Discussion Cards To Resurface or See Play

pokedan24 said:
How about Espeon from PLF? It will not only snipe more things for weakness, but it has a new Eevee that can evolve T1. It can also take out Trubbish before it evolves (not to mention all the usual plasma benefits).
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Has that been confirmed somewhere that you can evolve Eevee on the first turn in that way? The card says that it "counts as evolving this pokemon" so I wonder if that includes the first turn rule about evolution too. I could see it being an exception to the rule though.
 
blackbeltdude said:
pokedan24 said:
How about Espeon from PLF? It will not only snipe more things for weakness, but it has a new Eevee that can evolve T1. It can also take out Trubbish before it evolves (not to mention all the usual plasma benefits).
Click to expand...

Has that been confirmed somewhere that you can evolve Eevee on the first turn in that way? The card says that it "counts as evolving this pokemon" so I wonder if that includes the first turn rule about evolution too. I could see it being an exception to the rule though.
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Yeah, it's Ability applies the same way as Zorua's Ascension. You CAN evolve it, meaning that Espeon with 2 Deoxys and a Silver Bangle/ 3 Deoxys and a Muscle Band can OHKO an Active Lucario-EX, or Mewtwo-EX by T2 if you go second. And it can also pick up those eventual Machops and Riolus before they can even evolve.
 
Luispipe8 said:
blackbeltdude said:
Has that been confirmed somewhere that you can evolve Eevee on the first turn in that way? The card says that it "counts as evolving this pokemon" so I wonder if that includes the first turn rule about evolution too. I could see it being an exception to the rule though.
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Yeah, it's Ability applies the same way as Zorua's Ascension. You CAN evolve it, meaning that Espeon with 2 Deoxys and a Silver Bangle/ 3 Deoxys and a Muscle Band can OHKO an Active Lucario-EX, or Mewtwo-EX by T2 if you go second. And it can also pick up those eventual Machops and Riolus before they can even evolve.
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Wow, that's pretty awesome. :)

It looks like the new Eevee is going to make some plasma builds a lot more viable now that you can just play it down, attach and evolve.
 
I think Evosoda will increase in play now that level ball and heavy ball are rotated. Stunfisk and Dugtrio might also see as cheaper alternatives for fighting decks. Also, I hear a lot of talk about Donphan (Plasma storm) being good now.
 
When it comes to needing more ways to search Pokemon (due to Level and Heavy Ball being rotated), I think more decks will rely on Pokemon Fan Club. In addition, I think a lot of decks running that will also run Bicycle since Fan Club uses up your Supporter for the turn.
 
pokedan24 said:
Also, I hear a lot of talk about Donphan (Plasma storm) being good now.
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Not that I'm saying Donphan is not good, I'm just going to say that I haven't heard anything about him being played more/less. Is there a reason people might run Donphan over Meinshao FIF? I get the higher HP, but Meinshao's attack returns it to the hand, so taking damage isn't an issue, plus it only needs one energy to attack.
 
I think people were just jumping the gun with Donphan with out looking into Meinshao to much because just skiming over the scans Meinshao dosent look very good. But when you actually think about putting it in your hand it makes it the better choice.
 
Hi thood and Ironman131,

Donphan keeps energies on the batlefield while Mienshao forces you to replay them from the hand. This also assumes that you have not been N'ed. Nevertheless both can be combined with Trevenant to a nice hit and run theme and both can hit for 40 to 100 for one energy with all the [F] support out now.
 
Donphan is better because it isn't susceptible to N. They both do the same amount of damage. It is difficult to knock something out on the bench (It can only be done through Dusknoir, Snipping, or using a card with a Reversal like effect). Let's be honest here they both only require 1 energy to attack, and give up 1 prize so getting knocked out isn't a huge deal.
 
I didn't think Donphan was bad. I have been playing Accelgor and it is not that difficult to get multiple Shelmet in play and evolving into accelgor. The same goes for Mienshao but it is less likely to be KO'd than donphan because it goes into your hand.
 
Ironman131 said:
I didn't think Donphan was bad. I have been playing Accelgor and it is not that difficult to get multiple Shelmet in play and evolving into accelgor. The same goes for Mienshao but it is less likely to be KO'd than donphan because it goes into your hand.
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The difference between Accelgor and Mienshao is that Accelgor did more damage and provided paralyzation. Donphan can only be KO'd on the bench by 3 things. Those things are: Dusknoir, Cards with Reversal like effects, and Snipes. All 3 of those things also hurt Mienshao and 2 of them are more effective. In fact since Mienshao has less HP and is sometimes a Mienfoo (which has considerably less HP) it it is actually easier to kill Mienshao (or Mienfoo). Snipes are the only thing that hurt Donphan more than Mienshao. The popular Pokemon that can snipe are Genesect EX and Darkrai EX. Darkrai EX is weak against fighting and as a result gets "wrecked" by Donphan. Genesect EX only does 20 damage per turn (from snipes) therefore it would take 7 turns to kill a Donphan. Within these 7 turns a Donphan would have taken all 6 prizes.
 
They both have their advantages. Donphan does have more HP but there is no way to heal if needed where Mienshao can take a little bit of damage and gets cleared when you it goes back into the hand.
 
Ironman131 said:
They both have their advantages. Donphan does have more HP but there is no way to heal if needed where Mienshao can take a little bit of damage and gets cleared when you it goes back into the hand.
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The only time either of them take damage is in the scenarios I listed. In 2 of them Donphan is better than Mienshao. Not only that but Donphan only gives up 1 prize and takes 1 energy to attack. If you are using Donphan you can attach an energy to a different Pokemon each turn. If Donphan gets knocked out then it's no big deal. Donphan outclasses Mienshao.
 
This next set has opened up a lot of ideas.

Celebi EX: Primal Traits and Megas could make using pre stage attacks a viable strategy. Even with the new stadium, Memory Shrine, I think Celebi could work because there are other stadiums you might want to use instead (eg: fighting stadium)

Emboar: Camerupt EX looks like a promising partner for Emboar. Throw in a Delphox and we could have something a deck.

Blastoise: Primal Kyogre and possibly Wailord give Blastoise new friends. We now have Dive Ball for search and Archie's Trump Card to cheat the evolution rule. I'd be surprised if we don't start seeing more Blastoise after this set is released.

Empoleon, Greninja, Mega Blastoise, and any water Pokemon. Again, Dive Ball and Archie's Trump Card should make these water Pokemon more playable.

Fairy Energy: I think decks using pure fairies are going to get better with Gardevoir's and Diancie's megas. This also means Xerneas and Aromatisse should rise in play too.

Forretress: I just think it's a decent card. The ability is great for those times when you just need a little extra damage. It's attack is great against Donphan. 20 + 20(4 retreat) + 20 from Muscle band + 10 from ability is a KO.
 
Camerupt doesn't really even need an acceleration pokemon I dont think. You should probably run it with the new Scorching Earth Blacksmith combo which will give you some draw as well as the ability to attach 3 fire energy to your pokemon in a turn, which is enough for Implosion to do 170 with a muscle band.

But talking about cards likely to see more play, Blacksmith is obviously going to be really good now that you can pair it with also being able to draw some cards. And a stadium is much nicer than Fiery torch, since I dont believe fire decks have any better stadium options anyway and being able to be fast from turn 1 is gunna help fast fire decks. Honestly Blacksmith feels much easier to play than Emboar, it doesnt have to worry about evolving to stage 2, doesn't take up benched space, doesnt require garbotoxin to be down, etc- plus recycling energy out the discard is a lot more efficient for deck space i think. and 3 attachments is usually enough, even though emboar of course gives the option of 4+.
 
pokedan24 said:
^

I would agree with you if Energy Retrieval and Superior Energy Retrieval didn't exist.
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Its also deck space though. If you want to run emboar then you also have to start being really tight about what other pokemon you want, its gunna have to be basics or pokemon with insanely good payoff that need hat 4+ energy every turn, otherwise it seems way more efficient to run 3 blacksmith (+2 VS seeker) and gain about 10 cards breathing room. im not saying emboar wont work but i doubt it will be the best option?
 
Scorched Feathers said:
Altaria will, sadly, never be good anymore. 70HP is too frail. What you're suggesting has been suggested before, and it's too much setup. I play the deck myself. Garbodor/Garchomp may see play, as it blocks fairy decks as well as Deoxys, and with a Muscle Band. Garchomp hits slightly more significant numbers. 1 Energy + Band + Laserbank = 110 Damage//2 Energy + Band + Laserbank = 150 Damage. It's more efficient, I guess.
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I am testing a 3-3 line of Altaria in a Dragonite deck at the moment. It actually sets up quite reliably for a deck that has so many Pokemon (3 Dragonite, 1-1 M-Manectric, 3-3 Altaria, 3 Virizion EX, 2 Baby Virizion). And I've found so far that people aren't usually using their Lysandre on my Alaria- they are going for damaged Dragonites, Virizion EX etc.
 
Medicham, with 4 strong energy, Fighting stadium and muscle band, with 4 machamps on the bench.
can do 230 damage but can attack twice for 460 damage :).
obviously though more efficient/quicker/easier to set up with 2 strong energy and 2 machamps, for 150,150

So with multistrikers having potential for big damage. Maybe defensive items will make a comeback.
Rocky helmet and rock guard for instance would damage the attacker twice.
Hard charm and aurorus Furios fist. Would reduce the damage twice.
I guess this depends on how viable the multi strikers are though. Drillbur has built in energy acceleration (possibly even for special metal energy) and Medicham has the support. Thought they both have low HP
 
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