General T/S/S?

It's true that Switch is needed for Corners decks, but that is kind of specialized. Someone already pointed out that unless you're running something like Reshiram deck using Blue Flare a deck doesn't really need Energy Retrieval, or even the 'reverses' where Rare Candy does no good in a deck using only Basics (like a Corners or Outrage deck) or Junk Arm not being useful in a deck running Vileplume (which weirdly to me is called The Truth...why?).

I played a few games and found that I only needed to use (at most) Two Pokemon Collectors for the card effect. I guess that's the good thing about Junk Arm is that it doesn't matter what 2 you discard so it can be useless Trainers for the requirement if needed.
 
Well, decks that run a bunch of Pichu (ie certain The Truth variants) can get away with 3, as its a dead draw later in the game. I'd leave it at 3-4. Also, Pokemon Communication is generally a 3 of in Vileplume decks. The decks that don't play it would be basic only decks such as 6 Corners and ZPST.
 
@pokemonjoe: I never said four wasn't a 'staple' I was just merely stating that I only needed two for the effects. How many players can say that the only thing they use Pokemon Collector for is the card effect? Or that they've never discarded trainer cards to meet the requirments of another card (Sage's Training being an obvious card requiring discard).
 
IMO these are needed in every deck. Didn't include Vileplume decks, as they have a very small trainer engine:

Code: 
3-4 Rare Candy
8-12 Juniper/N/PONT/Sage's/Gear/Receiver
4-6 Communication/Heavy Ball/Level Ball/Ultra Ball
4 Junk Arm
4-6 Pokemon Collector/Dual Ball
1-4 Catcher
1-4 Switch
1 Super Rod

I never have a single deck without these cards (except obviously no Rare Candy in ZPST and such).
 
@alexmf2: Explain to me the reason for Level Ball and Dual Ball. Both of them seem outclassed by their counterpatrs to me. I can see Level Ball as a sort of Communicator for evolutions (albeit inferior compared to as it I think it will only pretty much work on Level 2's) or for Big Basic Pokemon. I'm also not really convinced about Gear/Receiver. Granted as I've stated before (particularly on the debate about Sage's vs. Cheren) it's a matter of preference, but I'm curious why you believe they are so vital (no one else seems to think so right now).
 
Level Ball may not be used, but it is still a Pokemon search card. As for Dual Ball, it is much better than Collector in some decks such as ZPST and Mewtwo/Celebi. At least one Gear or Receiver is a must in any deck without Magnezone, as they came be Junk Armed for, which can be very helpful, especially with N being so commonly used.
 
I still don't understand why Dual Ball is better than Collector. Can you explain why it's better in certain decks (say ZPST or Mewtwo/Celebi) and not in others (like Rain Dance Snipe or Corners)? I can understand why Gear or Receiver could be useful for a deck though if you really want to track down a certain supporter card for early and/or maximum use.
 
Ok. The reason why some people prefer (it's not necessarily better) dual ball over collector is because it doesn't waste their supporter for the turn. Same reason why communication is better than Elm's. With the only true draw support being Supporters, people don't want to use that support searching for just three Pokemon. Dual ball gives you an almost for sure chance to get one pokemon without wasting your supporter and the fact that you can use multiple Dual Balls in one turn.

To explain why it's good in ZPST: it allows you to get your basics that you need (Shaymin and Pachi) without wasting your supporter for the turn. So, you can have your active, play the dual ball to get a pachi to self generate the energy that may be in your hand then oaks for a whole new hand to maybe get a second dual ball to help you get the shaymin for the celebration wind and possibly your eviolite/catcher/or whatever you are needing.
 
I run both Dual Balls and Collectors in my deck. My reason being is that if, for some reason, I don't get a Collector turn 1 there's still a chance that I can get basics out to the bench with Dual Ball (though is decided by the flip of a coin.) Also, like Sleeping Snorlax said, it doesn't waste your supporter for the turn. So you can use a different supporter if you have to. Or if you've already used up your supporter for the turn Dual Ball can be used instead of Collector to find pokemon.

Of course, I'm not saying Dual Ball is better than Collector, because it isn't. I'm simply saying that Dual Ball can augment a Collector if need be.
 
All right, that makes sense, thanks for clarifying. It can be used to supplement or even be a a replacement (albeit inferior) to Collector, and in most cases one should be able to get at least one head. Plus Dual Ball can be Junk Armed to try again, IIRC Supporters like Collector cannot be Junk Armed.
 
Yes, that's true too. Dual Ball can be Junk Armed while Collector can't. So if you have 2 Dual Balls and a Junk Arm in your hand the odds are that you'll get at least one basic.
 
@Briaah: Technically you need to have two other cards in hand to use the Junk Arm in the first place. Just saying for those newbies or returnees that may not know that.

I still think though that Pokemon Communicator is better than any of the alternates as Communicator isn't a Supporter and can be Junk Armed. It's better than Ultra Ball because you return a Pokemon to your deck (the Pokemon being the one flaw if you don't have one in hand) as opposed to discarding two cards. Heavy and Level ball are okay as they are free searches but only for a specific group of Pokemon.
 
Pikachu6319 said:
I still think though that Pokemon Communicator is better than any of the alternates as Communicator isn't a Supporter and can be Junk Armed. It's better than Ultra Ball because you return a Pokemon to your deck (the Pokemon being the one flaw if you don't have one in hand) as opposed to discarding two cards. Heavy and Level ball are okay as they are free searches but only for a specific group of Pokemon.
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Ultra Ball is so cash in EelZone, and its also amazing in any other deck, at least as a 1-of. Heavy Ball is also amazing in Reshiboar and other decks with high retreat pokemon, like a 1-of in Magnezone decks to easily get Magnezone.
 
Heavy Ball isn't going to be a staple. Reshiboar might use it but nothing else would because nothing else has multiple different cards that can be searched out with Heavy Ball, so Heavy Ball would be inferior to another copy of the card you would search for.
 
I didn't say Heavy Ball would be a staple, I said it would be a staple to have at least 4 pokemon search cards, whatever they would be.
 
You said it would be a 1-of in Magnezone decks to get out Magnezone. I was replying that it was 100% inferior to another Magnezone because Magnezone isn't a dead draw against Vileplume, and can be Poke Commed back for something else if you don't need it.
 
Dark Void said:
You said it would be a 1-of in Magnezone decks to get out Magnezone. I was replying that it was 100% inferior to another Magnezone because Magnezone isn't a dead draw against Vileplume, and can be Poke Commed back for something else if you don't need it.
Click to expand...

Yes, but another Magnezone can't be Junk Armed for, which would be the entire point of Heavy Ball. Another Magnezone = Magnezone, Heavy Ball + Junk Arm = 2 Magnezones (1 whenever you need it).
 
By that logic, every deck, even ones with only 1 type of basic energy, should run Energy Search, because Heavy Ball is to Magnezone as Energy Search is to a single type of basic energy. Even decks with multiple targets for Energy Search (ie 6 Corners) don't run energy search, and you expect decks with only one target for Heavy Ball to run that? I don't think so.
 
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