GEN-on come to pass, we'll have seven sets to build with as the season begins. GEN-on would slow the format down a lot, especially since we are also losing Shaymin-EX, Hoopa-EX, and Forest of Giant Plants. One could argue that removing these three cards is enough to slow it down, and that is true. But what would we lose, really, in terms of decks?

We lose Ray, Gyarados, and Vileplume. Those are the only notable losses. It would barely register as a blip on the radar. If you're looking to shake up the format, I think TPCI needs to cut either BREAKthrough or BREAKpoint (or both).
 
PMJ said:
I'm rooting for GEN-on. Hear me out though.

There are five (six) sets in the BREAK block. There are really only three possibilities for the rotation, assuming they want to go SM-on for 2019:

1. BKT-on. BKT is the start of a new mechanic, which makes it a good starting point for the rotation. We only lose four sets--PRC, DC, ROS, and AOR--leaving all five (six) BREAK sets to be rotated out next year. It wouldn't be the first time TPCI has rotated out six sets, so there's a bit of precedent.

2. BKP-on. This is a middle-of-the-road kind of rotation, rotating out four sets and leaving four for next year. Losing BKT would also be relevant because a lot of high-tier cards are in this set: Mewtwo, Gallade, Typhlosion, Houndoom, Magnezone, Raikou, Rainbow Force Xerneas, and Zoroark. In terms of Trainers, just about all of them see or have seen play: Assault Vest, Brigette, Buddy-Buddy Rescue, Fisherman, Float Stone, Heavy Ball, Judge, Parallel City, Skyla, Super Rod, Town Map. Rotating this set would see drastic changes to how decks are built.

3. GEN-on. This is kind of a reach, but it's definitely possible. We can all agree that Pokemon wants to head towards an evolution-based format. The two biggest pieces of evidence that point to this are Pokemon-GX being proper evolutions and Alolan Muk. Alolan Muk helps keep big Basics in check - but it's completely outclassed by Garbodor. It's a stretch, but one could make the argument that BKP will get rotated so that Alolan Muk will remain relevant for more than just one year. Should this happen, we will also have to say goodbye to Darkrai, Espeon-EX (right at it was getting good!), Greninja, Golduck BREAK (now that we have a playable Golduck, too), Mega Scizor, Manaphy, Raticate BREAK, Slowking, Zebstrika, and that cool-ass Sudowoodo that curb stomps Darkrai into the ground that literally no one uses. As far as Trainers go... again, just about all of them will be missed: Bursting Balloon, Delinquent, Fighting Fury Belt, Max Elixir, Max Potion, Puzzle of Time, and Reverse Valley.

By the time the rotation happens, we will be right on the heels of SM3's English release - it might even be legal to play at Worlds if the dates line up. Should GEN-on come to pass, we'll have seven sets to build with as the season begins. GEN-on would slow the format down a lot, especially since we are also losing Shaymin-EX, Hoopa-EX, and Forest of Giant Plants. One could argue that removing these three cards is enough to slow it down, and that is true. But what would we lose, really, in terms of decks?

We lose Ray, Gyarados, and Vileplume. Those are the only notable losses. It would barely register as a blip on the radar. If you're looking to shake up the format, I think TPCI needs to cut either BREAKthrough or BREAKpoint (or both).
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Skill wouldn't rotate in a BKP-on format, it was printed as a full art in BKP
 
Okay fine, keep Skill then. It's not exactly format-defining.
 
So I've been thinking about this more, and I'd like to throw out a question to the more experienced, veteran pokemon players:

Has pokemon ever had a time in its past where it's only carried 3 or 4 expansions in its Standard format?

If yes, then I think we should be prepared for a rotation through Evolutions. If not, then we'll probably still have everything Breakthrough on.

Right now, my money's on Breakthrough on. I really doubt that Pokemon's going to rotate out 8 or 9 expansions. It's just going to <bleep> too many people off.
 
21times said:
So I've been thinking about this more, and I'd like to throw out a question to the more experienced, veteran pokemon players:

Has pokemon ever had a time in its past where it's only carried 3 or 4 expansions in its Standard format?

If yes, then I think we should be prepared for a rotation through Evolutions. If not, then we'll probably still have everything Breakthrough on.

Right now, my money's on Breakthrough on. I really doubt that Pokemon's going to rotate out 8 or 9 expansions. It's just going to <bleep> too many people off.
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The 'Emergency rotation' was BW-DEX when it happened (5 sets)
 
Going to be real. I think essentially rotating everything released prior to October 2016 seems like a terrible idea. There was a lot of money invested in those cards and to only get one season of play from them is ridiculous in my opinion. Honestly, I think losing VS Seeker + Trainer's mail alone does a metric ton to slow down the format. Add Shaymin to that list and I think the format will naturally be slow even rotating 4 sets.
 
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