alexmf2 said:
You should not need to be getting back Tynamos late game. Also, why can't you get the attackers you need with a second collector late game?
Dual Ball or Collector in Eels?
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You should not need to be getting back Tynamos late game. Also, why can't you get the attackers you need with a second collector late game?
iisnumber12 said:
You should definitely be getting Tynamo's late game. Your opponent should be doing their best to get rid of them, so you need to do your best to keep getting them back. And you can get them with a Collector, it just takes up your supporter of the turn, which can sometimes be killer if you also need a certain card such as Pluspower, Catcher, or Switch.
alexmf2 said:
Haha, wait. You are arguing that you can miss the turn 1 Collector and get no basics, but you are failing to acknowledge the same thing can happen with Dual Ball? It is possible to not draw into any Dual Balls, in fact, it is more likely to not hit a Dual Ball, then it is to not hit a Collector because you can't get Collector with Pokégear. Keep in mind you will have to hit two Dual Balls to match Collector's search power. Not to mention that when you have a Collector in your hand, there are no ifs and buts. You are stating some very ideal situations, yet you are failing to look over the equally likely, negative side of your argument. What if you play two Dual Balls and only hit 1 heads, or no heads at that? It is only slightly less likely than the situation that you are staging. As a matter of fact, there is a 6.25 percent chance of not hitting heads off of 2 Dual Balls. That is going to happen once in roughly 16 games. Also, if you are only able to hit one Dual Ball in a turn, there is a 25% chance you won't be getting any basics. That means this will happen first turn roughly 1 in 4 games. If you are going 8 rounds at a States, this alone could potential kick you out of top cut.
Collector is easier to access early in the game, does not require flips or ever so precious Junk Arms, and it gets more basics than Dual Ball. I really don't see how Dual Ball is better. On top of all of this, it is locked out by Vileplume and Gothitelle, so if you miss it turn 1 and go second, there is a chance you won't be getting basics out at any point in time during your match. Collectors being dead draws later in the game is not an issue for a a player that can effectively thin their deck. Not to mention, Dual Balls are almost just as bad when you are set up.
The best thing is for you just to test them both, and formulate your own opinions about the two. Both have pros and cons, and everyone has their personal preference. And by the way you posted the OP, it seems that you are looking for someone to tell you what to play, so just test both. Personally I play a 3/2 split of Collecter/Ball, and it has tested and played perfect for me. But like I said, that is just me.
Vulpix Yolk said:
Yes, but if you flip double tails on Dual Ball, it is a lot easier to recover than not starting Collector. You can use a Supporter, and usually get 1-2 basics, along with the chance of also starting another basic getting card in your original hand. I touched upon this point already.
alexmf2 said:
I don't understand this part of your argument. Playing a draw supporter doesn't guarantee you will get 1-2 basics that you actually want T1, or even basics at all since most decks only run ~9-11 total basics. And if you have to JA for a dual ball T1 after a PONT then you are turning a 6 card hand into a 3 card hand, which you can't always afford that early in the game just to maybe get 1-2 basics.
PS you can still use collector mid-late game. You might need to search out a mewtwo or terra for a revenge ko, or need to be able to drop 2 tynamos if you have a lone eel out. Most of your arguments are illogically one-sided and don't really even seem to make sense.
I prefer Collector. Just because with PokeGear 3.0, you have a decent chance of getting it. And it is spectacular Junk Arm fodder for late game. My problem with Dual Ball is it is so flippy, and you need to use 2 + 1 Junk Arm just to get the net gain that Collector automatically has 90% of the time.
And, with Tynamo you need to bench at least 2 at once, otherwise its Catcher bait, and you really don't want that. I suppose you can get by running Dual Ball if you have 4 Tynamo in your deck, but that is wasting space, and giving away free prizes.
I guess it boils down to Collector is more consistent, but Duall Ball is overall faster (doesn't use up your Supporter for the turn) but less consistent by far.
And, with Tynamo you need to bench at least 2 at once, otherwise its Catcher bait, and you really don't want that. I suppose you can get by running Dual Ball if you have 4 Tynamo in your deck, but that is wasting space, and giving away free prizes.
I guess it boils down to Collector is more consistent, but Duall Ball is overall faster (doesn't use up your Supporter for the turn) but less consistent by far.
For a deck with Stage 1 setup cards, and Tynamo's being easy knock outs, definitely going to have to go with Collector on this one.
Lets say you start with Thundurus and Dual Ball for one Tynamo. Now, maybe you can Level Ball for another Tynamo, but the most consistent setup is T1 Collector for 2/3 tynamos then use your Level Balls for Eelektriks. Dual Ball is good for T1 hitting decks like MTC where they just need that initial setup T1 and wasting a supporter for basics isn't an option.
Lets say you start with Thundurus and Dual Ball for one Tynamo. Now, maybe you can Level Ball for another Tynamo, but the most consistent setup is T1 Collector for 2/3 tynamos then use your Level Balls for Eelektriks. Dual Ball is good for T1 hitting decks like MTC where they just need that initial setup T1 and wasting a supporter for basics isn't an option.
Collector. Simply because it gets more pokemon and, though it is a Supporter never fails. Ol' reliable Collector. 
Plus, you don't have to waste (yes it is a waste Imo) junk arms on Dual Balls if you get one or if you get none. You need multiple Dual balls in a hand for a chance at 3-4 Pokemon while you are guaranteed 3 with one card (collector).
Plus, you don't have to waste (yes it is a waste Imo) junk arms on Dual Balls if you get one or if you get none. You need multiple Dual balls in a hand for a chance at 3-4 Pokemon while you are guaranteed 3 with one card (collector).
After DE, Dual ball will be the play.
Shaymin Lv.X said:
Why? How does one set change the fact that Collector is better than Dual Ball?
^ I agree. After DE, Collector will still be in format, and will still stand as a very close to or definitally is a staple in most decks. Collector (in certain decks) Outclasses Dual Ball, with its guarantee and you will never have to junk arm for it.
It really comes down to how lucky you are. If you get lucky with Dual Ball flips, than you can go ahead and run Dual Ball over Pokemon Collector. However, if you aren't such a lucky person with Dual Ball flips, run Pokemon Collector over Dual Ball.
If you really want my advice, I'd run Pokemon Collector in Eels. You'll be able to search more basics with this card, and you don't have to worry about flips. Yet, Dual Ball could work too. If you want to use draw supporters each turn, it is another reason why you could try Dual Ball. Pooka ran Dual Ball in his winning Eels deck in Illinois because he always wanted to use a draw supporter each turn. Not only that, but he happened to be a lucky guy with them as well (usually getting two heads each time).
If you really want my advice, I'd run Pokemon Collector in Eels. You'll be able to search more basics with this card, and you don't have to worry about flips. Yet, Dual Ball could work too. If you want to use draw supporters each turn, it is another reason why you could try Dual Ball. Pooka ran Dual Ball in his winning Eels deck in Illinois because he always wanted to use a draw supporter each turn. Not only that, but he happened to be a lucky guy with them as well (usually getting two heads each time).