Charizard G LV.X & Garchomp C LV.X

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WhimsicalBox

Herp Derp
Member
I'm sure the general idea has been mentioned before, or even played, but I haven't found a recent thread, or one that includes the card combos I'm thinking about for this deck, so I'm posting this to see what people think of the deck idea. Here's each card individually:

Charizard G LV.X
The huge hitter of this deck, delivering a 150 damage blow, OHKOing nearly everything in the game, just shy of Wailord's impressive 180hp. Call for power is a very useful ability, allowing you to transfer your energy from one charizard to another, and since it doesn't even have to be basic, you can steal energy from Garchomp too. It should also be noted that Charizard G hit's 50 for 2 (Energy gain/DCE) so he can pick off weakened foes without all the risk. While the potential discard is large there is always flipping a heads, but largely other cards that allow you to reattach. I think a 2-2 line would be most effective, so you can call for power, and then poketurn to send out another set up charizard, but I'm not sure on that.

Garchomp C LV.X
The ever-popular Garchomp C LV.X fits in nearly all SP decks, and this one is no exception. Sniping for 80 for only one energy is, as always, amazing. Not really much to say here. Both Charizard and Garchomp can make use of DCE's, which is a nice bonus.
2-2 Line.

Heatran LV.X
With the ability to return two energy to your hand when they are discarded, heatran will be extremely useful if you can get it on the bench. With a heavy retreat cost, you need to run plenty of switch/warp point/warp energy, or even Level Max's to get it out, but it can be well worth it. Thinking of running a 2-2 if the effect stacks, which would allow you to return 4 fire energy back to charizard, meaning flipping tails really has no effect (Energy Gain).


Ninetales HGSS
Ninetales could see potential use in this deck, as one energy discarded to draw three is an amazing ability. Ninetales should never be attacking, so other than it's ability there's not much to say. Don't know what vulpix I should use for the basic, if anyone has a suggestion. Not sure what kind of line to run.

Ninetales UL
I'm somewhat shaky on this card, but see it as potentially useful. For one {R} energy, it allows you to attach 3 from your discard pile, which can be useful for charizard. Might scrap the idea, but wanted to post it anyways.

Dialga G LV.X]
Since this deck, and all SP decks, run many trainers vileplume UD can destroy them. I am considering throwing in a 1-1 dialga G X line to prevent this, and this furthers the need for warp points and the like. Once again, not much else to say here.

That's really the core of the deck, although I have never made an SP deck prior to this, so I am somewhat unfamiliar. Obviously you need poketurns, energy gains, power sprays, etc. but i don't know how much, and the general T/S/S list. Anyone know of a general guide?

A couple of problems that stand out are difficulty in setting up Heatran (especially with it's retreat cost) and Dialga, and the fact that Machamp destroys just about everything I have. I don't really know any anti-machamp techs, so suggestions would be useful. Also, currently the deck doesn't have any ideal starter. Sableye? Honchkrow G? Input on that would be helpful as well.

That about sums up my deck idea, and I'd like to hear what others think. Please don't post something that is not at all constructive, and the general basis of the deck is the pairing of Charizard and Garchomp, so don't suggest removing either of those (not that you'd want to take out garchomp).

EDIT: I do not consider this deck to be viable for tournament play, so please do not treat it as if I'm trying to make it that way. As I said before, please don't post something that is not constructive in any way.
 
^^That didn't answer his/her question.

I'm going to say this straight up because no one else will. This is a bad idea. At best, it takes 4 turns to set up a Zard with no extra energy attachment. You will quickly lose prizes and it might be worth 1 turn's worth of attacks. With a total of 120 HP, charizard can take 2 hits... that's it. You DO NOT want to poketurn it (heaven forbid), so your only option is to warp into chomp. That is too unreliable. You can quickly lose your energies to a coinflip. Even with Tran, you will need another DCE to recover. By that time, you will most likely lose your Zard and take another 4 turns to get another one back out. The ninetails is cute, but they are another free prize each to most decks. You will already be doing a lot of prize giving in this game. The tran is also very cute. In theory, it works. In actuality, it is another use of a Warp to get it in play, and it doesn't remedy the fact that you need to pull a DCE out of your hat to get zard back in the game after a bad flip. All Dialga G is doing is taking up your space... you really don't wanna keep it in there. Overall, don't play Zard G. It just isn't worth the 4 turn investment and the horrible risk-return ratio.
 
I have played this before, garchomp is accually your main attacker, attacking while you set up zard. it works rather well. Now, the heatran, though good, is slow to set up and challenging to play, zard is weak hp wise, but ohko's 99% of the current metagame. You flip tails, and you just use heatran and a dce to do it again, its a little slow to set up, but you could get it going in the same amount of time as decks like vilegar
 
Afraid zero speaks the truth, setting up 4 lvl x lines and a stage two tech quickly would be an impressive feat, and your decklist simply does not accomodate this

So many theories only work in theory, and now your putting about 6 different theories in one deck where the main attacker needs 5 energies which would take min 3 turns which is pretty horrible when most decks are dissapointed these days if they can't set up second turn lol
 
^That is incorrect, in theory. If Chomp is your main attacker, why play such a bulky guy that basically hogs the deck? That is fine that Zard OHKO's everything, but the card says that there is a 50% chance that he fails after he attacks, plus your opponent can attack. Also, your comment to "taking the same time as most decks" is insulting. Most decks usually have something set up by turn 3. This deck barely gets an attack off by turn 3 with zard, and T2 with chomp. Either way, once the opponent takes off, they will dominate you. Most decks have a down time of about a turn. Downtime is the amount of turns inbetween having and losing attackers. This deck cannot snipe the bench, so Chomp is basically there for cheap prizes. Thus, this deck will, on average, have a downtime of 3 turns. Let's be generous and say that 1/3 turns your opponent takes a prize. That is still a game loss for you in most situations. You will get 4 prizes from 4 DCE... if you are lucky enough. That leaves zard to attack... and GL getting those last 2. This deck is just impossible to make work. Give up on Zard and move to something else.
 
I never said any lines, i never said anything about the ninetails.

2-2 zard
2-2 chomp
1-1 heatran

CHOMP IS YOUR MAIN STARTING ATTACKER LIKE 50% OF THE OTHER DECKS IN THE FORMAT

Blaze and luxray are not for everyone, some people would rather pick and chip at there opponents and then bring up the big guns they had been setting up and proceed to destroy.

Turn 1, obtain chomp, energy chomp, use one of his two attacks.
Turn 2, Level up chomp (or not, w/e, if eq is enough, work on zard still)
Turn 3, (by now, level up chomp, heal eq dmg, attack)
Turn 4,( by now zard will have his 3 energy and gain if you only rushed last turn) Send out heatran that you got from bebes, collectors, communication, etc. Level up, warp point. Send out zard. Proceed to destroy.

Every turn zard does NOT get tails, attach to a benched, when he does, you can call those up to him so you may not even NEED dce.

If you get a shat hand to start, well, thats the game, zard will be turn 5, maybe 6, oh WELL, chomp takes prizes at a good pace and zard will be ready soon.

This deck is not meant to destroy luxchomp or dialgachomp, its not meant to be turn 2/3 victory. And YES, EVERY SINGLE VILEGAR I HAVE EVER PLAYED AGAINST TOOK AT LEAST TO TURN 3 TO ATTACK FOR DAMAGE.

Try not to think of every deck that rolls through here as, "will this outspeed luxchomp and donk decks?"

Cause thats like 1% of the cards in the rotation.

For gods sakes, there was a lugia legend thing here earlier, and that got less hate.

Haters Gonna Hate

KIPZ OUT
 
Comparison time!
Charizard's just too slow for 150 damage. If you're going to use that, why not just have Magnezone Prime? The fact that it's going to the Lost Zone is arbitrary except for Heatran, which would take quite a bit to set up. I'd rather be sure I'm going to lose a certain number of energy cards than rely on coin flips. Plus, Magnezone has that insane drawpower.
How about Wailord, too? That takes a ton less time to get energy on it with Feraligatr Prime, and still does a good amount of damage (usually 100 for 4 energy) without a risk of discarding it.
I'm not sure why people are so worried about whether this deck outspeeds VileGar or not, VileGar beats it because of trainer lock.
 
Wow dude... chill out. There was no "hating" going on here... just logic. You're taking this far too seriously.

Your plan calls for using Claw Swipe/EQ two turns in a row... THAT IS JUST STUPID. You will only pick up prizes from a Spiritomb that attacked twice. This strat is very poor for a few reasons. One, you are banking that your opponent can't 1/2 shot Garchomp. Most stuff in this format will either get a monster set up in 3 turns, or be KOing your stuff. Secondly, you're assuming that you start with garchomp. If you don't, you'll need to pull out a warp and a collector ASAP. No free retreating for you. Finally, you're assuming that your opponent isn't doing anything during their turns. While you set up a single Chomp, they'll probably have 2 Gengar ready to go.

You seem to think that I think that EVERY DECK needs to be speed. They don't. Not all decks can outspeed Luxchomp, and the ones that do will often fall behind in midgame, as we have seen a bit from Sablock. That is fine... but you should have SOMETHING by turn 3. Turn 2-3 is usually when pressure comes to you... unless you play a setup deck. This is not a setup deck due to the lack of Sableye/Spiritomb/Smeargle. Gengar won't attack until turn 3 because it does not need to. Gengar is more than happy to let you KO the spiritomb and wait until they have their plume and gar ready to go. The other problem is your down time is FAR TOO LONG. You assume that your opponent cannot spurt out 120 damage when you get Zard out. Here is a list of decks that can do that easily: gengar, gyarados, regigigas, Magnezone, Machamp, etc. SP won't have too much trouble with you as they can Chomp/Lux your Zard up when it becomes a threat. They can Chomp the base one with a few energy, or Lux + 2bat the base one with a few energy. You will lose what you have been working for for the past few turns. Once you lose your Charizard, you will take another few turns to get another one back. You can be attaching to bench, but that's assuming that you had time with Zard already attacking. You need to worry about bad flips and opponent KO's. Either one can ruin you. Once again, your down time will give away a bunch of prizes to your opponent, and will put you so far behind that you cannot come back. The start-up speed may not be a problem, but the downtime is definitely a problem.
 
I want to point out that I did not make this deck with the intention of it being played competitive. I realize it wouldn't be as good as many other popular metagame decks, but winning tournaments isn't the focus of the deck. As this deck is meant for casual play, i.e. league, I am looking for ways it can be improved, not that it is unsuable in a competitive environment. While I realize you may dislike the idea of the deck altogether, as I mentioned in the first post, please either provide constructive criticism or do not post.
Also, in a quick response, if you can potentially get a second charizard set up, call for power makes poketurn completely viable, as you can shift all energy from one charizard to another.
 
I want to point out that Zero said, and I quote, "This is a bad idea." There isn't really a point to improving a bad idea; it will still be bad. Zero gave you perfectly sound advice (even if it weren't, it's still his opinion) in saying that you should give up on 'Zard G.
If you want Poké Turn to be viable at all, you'll need to either get Charizard G Lv.X with the energy and damage to the bench or use Level Max to get a Charizard G Lv.X on the bench, both of which take up space.
 
Um... if it isn't competitive, why post it? There is no value in winning fun games, so why would you post it? I see that you made an edit to make me look like a bad guy. You added the clause about "noncompetitive play" 2.5 hours my last post. Good job ;D If you would care to read my posts, you would notice that I laid to rest most of your "tech" ideas. Clearly if you are willing to tech your deck against other decks, that means you want to win. Why would you care if you only intend it for league play? I had many grounds to assume you were taking yourself seriously. Because of this, I had to tell you (constructively) that you would crash and burn if you stuck with it. I do not dislike the deck. It is completely unviable for what I saw as its intended purpose. You somewhat hinted at this purpose, so I treated it as such.

If it is not meant for tournament play, it has no purpose winning. Why would you ask for help if you do not care about the result of a game? You might as well throw in some Flareon 4 and Honchkrow G. Asking for help for a league deck assumes that people find the deck interesting. The theory of the deck is flawed and thus it will not receive much help.

If anything, I'd say you NEED 2-1 Uxie, 1/2 Smeargle, and 2 Unown Q. These cards are an absolute must.
 
@ Scizor
It's also perfectly sound advice to say "You're better off running LuxChomp." But that's not what I want to do. Even if you do consider the general basis of the deck to be a bad idea, I still am attempting to find a semi-usable way to play Charizard G. When I say that I do not care if it is tournament viable and simply want ways to improve the idea, continuing to denounce it is not particularly helpful. I am aware that you do not think it is worth trying to play, and I would like to do so anyways.
@Zero
I apologize if I was misleading in my original post. I was only attempting to point out any potential synergy between the cards, I was not attempting to imply I was using it in competitive play. I also apologize if I made you out to be the bad guy, as I was only trying to stress that I was looking for ways to improve the deck, not reasons it wouldn't work. As for why I would bother playing a deck that isn't going to win any tournaments, I play largely for fun, with friends, and at a local league. I don't believe with any deck I can always win, but I do believe almost all decks have room for improvement as this one clearly does.
 
One can play for fun but still build decks that are somewhat competitive in terms of build (i did this quite alot with my friends back during the ex series).

Garchomp C lvX is an energy guzzler, it's great sniping ability comes at a cost of 2 energy. A deck such as this just cannot take another pokemon discarding energy to deal it's maximum damage, Charizard is already a hassle to keep alive so to not lose all the energy (plus the energy it might be losing). Simple line's will do

3-1 Charizard G lvX
1-1 Heatran lvX
1 Crobat G (meatsheild / something with free retreat which you'll find handy)
2-1 Uxie lvX (the lvX is somewhat optional)
1 Smeargle UD
1 Unown Q

That should be your base line, before you start adding in ANY additional techs. You don't want to add a bunch of techs and secondary attackers unless you HAVE to, in which try to keep the number of techs to a minimum (1 if you can). The addittional of 4 Energy Pickup (legends Awakened) would help the deck a bunch giving you more options to retrieve your discarded apart from Heatran lvX. Try to avoid another bench sitter tech like Dialga G lvX, you don;t want too many of those clogging the deck if all they're going to do is stay on the bench. A 1-1 Heatran lvX line is all you're going to need because that's all you're going to be able to set up.
 
I see your point on Heatran, getting two set up on the bench is quite difficult. The main reason I wanted to use Dialga G LV.X is that otherwise vileplume would slow down the deck immensely. The main issue I saw with running Charizard by itself is that you have nothing else capable of attacking early game, which could be an issue. Could you combo it with Blaziken FB LV.X?
 
There isn't really much of a combo between Charizard G and Blaziken FB, but running it could help in taking out Vileplume, but any deck running Vileplume should also be running Warp Energy as a precaution so bare that in mind.
 
Another card I noticed which would allow you to set up sooner, but would take up your supporter for the turn is flint's willpower.
In one turn you can flint's, energy gain, and attach a fire energy. The next turn you can attach a DCE and attack.
 
That's a Supporter, though, which sort of makes it worse. I guess it could work alright, but there'd be lots of times when you'd rather use a different Supporter (like Cyrus's Conspiracy).
 
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