Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Hawlucha)

RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Gone? Absolutely not. But it's going to have to resort to new builds and stratevies to perform well in the competitive scene. With all the Psychic support, Lucario-EX is a pretty risky play, and Landorus is weak to Seismitoad; these were the two core attackers in Fighting. I still believe they have a place in the format, but relying heavily on them will prove risky due to weaknesses and the Flare Hyper gear. Conversely, as Fighting lacks energy acceleration other than Landorus, a Hyper Gear could be played to slow the opponent down.

Some alternative attack options that Fighting decks could explore (this is all Theorymon with no testing at the time of posting):

Hawlucha: has been used successfully in several Fighting / Garb builds, including my own. The 70 HP is a drawback, but being able to rack up up to 120 damage on an EX for one energy is notable. It also only gives up one prize. As a basic this should be a better attack option than Dugrio. Garbodor negates Shining Spirit, allowing Hawlucha to hit for weakness.

Terrakion NVI/ LTR: I've seen a small number of decks run this. Not a bad card by any means, but a little slow for most tastes. 90 Damage for two energy (before factoring in Strong Energy, Muscle Band, Fighting Stadium) is tempting.

Tyrantrum: A nion-EX that can do 150 damage to a target with special energy (and what decks don't run special energy these days?). Also has a bulky 150 HP. The drawback is that you need to use Jaw Fossil or Fossil Researcher to bring out Tyrunts. The former is unreliable, and the latter uses up your supporter for the turn; not playing draw enough support in the early game can set you behind. I still see massive potential in Tyrantrum though.

Lucario PLS: Hurricane kick does 60 damage plust 30 more for each prize your opponent has taken. Interestingly it can be turned into a dual Fighting/Metal type by attacking a Metal energy. Sadly the energy cost is kind of awkward. I saw this card used with KlinKlang last year, but I don't see it working as anything more than a tech 2-2 line at most.

M-Manectric-EX: While it's not a Fighting Pokemon itself, its attack can reattach discarded energies, and could possibly be used in conjuction with Landorus-EX to make Land's Judgements more likely.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

rauber said:
so this deck is gone? Are there any other fighting variants that can pull throught in the future?

It won't be gone: No deck 100% disappears, but it can be played less than it was in the past, with players shifting away from it as "no longer competitively useful" and "outdated by other builds", but there's always at least one person that sticks to a particular deck, and ignores their peers in the process. But as long as there's at least one player playing this deck, it will never go away completely, if only less commonly that it was in the past...
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

but what changes would be most recomended to keep this deck competitive in the future? i started building it now and i dont want to waste money.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

rauber said:
but what changes would be most recomended to keep this deck competitive in the future? i started building it now and i dont want to waste money.

Recommended competitive changes stated above my previous post in topic. In case you don't want to scroll back up, here it is:

My Little Keldeo said:
Gone? Absolutely not. But it's going to have to resort to new builds and stratevies to perform well in the competitive scene. With all the Psychic support, Lucario-EX is a pretty risky play, and Landorus is weak to Seismitoad; these were the two core attackers in Fighting. I still believe they have a place in the format, but relying heavily on them will prove risky due to weaknesses and the Flare Hyper gear. Conversely, as Fighting lacks energy acceleration other than Landorus, a Hyper Gear could be played to slow the opponent down.

Some alternative attack options that Fighting decks could explore (this is all Theorymon with no testing at the time of posting):

Hawlucha: has been used successfully in several Fighting / Garb builds, including my own. The 70 HP is a drawback, but being able to rack up up to 120 damage on an EX for one energy is notable. It also only gives up one prize. As a basic this should be a better attack option than Dugrio. Garbodor negates Shining Spirit, allowing Hawlucha to hit for weakness.

Terrakion NVI/ LTR: I've seen a small number of decks run this. Not a bad card by any means, but a little slow for most tastes. 90 Damage for two energy (before factoring in Strong Energy, Muscle Band, Fighting Stadium) is tempting.

Tyrantrum: A nion-EX that can do 150 damage to a target with special energy (and what decks don't run special energy these days?). Also has a bulky 150 HP. The drawback is that you need to use Jaw Fossil or Fossil Researcher to bring out Tyrunts. The former is unreliable, and the latter uses up your supporter for the turn; not playing draw enough support in the early game can set you behind. I still see massive potential in Tyrantrum though.

Lucario PLS: Hurricane kick does 60 damage plust 30 more for each prize your opponent has taken. Interestingly it can be turned into a dual Fighting/Metal type by attacking a Metal energy. Sadly the energy cost is kind of awkward. I saw this card used with KlinKlang last year, but I don't see it working as anything more than a tech 2-2 line at most.

M-Manectric-EX: While it's not a Fighting Pokemon itself, its attack can reattach discarded energies, and could possibly be used in conjuction with Landorus-EX to make Land's Judgements more likely.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

So any version that has lucario, landorus or machamp doesn't have a way to combat a post phantom forces meta?
no added tech or line that can ease the match ups for them?
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Besides what hbk said, how should a variant of this deck for 2015 work? I started building the deck but i dont want to lose the money invested
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

rauber said:
Besides what hbk said, how should a variant of this deck for 2015 work? I started building the deck but i dont want to lose the money invested

For the current format, Lucario EX, Landorus EX, Landorus FFI, and Hawlucha are all good cards to play. If you're looking to play this deck for another year or 2, investing in Landorus EX may not be a great idea, but the other 3 cards are still excellent.

As for the rest of the deck, I don't think the Garbodor version is all that great, nor is the straight Fighting variant. It helps against Pyroar, Aromatisse, and a little bit against Donphan, but there are better variants you can play to counter those match ups. Against every other deck though, Garbodor isn't very useful. Straight Fighting just doesn't have any perks to it. You have so much space that you might as well put something else in there. The 2 variants I do like are Machamp and Drifblim.

Machamp allows you to get knock outs much easier (which makes Aromatisse a pretty easy match up), and it's great for killing Pyroar, Donphan, and Sigilyph.

Drifblim can kill the same things Machamp can, but helps even more against Donphan, and it's only a Stage 1, so you can fit in more useful cards. Drifblim is an older card, but it's pretty cheap (3 bucks), so it's not a big investment.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Any ideas pf what a machamp deck would look like? What are its needs?
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Yeah, I've found that removing Garbodor and lasers allows more room for other things; enhanced hammers, fighting stadium, Drifblim, and Terrakion. Here's my Pokemon lineup for a deck I built.

2 Landorus EX
2 Lucario EX
2 Hawlucha
1 Terrakion
1 Landorus (FF)
1 Dedenne
1 Mega Lucario EX
2-2 Drifblim (Shadow Steel)

I like it a lot better than Garbodor.

EDIT: Plasma Blast Drifblim is too situational.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Is this drifblim variant good? Is it better than the machamp variant?
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Personally, I am running this deck for Cities and I run both Drifblim and Garbodor. I use Fighting Stadium over Laserbank and I somehow found a way to incorporate Enhanced Hammer and Target Whistle. Target Whistle is great in Landorus EX because it helps with the Night March matchup. After you KO a Joltik and they promote a new one. On your following turn you can target whistle and get a double KO. Xerosic also helps this deck greatly because it can remove your own tools. Including the Team Flare cards.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

So is this variant the best for 2015, i kind of wanna know how the fighting decks will work on 2015
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

I don't know about the best, but I think it's definitely tier one.
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

This is one of those decks where I wonder if going second is better. It can allow for some instant pressure (especially if you start Hawlucha against an EX), but the last couple of games I played, I went second and lost (against VirGen).
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

What would be the counters we are going need to check?
 
RE: Fighting Variants (Landorus EX / Lucario EX)

Fighting Resistant Pokemon can be a pain. For those matchups, I play a Dedenne FF, who can KO a Lugia EX or Yveltal EX with a silver bangle (assuming they have 3 energies attached). I also play a Mega Lucario for the Pyroar Matchup. However, I find that the Drifblim/Enhanced Hammer combo has covered me in so many matchups. A well timed enhanced hammer alone can win you the game (play it on one of their benched Pokemon before taking a KO on their active) and Drifblim is such a cheap attacker and a good answer to Mewtwo or Deoxys. (I think I'll post my decklist later tonight in deck garage)
 
Any ideas if the primal clash cards or any other cards can help the deck now? What would be improvements can be done in 2015 with new cards and a new metagame?
 
^

Fighting Pokemon get a lot from this set.

-Groudon and it's primal look promising. Groudon on it's own can OHKO things with the help of some strong energy. It's primal has huge HP + built in protection from trainers which should make it tough to KO (especially with weakness policy). Celebi EX or the upcoming Memory Shrine could be played to give Primal Groudon more variety in it's attacks.

-Multi Strike Medicham should be ridiculous with the fighting support. With the help of damage boosters, you could be hitting for ridiculous amounts. This is another card that could combo with Celeibi EX or Memory Shrine to be able to attack for one energy.

-Hippodowdon could be good. It can hit for reasonable damage while protecting itself from EXes. 130HP means it won't be an easy prize. Though hammers could ruin your day.

-Rhyperior. Big HP, defensive ability that stacks, and the a Barrier ancient trait provides protection against lasers and hammers, things which would normally ruin your day. It's attack, at the very least, should be able to 2hko things and you never know what crucial card you could discard from the top of their deck.

-Maxie's Hidden Trick. One of the few cards which lets you cheat the evolution rule while simultaneously refilling your hand. At the very least, a good one of for fighting decks.

-Scorching Earth: While I think fire decks benefit from this more, it can be used in fighting decks. Korrina can grab professors letter and you still get your energy, a pokemon, and a couple of cards. You could also get energy in the discard pile to put back in play with Landorus FF. You'll just have to decide whether you want to run this, fighting stadium, or both.

I should also note that the barrier ancient trait protects your tools from Xerosic and M Phone so you can play things like weakness policy (or even rock guard or life due) without fear. It's also safe from being Lysandre's active or forced back with escape rope.
 
Having just won a rather large (at least 60 people I think) Cities with "Fighting Fusion" and seeing an uptick in people playing Fighting decks, I think they're on the rise. My particular version ran Garbodor, but even without that I think these aggressive decks can do a good job trading prizes with Aromatisse. As long as you don't use Landorus against it, you can even outdo Seismitoad's damage output since you can still drop Strong Energy/ Fighting Stadiums even while Item locked. We'll need to see more results before giving Fighting a "promotion," but I do feel it's making a comeback.
 
I'm going to test Crobat / Fighting stuff. Crobat lets this deck actually OHKO and helps a lot against Donphan. The deck seems pretty cool.
 
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