Does Anyone Still Wi-Fi Battle Anymore?

[Card Slinger J]

I know it kind of sounds like a stupid question but hear me out first, it feels like nowadays that since Pokemon Showdown became the mainstream Online Battle Simulator that gained publicity on YouTube and Smogon since last year it seems like there are less and less people who play the actual Pokemon games to setup Gen V and Gen IV Wi-Fi Battles with people online because they most likely think that it's become about as tedious as breeding a team of Pokemon on the actual games when an Online Simulator even though it isn't officially sanctioned for VGC's is more convenient and less time consuming. I understand where some people are coming from with this because they're getting older, moving on with their lives, or they just don't have the free time they used to have due to working at a full-time/part-time job or they're busy with high school/college. As for me I decided to skip college after graduating from high school back in 2003 while having a part-time job with a great work schedule not having to work on Saturday and Sunday for 10 years and still at it.

How many people here have given up on Gen V Wi-Fi Battles and have gone straight to battling exclusively on Pokemon Showdown instead? As for me I'm at a crossroads with the Pokemon franchise as to whether or not If I should keep on playing, I personally feel like Online Battle Simulators like Pokemon Showdown takes the fun away from playing Pokemon. If you disagree feel free to let me know and explain why, now granted the very first time I ever actually played Pokemon was when Yellow was first released on the Game Boy 13 years ago when I rented it at my local Blockbuster playing through it while having trouble getting through the game when I realized that the lack of battling against friends at the time was very difficult being stuck with a Link Cable. Years later up to 2007-2008 when Diamond/Pearl was first released it got me interested in the Pokemon video games again due to Wi-Fi Battling Online but since now in 2013 it feels like it's getting phased out for something more convenient that's not even officially endorsed by Nintendo/Game Freak with so many other faults with the Pokemon franchise I'm just not sure what to do at the moment.

 

[Frezgle]

I play on Wifi once in a while against friends, but the setups in Gen V are terrible. The only option that balances levels is Flat Rule, where you're restricted to 3-vs-3 and no Pokemon like Rayquaza, Mewtwo, etc. (which leaves 6-vs-6 and the uber tier unplayable unless you and someone else have the time to train a whole team to the same levels as each other).
And I rarely do random matchup because people tend to disconnect when they know they're going to lose, which doesn't record a win for me. On a simulator, or at least on Pokemon-Online (I can't really stand Showdown), it counts as a win.
Plus, like you said, some people just down have the time to really train a crack team of EV-trained superstars.

It doesn't take the fun out of the main games for me because they're barely even the same thing, in my opinion. Competitive is much like chess or any other strategic game, where you play to outwit your opponent, whereas in the games, you play for the experience of the world and story. I enjoy both of those things, so my opinion or enjoyment of one rarely influences my opinion or enjoyment of the other.

If Pokemon is going to make officially endorsed competitive battling more popular, they need to make it more accessible and more varied. The options in Gen IV were nice, but in Gen V they got really limited. And they only added the Wonder Launcher, which I never use because held items should be the only items usable in a battle of wits. Anyone can just use a Max Revive and call it a win. BW2 were at least a step up when it came to EV training, which I appreciated, but it's still incredibly tedious. They need to make that easier and faster, make IVs more controllable and visible, and make it so we can have 6-vs-6 auto-level-100 again.

 

[Card Slinger J]

I play on Wifi once in a while against friends, but the setups in Gen V are terrible. The only option that balances levels is Flat Rule, where you're restricted to 3-vs-3 and no Pokemon like Rayquaza, Mewtwo, etc. (which leaves 6-vs-6 and the uber tier unplayable unless you and someone else have the time to train a whole team to the same levels as each other).
And I rarely do random matchup because people tend to disconnect when they know they're going to lose, which doesn't record a win for me. On a simulator, or at least on Pokemon-Online (I can't really stand Showdown), it counts as a win.
Plus, like you said, some people just down have the time to really train a crack team of EV-trained superstars.

Yeah I remember Pokemon-Online first debuted on the Internet in Gen IV but it didn't get the mainstream attention that Showdown got on YouTube and Smogon unfortunately. I've had people disconnect on me when they're about to lose in Random Matchup although it was only a few times however most of my opponent's were mainly from Japan while there were some in North America that didn't disconnect from me at all. In Gen V I agree I didn't like how Random Matchup on GTS was limited to 4 Pokemon in your Party instead of 6 like it should've been. In Gen VI I hope Game Freak gets rid of spoiling each players' party to one another especially on Infrared Wi-Fi Battles, this is what made Zoroark useless cause it ruined the element of surprise with it's Illusion ability.

Making Uber Tier Pokemon unplayable on GTS Random Matchup in Gen V was a major letdown being exclusively made for VGC purposes only since they still don't want to move away from the traditional Double Battles format and go with Single Battles which I find more fun than Triple/Rotation Battles. Double Battles were great when they were first introduced in Gen III but it's gotten to a point with teams based around Weather is a very stagnant strategy that's been used so many times especially Trick Room which I still love. As much as I would want VGC formats to be also played in Single Battles format as much as Double Battles format it doesn't seem like it will ever change anytime soon.

It doesn't take the fun out of the main games for me because they're barely even the same thing, in my opinion. Competitive is much like chess or any other strategic game, where you play to outwit your opponent, whereas in the games, you play for the experience of the world and story. I enjoy both of those things, so my opinion or enjoyment of one rarely influences my opinion or enjoyment of the other.

When you put it that way I guess that makes me part of the minority that has a bit of pride in breeding for teams to do competitive battling and having the best of both worlds but the majority of Pokemon players don't want that when it's so time consuming, I can't say I really blame them yet at the same time the aspect of Competitive Battling in Pokemon almost feels like it's not worth it anymore compared to all those unofficial fan-games being made off the Pokemon franchise these days.

If Pokemon is going to make officially endorsed competitive battling more popular, they need to make it more accessible and more varied. The options in Gen IV were nice, but in Gen V they got really limited. And they only added the Wonder Launcher, which I never use because held items should be the only items usable in a battle of wits. Anyone can just use a Max Revive and call it a win. BW2 were at least a step up when it came to EV training, which I appreciated, but it's still incredibly tedious. They need to make that easier and faster, make IVs more controllable and visible, and make it so we can have 6-vs-6 auto-level-100 again.

Agreed, hopefully Nintendo/Game Freak understands this and implements it for XY in Gen VI.

 

[bacon]

I guess if you wait a couple of months for X and Y to come out, you'll get your wish for a year or so because it'll take a fair bit of time for simulator developers to accurately reproduce the game mechanics (unless they are very similar to BW).

 

[Card Slinger J]

It's not just the simulator developers accurately reproducing the game mechanics but also the graphics as well which they succeeded in Gen V so far with Pokemon Showdown, not sure about Pokemon-Online though cause I've hardly seen any people on YouTube playing it on there. The most famous PokeTubers I've seen prefer Showdown over Pokemon-Online as their #1 Pokemon Battle Simulator.

I don't think it will be much of a problem for the simulator developers to get the 3D Pokemon from Gen VI on the simulators with the technology we have today, sure they mastered the 2D Pokemon sprites from Gen V and previous Gens however regardless of the amount of time it takes to implement it, Online Battle Simulators will be the most convenient choice over standard Wi-Fi Battles on the actual games unless Wi-Fi Battling on the actual games is made to become less tedious than it actually is right now hopefully starting with Gen VI in XY.

 

[Frezgle]

I don't think it will be much of a problem for the simulator developers to get the 3D Pokemon from Gen VI on the simulators with the technology we have today, sure they mastered the 2D Pokemon sprites from Gen V and previous Gens

I'm not so sure about that.
2D animated sprites are very easy to reproduce in a standalone program because the only thing separating them from a non-animated sprite is more sprites. It's just a series of different sprites played in a certain pattern (though in the actual games, they seem to be stored as individual moving chunks). Exporting sprite data from an NDS ROM is rather easy at this point, but a sprite itself is still so simple that theoretically you could reproduce them all in MS Paint.
3D, however, is a whole different ballgame. You would need to figure out a way to export the model data and texture data from a 3DS ROM (something I'm not even sure is possible or not right now; I know we're a long way off from emulation of 3DS games) and then convert it to something that could be properly displayed in a battle simulator. Then you have the issue of dynamic lighting, all the different animations for idling/attacking/getting hit/etc... It would take a lot of work. So if it makes you feel any better, that will be a huge hurdle.
Though I suspect custom sprite art would be in the works as a backup plan :B

 

[Card Slinger J]

That doesn't really make me feel any better about all this because it's pretty much an inevitability that people will find a way to export model data and texture data from a 3DS ROM to convert into something that will be properly displayed on a Online Battle Simulator regardless If people stopped spending money on the actual games for Wi-Fi Battles when they got a Online Battle Simulator that does the job just as efficiently and is less tedious as in the actual games themselves. Give it about 2-3 years (maybe even longer) and maybe we'll have the technology capable of emulating 3DS games. It took us nearly a decade to emulate 8-bit and 16-bit games on our computers, smartphones, and tablets plus we probably already have the technology right now to emulate 32-bit, 64-bit, and Triple A games on those same devices as well.

As far as I'm concerned Nintendo/Game Freak are only cracking down on the people who use cheating devices on the actual Pokemon video games as they have no interest whatsoever in going after unofficial Online Battle Simulators even though people who use them have at least 1 copy of the actual games already so they aren't really losing any money out of it yet the actual games are hardly ever played compared to their unofficial online counterparts. It wasn't much of a problem before Gen IV since technology was very limited at the time but now that it's actually more advanced there's less of an interest in doing Wi-Fi Battles cause it's still tedious and doesn't match up to the kind of caliber that Online Simulators bring because the actual games by Nintendo/Game Freak unfortunately were purposely designed to be tedious whether or not the players who don't have the free time to do it like it or not.

 

[TokenDuelist]

I usually wifi battle with friends, and in the odd time - random online battles.

It really saddens me that people say they don't have enough time to play the games or make a team, all these excuses. Play them in your spare time, I'm sure you have some of it. If busy pokemon artists have the time to play the games and create a competitive team while still balancing work, then I'm sure many can too.

Even sneaking in 10-20 minutes of playing before bed could work in your favor.

There is absolutely no excuse for them to use the simulators, while I can see where they are useful, there are people who just forget the purpose of Pokemon, and that's what hurts them in the long run.

As far as I'm concerned, if all they do is use the simulators, their only real reason for not using the actual games is because there is clearly a difference. They are still in unfamiliar territory, they have to put actual effort into things. They may have experience playing with simulators, but if that's the only experience they have - They have no experience actually playing. RNGing your teams afterwards or using hacking tools that create "legit" pokemon does not count at all.

Which sadly seems to be the case for most people, the simulators should be a place to test your actual wi-fi teams, not replace them.

 

[Dork Void]

There is absolutely no excuse for them to use the simulators, while I can see where they are useful, there are people who just forget the purpose of Pokemon, and that's what hurts them in the long run.

The purpose of Pokemon, like pretty much every game, is to have fun. If they're having more fun playing on a simulator (or less un-fun), then they're playing Pokemon the right way.

The games provide something totally different than simulators; a story, a chance to actually train up and evolve Pokemon, and some other things. Some people like that; the Pokemon games are for them. Some people just like the pure strategy and competitiveness of battling with other people; simulators make that a lot easier. Some people play both as they find both fun. And so what if simulator users have no experience actually playing the Pokemon games? If that's not fun for them, why should it be a requirement to do something that is fun?

 

[Guts]

There is absolutely no excuse for them to use the simulators, while I can see where they are useful, there are people who just forget the purpose of Pokemon, and that's what hurts them in the long run.

"lol u r not TRU pokman battlr unless u grind 4 perfect stats for 349549302 days liek i do. lol get gud XDD."

Why do people make a big deal over fans who want a quicker and easier way to enjoy the competitive aspect of Pokemon? The way you're "supposed" to enjoy the game is whatever way you damn well please. I just find it so funny that smogonites and competitive battlers are called elitists by wi-fi users and "casuals", yet it's often the other way around.

 

[TokenDuelist]

There is absolutely no excuse for them to use the simulators, while I can see where they are useful, there are people who just forget the purpose of Pokemon, and that's what hurts them in the long run.

"lol u r not TRU pokman battlr unless u grind 4 perfect stats for 349549302 days liek i do. lol get gud XDD."

Why do people make a big deal over fans who want a quicker and easier way to enjoy the competitive aspect of Pokemon? The way you're "supposed" to enjoy the game is whatever way you damn well please. I just find it so funny that smogonites and competitive battlers are called elitists by wi-fi users and "casuals", yet it's often the other way around.

You do realize that is not what I'm saying right?

I meant playing in a more fair sense. I support the simulators as a practice tool, not a replacement.
I don't see smogonites as elitists and what-not though. In fact a lot of them seem fairly nice and have good advice to share. It's the ones however, that act like everything needs to be based on Smogon standards and act all snobbish or D/C on you if you use something "banned" by smogon in a casual match that give Smogon a bad name.I often reference smogon to get some ideas, but I don't treat it like a bible~

 

[Guts]

You do realize that is not what I'm saying right?

I meant playing in a more fair sense. I support the simulators as a practice tool, not a replacement.
I don't see smogonites as elitists and what-not though. In fact a lot of them seem fairly nice and have good advice to share. It's the ones however, that act like everything needs to be based on Smogon standards and act all snobbish or D/C on you if you use something "banned" by smogon in a casual match that give Smogon a bad name.I often reference smogon to get some ideas, but I don't treat it like a bible~

Explain what you mean by "playing in a more fair sense".

 

[TokenDuelist]

Using hacking tools that create "legit Pokemon" as a shortcut to getting strong Pokemon is a good example of not playing fair.

RNG is fair to some extent.

I just think it's not very fair to use the simulators but then use said tools to mimic their team and use them to play against others.

 

[Guts]

Using hacked Pokemon is unfair in a Wi-fi battle, sure. But I still don't understand why the simple use of something like Pokemon Showdown would be considered "unfair" to wi-fi players.

 

[TokenDuelist]

Using hacked Pokemon is unfair in a Wi-fi battle, sure. But I still don't understand why the simple use of something like Pokemon Showdown would be considered "unfair" to wi-fi players.

Oh I didn't mean to come across sounding like that's what I meant. I don't mean that at all.

 

[Guts]

Oh I didn't mean to come across sounding like that's what I meant. I don't mean that at all.

Ah, alright then. In any case, you shouldn't be looked down upon simply because you prefer one type of pokemon battling over another.

 

[TokenDuelist]

Oh I didn't mean to come across sounding like that's what I meant. I don't mean that at all.

Ah, alright then. In any case, you shouldn't be looked down upon simply because you prefer one type of pokemon battling over another.

Fair enough, I can understand where yer coming from c'B

 

[Card Slinger J]

the simulators should be a place to test your actual wi-fi teams, not replace them.

That's pretty much what Pokemon Competitive Battling has become, the Online Simulator itself actually replaced your actual Wi-Fi Teams on your 3DS/DS Lite game. Even though people shouldn't be looked down upon just because they prefer one type of Pokemon battling over another doesn't seem to matter anymore, the general consensus is clear that anyone these days that plays or used to play the Pokemon video games doesn't Wi-Fi Battle anymore.

Because there's a lack of interest in doing Pokemon Wi-Fi Battles, there's going to be less people interested in doing sanctioned VGC Tournaments because they're forced to breed a team the old fashioned way which is too tedious for them because they don't have the time to do it. Can't say I really blame them when VGC's has been pretty much the same Double Battles Format since the start of Gen IV, you'd think 6 on 6 Single Battles for VGC's would be allowed but nope.

The purpose of Pokemon, like pretty much every game, is to have fun. If they're having more fun playing on a simulator (or less un-fun), then they're playing Pokemon the right way.

But how does that constitute as playing Pokemon "the right way" when the value of the actual video games isn't worth it anymore? So in other words you're saying that doing Pokemon Wi-Fi Battles on the actual games regardless If you use an emulator to play it or not isn't considered playing Pokemon "the right way" because it's too tedious for those that don't have the time for it compared to those that do (like myself). If having more fun playing Pokemon means boycotting the actual games just to play the Online Simulators themselves, then I personally don't see how that's any fun at all.

 

[Frezgle]

If having more fun playing Pokemon means boycotting the actual games just to play the Online Simulators themselves, then I personally don't see how that's any fun at all.

There's no reason to boycott the games in order to use a simulator. I play both, and I buy each new game that comes out. Well... one of each pair of main series handheld games, I mean; I'm not that well-off financially :y
Anyway, when you have people that only use battle sims and don't play the games themselves, that's generally because they only like competitive battling. If I were to want to sit down and play a game of checkers, I wouldn't want to first have to go through a Checker Quest and earn pieces and etc. etc. I just wanna play some dang checkers. On the other side of the coin, you have people who only play the games and never touch the sims, because they enjoy the casual aspects more or they enjoy/have the time for training competitively viable Pokemon. Neither one of these groups of people is 'boycotting', except for maybe a small few. Of course, you have people using only emulation to play the games, but that's kinda beyond the scope of the discussion and it seems to be another small group anyways.

Imo, the only way to make everyone on every side of the issue happy is for Pokemon to release their own official battle-centric game with all the functionality of the unofficial simulators. Think Pokemon Stadium, but with mass online functionality (not just friend codes!!) and being able to build your team rather than being stuck with limited rental Pokemon. I'd buy that :U
I guess then you're still leaving out people who don't have whatever console that'd be released on but whatever

 

[Dork Void]

But how does that constitute as playing Pokemon "the right way" when the value of the actual video games isn't worth it anymore? So in other words you're saying that doing Pokemon Wi-Fi Battles on the actual games regardless If you use an emulator to play it or not isn't considered playing Pokemon "the right way" because it's too tedious for those that don't have the time for it compared to those that do (like myself). If having more fun playing Pokemon means boycotting the actual games just to play the Online Simulators themselves, then I personally don't see how that's any fun at all.

If you don't see how playing on simulators as opposed to the real games is any fun, then play on the real games. That doesn't mean that others don't find simulators more fun to play on. When did I ever say wi-fi battling on the games was wrong? I said that doing what you find most fun in Pokemon is right (as long as its not detrimental to another player's fun like bringing hacks into multiplayer).