Counter That Pokemon! - Round 20

RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Next time, do Life Orb Salamence, and see what can switch in on that. Anyway:

Latios @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Dragon Pulse
-Surf
-Roar
-Calm Mind

Latios resists both of Jirachi's attacking moves and threatens it with Surf in the rain, which means Jirachi won't be walling this guy. Assuming Jirachi uses Substitute on the switch in, Latios will break its Sub. At this point, we assume that Jirachi will use Calm Mind to boost itself, but Latios has enough raw power to 2/3HKO it without it getting too powerful. Also, this Jirachi lacks Flash Cannon, so it cannot do much to it. If Jirachi uses Thunder or Water Pulse, then it misses getting a Substitute, which means Latios cannot KO it easier (unless Latios gets paralyzed). Also, if Jirachi's boosts become too overwhelming,

+0 Water Pulse to Latios = 10.26 - 11.92%
+0 Thunder to Latios = 13.24 - 15.56%
+1 Water Pulse to Latios = 15.23 - 17.88%
+1 Thunder to Latios = 19.86 - 23.5%
+5 Water Pulse to Latios = 34.76 - 40.72
+5 Thunder to Latios = 46.02 - 54.3%

Surf to Jirachi = 50.24 - 59.15% = 2/3HKO depending on damage roll

Also going to post a secondary counter if my Latios one seems a little risky.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SpD
Nature: Relaxed
-Roar
-Earthquake
-Scald
-Stealth Rock

A variation of a defensive Swampert that is immune to Thunder and is neutral to Water Pulse (and shares typing with Gastro and Quag ;D). Swampert doesn't care about Calm Mind because it is physical, and a Scald from Swampert in the Rain breaks Jirachi's Sub. Earthquake also 2HKOs, so that would be the primary move to use here. Roar can be used to take away a Sub and boosts from Jirachi. SR is filler because Jirachi doesn't switch. Ice Beam could be put in its place.

+0 Water Pulse to Swampert = 17.2 - 20.19%
+1 Water Pulse to Swampert = 25.43 - 29.92%
+5 Water Pulse to Swampert = 58.6 - 68.82%

Earthquake to Jirachi = 58.91 - 68.81%
Scald to Jirachi = 28.71 - 33.66%

So there's two counters for you. Latios is the primary choice, but if it seems risky then Swampert will be submitted.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 80 HP / 176 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

Guaranteed 2HKO with Earthquake.

+0 Jirachi v Tyranitar: 12.5-14.7%
+1 Jirachi v Tyranitar: 18.0-21.3%
+2 Jirachi v Tyranitar: 23.8-28.0%
+3 Jirachi v Tyranitar: 29.6-34.6%
+4 Jirachi v Tyranitar: 35.2-41.6%
+5 Jirachi v Tyranitar: 41.0-48.2%
+6 Jirachi v Tyranitar: 46.5-54.8%

So yeah even at +6 Jirachi doesn't get a guaranteed 2HKO-in fact its more probable for it to miss the 2HKO than to get it. What a boss. Also, those were Water Pulse calcs; I think for some reason Thunder does 1-2 less damage for every calc.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake

Earthquake should OHKO Jirachi (guaranteed though on +1). It can tank Thunder fairly well. Water Pulse hardly does anything to it. Lum Berry helps avoid any unwanted Parahax on the first turn Thunder is used.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Yoshi I am not sure about your Latios. It switches in while Jirachi makes a Sub. After that Jirachi can paralyze it with Thunder and than the CM war begins which Jirachi will mostly likely win due to getting more CMs because of hax and at the end killing it with a crit because Latios doesn't have Substitute. I know it has Roar but I see two problems with it.
1.) CM Latios usually doesn't have room for Roar as Recover or HP Fire would be better
2.) A paralyzed Latios is dead weight to a team especially as it can't hit as hard as Specs version

Ok ladies and gentlemen here is my counter:

598.gif


Nattorei (because Ferrothorn is too mainstream)
@ Choice Band
Trait: Iron Barbs
Nature: Brave
248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
~ Gyro Ball
~ Power Whip
~ Bulldoze
~ Explosion

+0 Jirachi Water Pulse v Ferrothron max dmg 9.6%
+1 Jirachi Water Pulse v Ferrothron max dmg 14.5%
+2 Jirachi Water Pulse v Ferrothron max dmg 19%
+3 Jirachi Water Pulse v Ferrothron max dmg 23.9%
+4 Jirachi Water Pulse v Ferrothron max dmg 28.7%
+5 Jirachi Water Pulse v Ferrothron max dmg 33%
+6 Jirachi Water Pulse v Ferrothron max dmg 38.1%

+0 Jirachi Thunder v Ferrothron max dmg 12.8%
+1 Jirachi Thunder v Ferrothron max dmg 19%
+2 Jirachi Thunder v Ferrothron max dmg 25.3%
+3 Jirachi Thunder v Ferrothron max dmg 31.9%
+4 Jirachi Thunder v Ferrothron max dmg 38.1%
+5 Jirachi Thunder v Ferrothron max dmg 44.4%
+6 Jirachi Thunder v Ferrothron max dmg 50.7%

CB Ferrothorn Bulldoze v Jirachi 43.3%-50.9% 3HKO

Emvee your DNite has a strange EV spread. Did you mean 252 Speed? Also Adamant Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)? Either way if Jirachi uses Sub or Thunder on the switch it can still possibly criple Dnite for the rest of the game if both Thunders paralyze.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Okay, SS, I understand. I was thinking of submitting Swampert anyway, since it isn't crippled by Thunder and Water Pulse doesn't do much. Yeah, I'll submit Swampert, and maybe later I'll think of something else.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Sassy Nature
252 HP/252 Sp Def/4 Att
Storm Drain

- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

Jirachi can't even hit Gastro, and gastro always breaks the Sub with Earthquake.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Bippa said you wouldn't get points if you used Gastrodon.

Bippa said:
Note: I'm going to spice up this game starting now with a challenge. If you want points this round, you cannot use the following Pokemon: Quagsire, Gastrodon, and any other Pokemon that is immune to both Thunder and Water Pulse.
Click to expand...
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Hopefully Bippa will let me post another because I overlooked that...

Latias @ Leftovers
Timid
252 HP/252 Spe/4 Sp Att
Levitate

- Calm Mind
- Refresh
- Dragon Pulse
- HP Fire

Sets up CMs along with Rachi. Refresh to get rid of annoying status. Beats Rachi in CM war.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Latias is a pretty good counter but I still feel it needs Recover
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

I am certain we are to assume this is in rain, so HP Fire is kind of pointless. Another thing to add is that Refresh is kind of pointless; you're missing out on Recover and are better off adding Substitute to block status.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Latias will lose the CM war if it doesn't have Substitute to block hax (para, confusion, crit). Also Emvee please read my post with Ferrothorn.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

Celebi@Leftovers
Modest Nature
252 HP/252 SpAtk/4 Spe
-Nasty Plot
-Earth Power
-Giga Drain
-Recover

Celebi walls Jirachi's two moves and boosts up its SpAtk faster than Jirachi can. Plus, Jirachi at +6 still does nothing
+6 SpAtk Jirachi Thunder vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Celebi: 42.57% - 50.25%
3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
+6 SpAtk Jirachi Water Pulse vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Celebi: 31.93% - 37.62%
3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

In the course of battle, Celebi can boost past Jirachi and break his sub when they are at matching levels of boosts, use recover where appropriate, as Jirachi never gets closer than a 3HKO. Celebi also doesnt mind status as it is gone when it switches out.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

I don't usually post in this thread , I look over to just observe and see what counters come up. Lately, I haven't seen counters though I only see checks that may seem to pose' as counters . Let me clear this up briefly , when your pokemon has to either set-up or repeatedly do something it does not counter the pokemon , it checks it. If a pokemon resists the pokemons attack and literally the foe cannot do anything to you , but switch out that is a counter . I have seen some great counters and yes I understand it is fairly hard to come up with a complete counter seeing Bippa put a few restraints on . The point of this activity is to make you guys think hard and put a bit of effort into Countering the pokemon of Bippa's choice. This activity is suppose to help VG members be ready and able to handle unorthodox sets and really know how to handle an opponents team quite nicely for whatever they through at you . Yes, someone counter set-up's are counters don't get me wrong , but seeing checks that have to fully set-up to win is really just plain stupid . I am very pleased to see most participants using damage calculators to solve some conflicts , but still Checks are Checks and Counters are Counters .

If you have any further questions please, feel free to pm or vm me at anytime at all . I don't want to spam this thread with a disagreement that could go on for awhile so please contact me seperate with questions or concerns .

Anyhow, to put my own Counter in .

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Trait : Regenerator
EV's : 252 HP / 04 ATK / 252 Sp.D
Nature : Careful ( + Sp.D , - Sp.A )
- Earthquake
- Seed Bomb
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

Damage Calculator :

+0 Jirachi Water Pulse w/ Rain vs Tangrowth - 8.66% - 10.4%
+1 Jirachi Water Pulse w/ Rain vs Tangrowth - 13.12% - 15.59%
+2 Jirachi Water Pulse w/ Rain vs Tangrowth - 17.33% - 20.54%
+3 Jirachi Water Pulse w/ Rain vs Tangrowth - 21.53% - 25.5%
+4 Jirachi Water Pulse w/ Rain vs Tangrowth - 25.99% - 30.69%
+5 Jirachi Water Pulse w/ Rain vs Tangrowth - 30.2% - 35.64%
+6 Jirachi Water Pulse w/ Rain vs Tangrowth - 34.65% - 40.84%

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+0 Jirachi Thunder vs Tangrowth - 11.63% - 13.61%
+1 Jirachi Thunder vs Tangrowth - 17.33% - 20.54%
+2 Jirachi Thunder vs Tangrowth - 23.02% - 27.23%
+3 Jirachi Thunder vs Tangrowth - 28.71% - 33.91%
+4 Jirachi Thunder vs Tangrowth - 34.65% - 40.84%
+5 Jirachi Thunder vs Tangrowth - 40.35% - 47.52%
+6 Jirachi Thunder vs Tangrowth - 46.29% - 54.46%


Yes, if Jirachi were to get set-up to +4 and up it could very well threaten Tangrowth , but the next damage calculations you will see that Tangrowth can fire back and not allow this Jirachi to set-up to Max Power Potiential .

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+0 Tangrowth Earthquake vs Jirachi - 36.14% - 42.57%

It does quite a chunk and looks as if a sure 3HKO with out minimum damage vs leftovers therefore the max Jirachi would have to set-up if lucky is 3 CM's. With no recovery hurts this jirachi because either Tangrowth can get a leech seed off and take health and regain health each turn while hitting it with powerful EQ's. Substitute is not a god play vs Tangrowth and Jirachi's low boosted attacks do not threaten Tangrowth baring a Critical Hit .

Therefore, that is my counter. Hope you enjoyed reading this.

- R-C
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 7

ComfortEagle said:
Lanturn is actually pretty viable. Not only does it check/counter quite a few Pokemon (Tornadus, Thundurus, Politoed, Rotom-W, some Jirachi, and Starmie just to name a few), it's also a good defensive pivot and can really support its teamates with Heal Bell and Scald. It's a Pokemon that's only as good as the metageme lets it. The same can be said about Ditto, Gastrodon, and Dugtrio who can all be moved to lower tiers and still be good as long as they can do their jobs.

Fun fact: those six Pokemon I listed are all in the top 15 and are major parts to rain teams.
Click to expand...

One Approved said:
Also I'm questioning Lanturn and how viable it is in OU play. It counters Thundurus, but at the cost of being setup bait for Ferrothorn, Celebi, Breloom (with or without Technician), and Keldeo, getting toxiced by anything on a Rain Stall team, most notably Gastrodon, doesn't have recovery to shrug off hazard damge, and gets outsped by everything in OU that uses Earthquake save for MAYBE Donphan, which means it loses to every single sand sweeper or dragon sweeper in the game.
Click to expand...

Lanturn can't even counter Tornadus and Rotom-W consistantly. It has no recovery, so Hurricane is going to add up extremely easily, and Tornadus is just going to take the opportunity to switch out and heal itself with regenerator. Rotom-W wins if it has Hidden Power Grass or Trick, and while Lanturn might counter Politoed, it's not Politoed you should be scared of. It's Politoed's 5 teammates that Lanturn Probably doesn't counter. While you have huge base 125 HP, all of your other stats (including Defense and Special Defense) are attrocious. There is no way you are switching into more than 3 Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps.

In terms of countering Jirachi:
Celebi @Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
Calm nature
252 HP/224 SpDef/32 Spe
~Giga Drain
~Earth Power
~Perish Song
~Recover

Jirachi +0 Thunder vs 252/224 Celebi:
7.92-9.41% (lol too many hits to KO)

Jirachi +6 Thunder vs 252/224 Celebi
31.44-36.88% (4 hits to KO)

Jirachi +6 Water Pulse In Rain vs 252/224 Celebi
23.51-27.72% (5 hits to KO)

Yeah. You can attampt to ParaFuse me, but I'm gonna have like 12 Chances to use Perish Song just once. Not including Recover. And I have natural cure to rid me of status :)
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

@R-C: How does Tangrowth deal with paralysis from Jirachi? And you also have to assume that if Jirachi sets up a Sub on the turn you switch in, it blocks Leech Seed and can paralyze you. Also, Jirachi can set up behind the Sub while you suffer from paralysis and then eventually eliminate you. I don't know, I'm probably wrong.

@One Approved: Nice counter you have there! I just have one problem. Considering that we're efficiently trying to counter a Pokemon, we have to assume that Jirachi can switch out at any time, making Perish Song pointless (because you pointed out that you can switch out with Natural Cure as well). Otherwise, I like the addition of Earth Power to hit for a 3HKO. Good counter.
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 7

R-C, I do not think should really run a specially defensive set. It really can take any special hits much better and you're taking away from its huge Def.

One Approved said:
Lanturn can't even counter Tornadus and Rotom-W consistantly. It has no recovery, so Hurricane is going to add up extremely easily, and Tornadus is just going to take the opportunity to switch out and heal itself with regenerator. Rotom-W wins if it has Hidden Power Grass or Trick, and while Lanturn might counter Politoed, it's not Politoed you should be scared of. It's Politoed's 5 teammates that Lanturn Probably doesn't counter. While you have huge base 125 HP, all of your other stats (including Defense and Special Defense) are attrocious. There is no way you are switching into more than 3 Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps.
Click to expand...

- Tornadus can switchout? Oh, I better close this thread! No way anyone can win this game if we assume the Pokemon hits and runs.
- Everything needs recovery now? Why are you getting on me for this and not half this stuff posted in this thread that has no recovery?
- Actually, yes, I can take three rain boosted Hydro Pumps from Rotom-W (21.4% - 25.2%). Trick? The same can be said about Ferrothorn and Blissey lol. Lanturn actually minds less since it has 3 attack moves.
- You are really letting down on Lanturn's bulk. Go do calcs and see that that HP + moderate defences make it a great tank. Lanturn is actually as bulky as Gastrodon (need to run calcs first to see wh has better bulk.)

Lanturn might counter Politoed, it's not Politoed you should be scared of. It's Politoed's 5 teammates that Lanturn Probably doesn't counter.
Click to expand...

... I know how a battle works. >_>

(this is getting nowhere. let's take it to pm if you still want so we don't screw with this thread)
 
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 8

I guess it's points time.

TDL gets 2 points
Yoshi gets 1
DV gets 1
Emvee gets 1
SS gets 1
benny gets 1
Teapot gets 1 (and needs a pet Lanturn)


Round 9

Heatran @ Choice Specs
Timid Nature
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power Grass
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse

Assume Sun

Also, the combination of Heatran + Air Balloon cannot be used this round.

If any VG mods feel like posting some new rounds, let me know.
 
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