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Garchomp/Altaria (Fight Song Deck) BW-on FINAL BUILD
- Thread starter terrynum1
- Start date
RE: Garchomp/Altaria (Fight Song Deck) BW-on
-1 Random Receiver or Level Ball for a Pokemon Catcher
-2 Max Potion you do not need because everything in the deck gets one shot.
-2 Pokemon Communication you do not need because you have Gabite to search for your dragons.
+ 1 Cheren
+ 3 Emolga (DE) With your build you have a major issue and that is the basics. your important basics are your starters. You don't want them to be your starters because they get one shot too easily. This is why the call for family Emolga is needed. Emolga also one shots Swablu in a mirrored match.
+1 Pokemon Catcher You need to catch out as many vulnerable Pokemon as possible as fast as possible.
Try this out and see if you have a better constancy and get back to me if it works.
-1 Random Receiver or Level Ball for a Pokemon Catcher
-2 Max Potion you do not need because everything in the deck gets one shot.
-2 Pokemon Communication you do not need because you have Gabite to search for your dragons.
+ 1 Cheren
+ 3 Emolga (DE) With your build you have a major issue and that is the basics. your important basics are your starters. You don't want them to be your starters because they get one shot too easily. This is why the call for family Emolga is needed. Emolga also one shots Swablu in a mirrored match.
+1 Pokemon Catcher You need to catch out as many vulnerable Pokemon as possible as fast as possible.
Try this out and see if you have a better constancy and get back to me if it works.
RE: Garchomp/Altaria (Fight Song Deck) BW-on
Have any of you tested the deck without Rare Candy (using a 4-4-4 Garchomp and 4-4 Altaria line)?
If so, what are your thoughts? I've been testing it a bit (key word: bit) and because Dragon Call/Emolga set the deck up so quickly, I've found that Rare Candy is usually a dead card/draw.
Have any of you tested the deck without Rare Candy (using a 4-4-4 Garchomp and 4-4 Altaria line)?
If so, what are your thoughts? I've been testing it a bit (key word: bit) and because Dragon Call/Emolga set the deck up so quickly, I've found that Rare Candy is usually a dead card/draw.
RE: Garchomp/Altaria (Fight Song Deck) BW-on
Thanks for the confirmation! So far I've prefered the extra Pokemon and their effects (Dragon Call/Call For Family) combined with Level Ball as opposed to using Rare Candy. However I could see it working virtually the same either way. The benefit of having more Pokemon is that you can pull them out of the discard using Super Rod/Revive. The drawback would be the extra Pokemon themselves becoming dead draws late game.
So many possibilities!
terrynum1 said:
Thanks for the confirmation! So far I've prefered the extra Pokemon and their effects (Dragon Call/Call For Family) combined with Level Ball as opposed to using Rare Candy. However I could see it working virtually the same either way. The benefit of having more Pokemon is that you can pull them out of the discard using Super Rod/Revive. The drawback would be the extra Pokemon themselves becoming dead draws late game.
So many possibilities!
RE: Garchomp/Altaria (Fight Song Deck) BW-on
Communications are in there for extra search for Swablus and stuff since they aren't {DRG}, and it's nice to put back a Garchomp before you Juniper (someone N'd me into a Juniper, two Garchomps, and BOTH Super Rods), but they aren't too important. I'll probably at least take those out for the Catcher and Cheren. I've been testing the list with two Emolga for two Communications, but I think I want to try the list I posted with an extra Catcher, Cheren, and something else useful in exchange for the Plus Powers. The way I see it, Plus Power and Max Potion both serve the same purpose: to help you get ahead in the prize trade. I'd like to know what all OHKO's Garchomp. Of course, Zekrom EX and {DRG}'s, but normal Zekrom, Tornadus, Thundurus, Darkrai, Terrakion don't. It turns all of those 2HKO's into 3HKO's. I'd probably retreat to the Bench for prize denial anyway.
I've tried 4-4-4 with 4-3 and 2-3 Rare Candy. I found it wasn't really necessary, though, and I needed to make room for other things. I still would want to have the possibility of a T2 Garchomp.
terrynum1 said:
Communications are in there for extra search for Swablus and stuff since they aren't {DRG}, and it's nice to put back a Garchomp before you Juniper (someone N'd me into a Juniper, two Garchomps, and BOTH Super Rods), but they aren't too important. I'll probably at least take those out for the Catcher and Cheren. I've been testing the list with two Emolga for two Communications, but I think I want to try the list I posted with an extra Catcher, Cheren, and something else useful in exchange for the Plus Powers. The way I see it, Plus Power and Max Potion both serve the same purpose: to help you get ahead in the prize trade. I'd like to know what all OHKO's Garchomp. Of course, Zekrom EX and {DRG}'s, but normal Zekrom, Tornadus, Thundurus, Darkrai, Terrakion don't. It turns all of those 2HKO's into 3HKO's. I'd probably retreat to the Bench for prize denial anyway.
Secret Pikachu said:
I've tried 4-4-4 with 4-3 and 2-3 Rare Candy. I found it wasn't really necessary, though, and I needed to make room for other things. I still would want to have the possibility of a T2 Garchomp.
You run Terrakion to deal with Darkrai, but you don't run plus powers. Add 2 Pluspowers or drop terrakion all together. This deck crumbles like crazy if you start with Terrakion and it doesn't increase your chances of winning against any relevant deck. You're better off with an energy efficient attacker like Stunfisk instead. Starting with him actually isn't the worst thing in the world against Eel variants.
JimboJumbo said:
My original build ran plus power and was not as consistent. Terrakion is also not a tech against Darkrai. It is used as a 90 attacker and to retaliate after an opponent catchers out an Alteria. Terrakion is only a tec and one does not need to run it with plus power.
- 2 terakion
-1 water
+2 emolga
+1 tool scrapper
Terakion CAN be good against hydriegon/darkrai, the problem is it most likely runs eviolite making terakion kind of useless unless you run tool scrapper which comes in handy with other deck matchups as well. Hydriegon/darkrai matchups should be focused on catchering the hydriegon as much as possible until its completely whipped out from their field. Leaving you with an easy way for a 2KO against the darkrai. Plus, 4 emolga is key for having a good start with this deck. Hope I helped.
-1 water
+2 emolga
+1 tool scrapper
Terakion CAN be good against hydriegon/darkrai, the problem is it most likely runs eviolite making terakion kind of useless unless you run tool scrapper which comes in handy with other deck matchups as well. Hydriegon/darkrai matchups should be focused on catchering the hydriegon as much as possible until its completely whipped out from their field. Leaving you with an easy way for a 2KO against the darkrai. Plus, 4 emolga is key for having a good start with this deck. Hope I helped.
Running Terrakion with just 2 switches is risky. I can see scenarios where you will be stuck with a Terrakion up front until it gets KO'd. It may have helped you win one game in your play testing but I believe in most games it will be more of a liability than a boon. You are better off with 2 Tool Scrappers instead of two Terrakions.
Mora said:
Thanks Mora, your one of the only people that actually knows how to play this build of the deck.
NOTE: again to everyone else Terrakion is a tech for a surprise ko it has no other purpose and your chances of stating with are very low. Another note i rather start with Terrakion and take my time to set up my Garchomps and Alterias instead of giving my opponent a free Gible or Swablu as a prize. Plus alot of players will catcher out a Gible or Swablu even if one starts with Terrakion which puts Terrakion back on your bench. If they ko your Gible or Swablu you then can retaliate second turn to ko something so you do not fall to far behind in prizes.
terrynum1 said:
I may put Terrakion in my list. At first I was against it because it slowed the deck down and other stuff you've probably heard a million times, but I think it would really help the Raikou matchup. They can't just go sniping Altarias at will. I may try this when I get a chance. What are your thoughts on Terrakion and Switch without Energy Switch, the idea being only lay down Terrakion with an energy attachment so that his presence deters Altaria sniping/Catchering with Darkrai.
Mora said:
I may put Terrakion in my list. At first I was against it because it slowed the deck down and other stuff you've probably heard a million times, but I think it would really help the Raikou matchup. They can't just go sniping Altarias at will. I may try this when I get a chance. What are your thoughts on Terrakion and Switch without Energy Switch, the idea being only lay down Terrakion with an energy attachment so that his presence deters Altaria sniping/Catchering with Darkrai.
I like the energy switch because it also helps Garchomp be able to do it's second attack. When i play my Terrakion build I very rarely use it as a presence threat to deter people from attacking. I only run two switch because i rarely will play terrakion unless i need to. I like to play Terrakion energy switch then ko. I only use the Terrakion to stay prize for prize. Also with the RAY EEls decks the biggest threats are the Eels and Rayquazas. I ko them before anything else. Raikou is no threat if there are no eels in play. The decks that are hard win against even with the terrakion as a tech are the Hydregion decks. Terrakion with an energy attachment may deter a person from attacking with Darkrai it just depends on the person. I would not count on it though. So to answer your question i would not put in more switches and take out the energy switches.
A card that i tech for this deck in place of switch or energy switch is tool scrapper.
Hope my input helped?
Yeah. I really want to make room for Terrakion but don't have room for the five cards it would take to use him effectively. I might take out a Rare Candy because I have NEVER gotten a T2 Garchomp. Probably because Garchomp is only searchable through Dragon Call. And one of the problems I have with Terrakion is that he isn't searchable. You need three cards to pull of single turn Retaliate: Terrakion, energy, and Energy Switch. None of these are Searchable (but of course, with 11 energies, it doesn't matter there). I had two Communications in my list, but ironically, I took them out for Terrakion. What I may end up doing is dropping the Plus Powers for him If you could take a look at my list, I would greatly apprieciate it.
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-garchomp-altaria--108203
If you could take a look at my list, I would greatly apprieciate it.http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-garchomp-altaria--108203
terrynum1 said:
I will give you an honest criticism of your current build. This is a classic case where techs is given priority over consistency just to take care of two match-ups in the meta. Let's not forget that when you go to Battle Roads you will be facing other decks besides Darkrai/Hydreigon and Eel Box. Your current build will most likely fail in the mirror match-up against Garchomp/Altaria. I've played a lot of mirror Garchomp/Altaria matches and usually the most consistent build wins it.
Garchomp/Altaria's advantage over other decks is its speed in set-up. Your "Final Build" has made this deck slower because of two major reasons: having only two Emolgas and the absence of Rare Candy. Emolga is the best starter for this deck and having only two lowers the chance of starting it and hence raises the chances of a slow set-up. Rare Candy gives you a shot at a turn 2 Garchomp which opens the possibility of OHKOing a defending pokemon at turn 2. Your build has no chance of a turn 2 Garchomp at all and will probably allow other decks to outspeed you and inflict damage on your pokemon before you can even set-up. A good example of this is a turn 2 Tornadus/Thundurus/Landorus take down of your 80 hp Gabite as opposed to a turn 2 Garchomp with 80 damage on it.
Your build also doesn't deal with eviolites that the Eel and Darkrai player may have in use in the field. Raikou EX + Eviolite or Darkrai + Eviolite will deny you of the OHKO retaliate you were planning with this build. That means instead of your planned 1 prize card for 2 prize card swap it might end up a 2 for 2 prize card swap. We also do know that max potion usually comes to play in Raikou Eels and in Darkrai/Hydreigon and practically all the damage you have inflicted can just be wiped out by a max potion on the eviolited EX.
RobertBenjamin said:
You have a very valid point and i am fully aware of the draw backs by setting up a turn behind. I have made and played every possible build of this deck. My personal opinion on all Garchomp Alteria builds are that they are overrated fun decks because i know of over 3 decks that destroy them. Your right they do set up fast but don't last. This statement stays true to every build of this deck.
First of all Garchomp Alteria builds do not hold up to any heavy ex deck. If the heavy ex deck runs max potions and has an efficient way to retreat and heal it's a done deal with playing against any Garchomp Alteria Build. The reason for this is that Garchomp Alteria cannot one shot anything. And once the deck losses it's alterias it's done.
I put in the Terrakions and slowed down the speed of the deck for consistency. I set up one turn behind everyone else but am always set up third turn with two alterias and garchomps. Even if my opponent has ko an Swablu or Gible. Mirrored matches are hard to win against; but this goes for any mirrored match. I have to state that i have won many mirrored matches because of terrakion. I can't tell you how many times i have catchered out an emolga and or alteria and got a prize back to not fall behind in prizes. I have also used terrakion to stall out late game.
You made a great point but stated nothing i didn't already know. I like the Garchomp Alteria Builds and think it's a fun deck but would not take any of them to a battle roads. I created this deck list to make this deck more versatile against a wider range of decks. But in doing that i went against the traditional idea of this decks turn two set up. What i gained from moving the deck to a turn 3 set up is a solid build that holds up mid to late game and does not fall to far behind in prizes.
Thanks for the input.
Mora said:Yeah. I really want to make room for Terrakion but don't have room for the five cards it would take to use him effectively. I might take out a Rare Candy because I have NEVER gotten a T2 Garchomp. Probably because Garchomp is only searchable through Dragon Call. And one of the problems I have with Terrakion is that he isn't searchable. You need three cards to pull of single turn Retaliate: Terrakion, energy, and Energy Switch. None of these are Searchable (but of course, with 11 energies, it doesn't matter there). I had two Communications in my list, but ironically, I took them out for Terrakion. What I may end up doing is dropping the Plus Powers for him
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-garchomp-altaria--108203
RobertBenjamin made a great point against my build with the terrakions that you may want to read. Of course i had a rebuttal to his argument.
Here is the decklist i made from yours if you would like to run the terrakions. I kept this list close to yours to make it your own list.
Pokemon 23
4-3-4 Garchomp
4-3 Altaria
3 Emolga
2 Terrakion
Supporters 10
4 Juniper
4 N
2 Cheren
Trainers 16
4 Pokemon Catcher
3 Level Ball
2 Rare Candy
2 Tool Scrapper / Plus Power / Energy Switch
2 Switch
2 Random Receiver
1 Super Rod
Energy 11
7 Fighting
4 {W}{L}{F}{M} Blend
Thanks for your interest in the tech.
