Fakemon Competition- Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
bacon

bacon

!!!!!
Member
Before jumping to the third round, I think it's pretty important to evaluate what we have so far, and share suggestions as to how we can improve this competition. The main goals of this project are:

1) To create an entire Fakedex consisting of 101 Fakemon
2) To hold a sucessful, unbiased (as possible) competition almost entirely determined by public votes
3) To draw more artists into the Fan Creations forum

We can certainly have more goals than this, nothing wrong with ambition. But when I started this all, those three goals were pretty much what I had in mind.

So, use this thread to discuss:

-How we can achieve these goals
-Possible further goals
-Ways to increase interest
-Anything else you think might improve the competition
 
Well, I remember from last competition that most artists didn't like their work having entries they didn't agree on, and that their own dex entries should be included in the main competition. But since most people vote in the art competition for sheer talent, I think you should emphasize that you have to vote not only for artistic talent, but quality of the dex entry. That seems to be the only way we can compromise.
 
Well I first have to ask; Why were people so unimpressed by my creations?

If its because its not computer enhanced and all those super effects, then thats just not fair. My computer is old so I dont have that resorce open to me.

And you cant complain about them being similar to another pokemon because Scampy was it? His looks like the kricketune line.

Its pointness for me to enter the next one untill I understand what you guys are looking for...
 
shadoworganoid said:
Well I first have to ask; Why were people so unimpressed by my creations?

If its because its not computer enhanced and all those super effects, then thats just not fair. My computer is old so I don't have that resorce open to me.

And you cant complain about them being similar to another pokemon because Scampy was it? His looks like the kricketune line.

Its pointness for me to enter the next one untill I understand what you guys are looking for...
Click to expand...

That was Xous. Yes, I agree that it was unoriginal.

BUT. I didn't get ANY votes. So don't fret. Just try your best. I will be in the next round. My goal is to get atleast 1 vote. xD
 
Well, no, Im not calling his "unoriginal", but the only thing It has that mine doesnt have is computer effects..
 
we could POSSIBLY (i dont want any bashing >_>)
~ vote for pokemon requirements (types, etc)
~ brainstorm (post random fakemon to see what looks good)
~ come up with ONE GOOD IDEA then we all try to draw it
~ etc etc
just some of my ideas.
 
I don't think anyone is strictly at a disadvantage when it comes to not having access to art programs. Out of all the 6 winning Fakemon, only 1 was in any way computer edited, and to be honest I could have done a lot better leaving it as pencil drawn. Plus I actually think Xous had the most original idea (and should have won! sibsdkb), but I guess that is largely opinionated.

Although I think voting on a specific idea could be too restrictive for artists to work with, there definitely is something to be said for voting on particular types/build. For example, we end up voting on,

Fire/Psychic
Frail Build
3 part evolution line

At the moment I am just plucking out random types and lines for us to draw. I suppose voting on it could be somewhat interesting and more involved. Another thing to gather more interest would be movepool and stat votes, but that really requires a server on shoddy battle to test with (no, movepools and stats are something I just could not leave up to the artist). Maybe sprites of the winning entries too.
 
My entry set aside, i strongly think we need full grading criteria.
(ex)
on a point scale.

-how well does it fit the theme? 1-10 points.
-how original is it? 1-10
-Is it colored? 1-5
-Dex info provided?
-Stat info?
-Move pool?
-Size info?
-Overal quality of entry reflects time and effort. 1-10
Total:___


Now this may be a lot of criteria, however a good contest must have detailed rules and criteria.
It keeps it fair for all and not just, "oh, thats cool."
 
How about do Mystery Artists to eliminate bias? This is twice you've won in a row, scampy. I like how the Story Competitions have been running so far with that anyway.

dmaster out.
 
d master342 said:
How about do Mystery Artists to eliminate bias? This is twice you've won in a row, scampy. I like how the Story Competitions have been running so far with that anyway.

dmaster out.
Click to expand...

That won't work. Every one has a different style. You can notice Xous's and Scampy's style.

The dex is probably going to end up Scampy, Xous, Scampy, Xous, and so forth.
 
Or better yet, all scampy^.

But that is true. Xous and scampy have completely obvious styles...

dmaster out.
 
d master342 said:
How about do Mystery Artists to eliminate bias? This is twice you've won in a row, scampy. I like how the Story Competitions have been running so far with that anyway.

dmaster out.
Click to expand...

That is a good idea but a little note i'd like to make. Some of us can tell by the way the drawings are drawn that they are a specific persons. ;} but who knows, it could work that way.
 
I have to agree wit Shadoworganoid, we need a point scale that each voter fills out for the person they like, or for each entry, there are a lot of "IDK why I picked this person but I just liked it", there are just a couple of people who actually go out of their way to comment on everyone.

As far as anonymous entries, everyone has their own art style, you can tell what is Xous' (His watermark doesn't help but beside that), and you can tell what scampy's is, it won't stop the biased voting, but it will give the lower half of the entries a better chance, it will atleast stop the "I don't know who so and so is, so he won't get my vote" or Voting for friends, unless of coarse they told their friends to vote for the entry that is theirs. It may work for typing since there isn't ways to make your more appealing then writing a good story, but Art is some thing that appeals to ones eyes and brain.

Or just get Judges :F, but I'll play the "Trying to make Public voting better" game.
 
We don't need a point system. That will simply overcomplicate things. As this is a public vote (which is something I will not change, this will not even be up for discussion), every single voter will have to post their ratings for every single submission. How boring would that be? We would lose interest, which is the exact opposite of what we are aiming for here.

For reasons already stated, I don't think anonymous entries will work either.
 
I could be an artist for this, but I would have to do the next competition, whenever that is.
 
I just came up with a good, working idea. Whoever gets first place in a tournament, can't partake in the following tournament. It would make it so that one person can't just win every tourney *coughscampycough* and will give others a chance to win.
 
shadoworganoid said:
Well I first have to ask; Why were people so unimpressed by my creations?

If its because its not computer enhanced and all those super effects, then thats just not fair. My computer is old so I don't have that resorce open to me.

And you cant complain about them being similar to another pokemon because Scampy was it? His looks like the kricketune line.

Its pointness for me to enter the next one untill I understand what you guys are looking for...
Click to expand...

Though people will see that as whining ("why were people so unimpressed by my creations?"), your point still stands and I agree. There's definitely an advantage to using computer software to "draw" your Fakemon: the lines are smoother, the colors are crisper and more even, and overall it looks more professional. It's not like waving a magic wand though; Xous, The Assassin, and a couple of others used computers to create their fakemon, but they didn't win.

There will always be a bias towards good art in a competitions like this, especially when the voting process is based on the freedom of opinion. I think, as far as having a public vote goes, the current system is perfect; it's easy and the 3 vote requirement creates a more "balanced" distribution of votes.

Like Shadoworganoid points out, the problem is with fledgling and casual artists being no competition for the entries of the far more experienced artists. It's kind of silly to make an issue out of good artists dominating art competitions, but the problem is that the whole goal of this competition is to create a diverse an interesting Pokedex. It's not fair (and certainly not healthy for the pokedex) if a unique and well thought-out creation falls behind the dresser because it didn't look as pretty as the winner's.

And there's no way to fix that. It's simple and inevitable human bias. In order to have a free, convenient public vote, peoples' ability to express their opinions can't be obstructed. Perhaps some guidelines can be added to the first post giving some optional advice on how to make the most out of evaluating an entry, but for the most part there's nothing that can be done about people voting for the better looking drawings.

---

I don't know, disallowing the previous winner from participating in the following competition seems both unfair and a cop-out.
 
I would strongly suggest an initial competition for concept only, as scanned-in uncolored sketches (like that done by Dictator Dauntless for comp #2, or safariblade's original for comp #1),
followed by a competition to make final artwork and sprites for the pokemon line, and finished off by a competition for a name, stats, dex, and other information (voted on as a survey; post a vote for top 3 in each category, or just top 1 if there are few entries in the category). More than one entry per person should be allowed.

Human bias minimized; quality of output maximized. Fledgling artists get their creativity in; experienced artists spice it up.



I agree with Godzilla that the voting system is pretty much perfect, and that barring a winner from the next comp is an unfair cop-out.


It seems a bit overkill to make a contest for type requirements, etc for the next concept, but unwise to leave the whole decision to any specific person... The quality of picking at random is probably unsustainable in the long run...
So, I suggest a hybrid: a running thread where people (including scampy) can make type, etc suggestions and reasons for them (and comment on others'), and scampy picks out from that, for every competition.

I would like to see type combinations that have not been done yet. I am sure many other people are of similar sentiment.
 
I think Godzilla and Apophys have made some pretty excellent points. Ultimately, my main concern is that some aspects of the current competition lead to heavy bias, which does indeed have a negative effect on the quality of the final products, as people are more likely to vote for their favourite art, not their favourite concept (this is more or less inevitable and something I doubt we can change).

As this is all largely experimental, we should be testing out new ideas- even if said ideas do not work, we can always revert back to old ideas that were more effective. I think there is definitely something to be said for the two seperate competitions (Concept sketch comp-> Final art comp), but again I feel as though we would experience a bias in votes towards the neater looking sketches. However, as this bias would most likely be less extreme than what we have currently seen with Fakemon competitions #1 and #2, I think it's definitely something we should try.

Another thing I would like to touch upon is an issue that was raised before, the vote on Names and Dex entries. This is something I feel definitely needs to be tested. Perhaps the name is a bit too personal, but I feel as though there is nothing wrong with people voting on Dex entries- they are more or less remixes of the information people have already given their Fakemon. For example, let's use Odonapup as an example:

http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=58189&pid=1222909#pid1222909

So let's imagine that Zilla didn't post his dex entries, but still had all that detailed information about his Fakemon. With this quantity of information to go by, I think we could easily hold a dex entry competition without any other information being "invented" by those typing the entries. What I am saying here is that the artists original ideas are left intact, and that we vote on the best dex entry built from these original ideas. That way, an interesting concept of a Fakemon does not get partnered with a poorly phrased dex entry.

One thing I will make soon is the Fakedex thread itself. This will list all current Fakemon we have in our set, blank spaces reserved for future entries, etc. This thread will also serve as a place for suggestions on what kind of competitions we will hold in the future (like, you would post ideas of what you would want to see in future comps).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top