Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Hawlucha)

Machamp The Champion

Machamp The Champion

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This thread is used for all competitive discussion on Fighting variants, including Crobat, Garbodor, Machamp, and anything else revolving around Landorus EX and Hawlucha. This includes strategies, playstyles, and techs.

You may post decklists here, but only as a means to add to the discussion. If you're looking for advice on your list, post in the Deck Garage.

Fighting/Crobat Skeleton List:

Pokémon: 17
  • 3 Hawlucha FFI
  • 2 Landorus EX
  • 1 Lucario EX
  • 3 Crobat PHF
  • 4 Golbat PHF
  • 4 Zubat PLS
Trainers: 27
  • 4 Professor Juniper
  • 4 N
  • 2 Colress
  • 2 Lysandre
  • 3 VS Seeker
  • 4 Ultra Ball
  • 1 Repeat Ball
  • 3 Muscle Band
  • 1 Computer Search
  • 3 Fighting Stadium
Energy: 10
  • 6 Fighting Energy
  • 4 Strong Energy
Open Spots: 6

Strategy:
The strategy is quite simple: Deal as much damage as possible early on with Landorus EX, Hawlucha, and Lucario EX, while boosting their damage with Crobat, Golbat, Muscle Band, Strong Energy, and Fighting Stadium. Super Scoop Up and Scoop Up Cyclone are used both to pick up a Crobat and reuse its ability, and to heal off a damaged EX. Not much more than that. Just deal lots of damage quickly through spread and Crobat. This deck can run into problems with its low damage cap, and healing cards. Decks that deal much higher damage can take you out before you have time to respond, and healing can remove all the hard work you've done by sniping something with Golbat, Crobat and Hammerhead. But this decks can overwhelm countless decks with its crazy speed and damage.


Good Additions:
  • Another Landorus EX
  • Miltank FLF
  • Super Scoop Up
  • Korrina and Professor's Letter
  • Scoop Up Cyclone
  • Silent Lab
  • AZ
  • Another Repeat Ball

Fighting/Garbodor Skeleton List:

Pokémon: 11
  • 3 Landorus EX
  • 3 Hawlucha FFI
  • 1 Lucario EX
  • 2 Garbodor DRX
  • 2 Trubbish DRX
Trainers: 31
  • 4 Professor Juniper
  • 4 N
  • 3 Korrina
  • 1 Colress
  • 2 Lysandre
  • 3 VS Seeker
  • 4 Muscle Band
  • 3 Ultra Ball
  • 2 Switch
  • 2 Float Stone
  • 1 Professor’s Letter
  • 1 Computer Search
  • 3 Fighting Stadium
Energy: 10
  • 6 Fighting Energy
  • 4 Strong Energy
Open Spots: 6

Strategy:
Similar to the Crobat version, Fighting/Garbodor's goal is just to deal lots of damage quickly. With Muscle Band, Strong Energy and Fighting Stadium your big basic Pokemon can overwhelm your opponent very quickly. This deck has the added bonus of Garbodor, who's Garbotoxin ability shuts down a lot of popular decks, such as Aromatisse, Bronzong and Crobat, and shuts down some other miscellaneous abilities, such as Rush In or Stellar Guidance. It's main issue is its weak damage output. Some decks can just overpower you with their big damage, and you have no great responses for it. Overall, Garbodor can give you an edge over a lot of decks, and the deck has more space than the Crobat version, giving you more consistency. Never something to complain about.


Good Additions:
  • Landorus FFI
  • Terrakion NV
  • Mewtwo EX and Double Colorless
  • Seismitoad EX and Double Colorless
  • Energy Switch
  • Max Potion or Super Scoop Up
 
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RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

This deck has a lot of variations and I think they're pretty good in this format with the insane Fighting support. I think the most popular and the best version is Landorus EX/Lucario/Garbodor/Seismitoad/Mewtwo or similar things, with the Landorus EX/BabyLando/Lucario/Hawlucha/Garbodor variant or similar things also being popular. I have a couple lists to add but they are not extensively tested although I think they are good.

http://www2.bebessearch.com/Pokedex/DecklistShare.aspx?id=85659900&key=1385104354

http://www2.bebessearch.com/Pokedex/DecklistShare.aspx?id=1372341951&key=464588073
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Machamp is also a good one. I've had Landorus (baby) hitting for 120 for a single fighting. Even basic Machops can do some decent damage with the right set up. Korrina for Rare Candy/Machamp takes a lot of the hassle away from running a stage 2 line.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

I wish Machamp decks had their own separate thread honestly, though I realize that's not a realistic expectation. Machamp is far inferior to the other Fighting builds. Korrina is so strong because of the pokemon search effect in addition to grabbing an item for a combo and such. Machamp hogs your uses of Korrina and makes the deck super clunky. It's just a bad deck. I would be surprised if it top 4'd a regionals in October, but since LCs are LCs and a lot of Cities aren't too competitive Machamp might make a splash there.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Another strategy, Focus Sash. The idea, use this on weak one prize attackers to get a favorable prize trade. Nornally, they'd be easy prizes, but focus sash prevents that, if not makes them use more effort than normal to get a one prize KO. Hawlucha is a good target since you can hit EXes for 100 if you have strong energy and fighting stadium (and since you're using no EXes, there is no drawback to using the stadium). Another one is Lucario PLS (Hurricane Kick). An extra turn to use Hurricane Kick late game could be the difference between a win and a loss. You could also try Lucario LT because it does have a rocky helmet like effect to add insult to injury (or injury to insult).

Machamp would also be good in that deck too.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

I thought of that too and I like the idea but the problem is Startling Megaphone, which is way too popular for Sash to be viable.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

grantm1999 said:
I thought of that too and I like the idea but the problem is Startling Megaphone, which is way too popular for Sash to be viable.
Click to expand...

I just run focus sash with garbodor. It's not tested by me much but I would think it would work. The real test will be regionals. I also like this with M lucario. Once again it hasn't been tested that much by me but I personally think 140 to 220 for three (maybe more with machamp and/or forth strong energy) is to good to pass up on.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

A couple of days ago, I faced a deck using Landorus with Dusknoir. Both times, my opponent won by taking four prizes at once. Combined with lasers/Virbank, this is an evil strategy.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Mwahhaha. Try Virizion, Garbodor, Slurpuff, full heal and/or Pokémon Center Lady.
Edit: I forget to mention sparkling robe.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Is the variant with machamp and dusknoir viable?
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

I'm not sure if I'd play Dusknoir and Machamp in the same deck, but pairing Landorus with either one has provided good results.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

I haven't seen much success with Landorus and Dusknoir together, though I can understand the synergy between the two cards. Machamp is the be3tter option of thsoe two. I actually had a pretty good struggle with a Lucario/ Machamp deck last night at League. I ended up winning, but it was pretty close. This particular player also ran Miltank as a tech and one-prize attacker, which with Machamp in play can squeeze out a quick 80 damage for one energy (100 with Muscle Band).

My personal deck incorperates DCE, Mewtwo-EX and Seismitoad-EX, so it's not exactly a straight Fighting. It's more of a hybrid between Fighting and a traditional Big Basics / Garbodor deck. This is also a pretty interesting combination, as by running a variety of attackers I have better coverage, and since they use DCE I'm not really sacrificing consistency. My usual tactic is to use Seismitoad-EX and Hawlucha to slow down my opponent and get damage out in the early game, while powering up Landorus and Mewtwo to hit hard later on and finish things off. Lucario-EX has three pretty cool attacks and can easily take advantage of Fightint's support, and while it's certainly worthy of competitive play, I'm afraid to play something that a Mewtwo can easily one-shot.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Is the deck with lucario/machamp/landorus still viable? How it goes in the metagame?
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

rauber said:
Is the deck with lucario/machamp/landorus still viable? how it goes in the metagame?
Click to expand...
It's ok but the Garbodor version is faster and more versatile. The aim of the deck isn't to go for OHKOs anyways, so Machamp isn't really needed. All you need for a 2HKO on most EX Pokemon is a Strong Energy, Muscle Band, and the Fighting Stadium/LaserBank on LandorusEX/LucarioEX.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

I haven't played Machamp in a while, but if I had to guess, I'd say it's pretty darn good (especially with all the ridiculous support fighting pokemon get).
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

What would you say that makes the machamp variant worse?

Is this deck gonna fall with phantom forces coming or it will stay tier 1?
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Machamp can take longer to set up, fighting decks are good at hitting 2 hit knock outs and machamp ends up changing the math.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

I think there's a lot going against this deck with the release of Phantom Forces. I think at this point eeveryone is in agreement that it's a disctinct deck from Donphan, so I'm not going to talk about that deck in this post. While there's nothing in the new set that outright kills Fighting, the Flare tools, the reprint of Enhanced Hammer, and Xerosic will certainly not be kind to it. Head Ringerr will become especially annoying, as the deck relies heavily on Pokemon-EX, has a focus on fast, low-cost attacks, and lacks energy acceleration. Jamming Net also removes a pretty critical 40 damage (-20 from the active and from a benched) from Hammerhead, further weakening Landorus. For varients running Seismitoad for disruption, Xerosic lets the opponent remove precious DCE, and tools from Garbodor even under item lock.

Still, I can't see Fighting varients dying off completely. Landuros and Lucario both have great attacks, and the bonuses from Strong Energy, Fighting Stadium and Muscle Band add up quickly. Lanorus is expecially notable because Hammerhead can pick off benched Robo Substitutes before they become active and start getting annoying. It's also a hard counter to M-Manectric, so if that gets popular in your area, Fighting is a deck to consider. Finally, Lysandre's Trump Card helps this deck a lot as well. Being able to recycle recources like Strong Energy, Lasers, etc, allows you to play more aggressively with these cards, as you can get them back before the late-game.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

My Little Keldeo said:
I think there's a lot going against this deck with the release of Phantom Forces. I think at this point eeveryone is in agreement that it's a disctinct deck from Donphan, so I'm not going to talk about that deck in this post. While there's nothing in the new set that outright kills Fighting, the Flare tools, the reprint of Enhanced Hammer, and Xerosic will certainly not be kind to it. Head Ringerr will become especially annoying, as the deck relies heavily on Pokemon-EX, has a focus on fast, low-cost attacks, and lacks energy acceleration. Jamming Net also removes a pretty critical 40 damage (-20 from the active and from a benched) from Hammerhead, further weakening Landorus. For varients running Seismitoad for disruption, Xerosic lets the opponent remove precious DCE, and tools from Garbodor even under item lock.

Still, I can't see Fighting varients dying off completely. Landuros and Lucario both have great attacks, and the bonuses from Strong Energy, Fighting Stadium and Muscle Band add up quickly. Lanorus is expecially notable because Hammerhead can pick off benched Robo Substitutes before they become active and start getting annoying. It's also a hard counter to M-Manectric, so if that gets popular in your area, Fighting is a deck to consider. Finally, Lysandre's Trump Card helps this deck a lot as well. Being able to recycle recources like Strong Energy, Lasers, etc, allows you to play more aggressively with these cards, as you can get them back before the late-game.
Click to expand...

*sarcasm*

Wow. Did you see the downgrade of this deck's tier?
*/sarcasm*

^ Anyway, I know of one thing in the new set, although it requires a card from another expansion to pull off: If a Shadow Circle pops out as an active Stadium, then prepare to not see the weakness application in damage calcs, and the effect combines with M-Manectric-ex and Yveltal-ex to form the Fighting deck's Achilles' heel: Due to zero retreat cost for M-Manectric, be prepared for a Yveltal-ex Evil Ball finish to a Lucario-ex forced in by Lysandre/Catcher, or even Landorus-ex if he stays in, after all of M-Manectric's "scoop energy" attachments to Yveltal-ex, and 1 dce attachment to that same Yveltal-ex, whether that finish comes in one hit due to Muscle Band and 2 Energies on Lucario-ex with 5 energy on Yveltal-ex for 14 damage counters before the additional 20 implied from Yveltal-ex's attack text and the 20 from Muscle Band, or after hypnotoxic damage for 2 "transition" turns, or in simple terms, 10 between-turns poison damage going into the opponent's turn, and 10 more between-turns poison damage going out of the opponent's turn...

^ Just because a deck is weak to the Fists, although I doubted M-Manectric would last against the Fists until now, does not mean there are no ways or cards that could change my opinion on that regard. And in this case, there is one card that changed such opinion: Shadow Circle, and when that is combined with M-Manectric's attack cost, which is one Lightning energy plus one of any energy type, since that any energy type can be darkness energy, bye-bye, Fist weakness: You are now outclassed... And there is no ex and no fist-type pokemon in this deck, not even Lucario, Landorus, or others, that can change it's tier post-M-Manectric-ex introduction into the game, and yet, in terms of other possible opponent builds vs. this Fists deck...
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

So this deck is gone? Are there any other fighting variants that can pull throught in the future?
 
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