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Gengar EX / Trevenant

SaiScott95

SaiScott95

TCG Fanboy
Member
Pokémon: (17)

  • 3 Gengar-EX (Phantom Forces)
    3 Phantump (XY Base Set)
    3 Trevenant (XY Base Set)
    2 Sigilyph (Boundaries Crossed)
    1 Aegislash-EX (Phantom Forces)
    2 Skrelp (Flashfire)
    2 Dragalge (Flashfire)
    1 Mr. Mime (Plasma Freeze)
Trainers/Stadiums/Supporters: (31)

  • 3 Professor Sycamore
    3 N
    3 Skyla
    2 Pokémon Fan Club
    2 Lysandre
    1 Lysandre's Last Resort
    1 Colress
    3 Muscle Band
    4 Float Stone
    2 Startling Megaphone
    1 Computer Search
    1 Professor's Letter
    3 Ultra Ball
    2 Virbank City Gym
Energy: (12)

  • 8 Psychic Energy
    4 Double Colorless Energy
Strategy:

  • This deck is literally Donphan/Trevenant 2.0 to be completely honest. Gengar-EX's main attack (Dark Corridor) deals 60 base damage, poisons the opponent, AND switches Gengar-EX with one of your benched Pokémon. While it is somewhat more costly than Donphan, Gengar-EX is the same type as both Sigilyph AND Trevenant, giving you more options should Gengar-EX fall before you get another one.

    Also, with 60 base power and causing poison, Virbank City Gym really puts in a lot of work for this deck since you'll be causing poison every turn. But to add on to this poison, we run Dragalge. This kelp-like Dragon Pokémon has an ability called Poison Barrier which traps the opponent in if they're poisoned. Now, this is usually easy to get around thanks to cards like Switch, but if your active Pokémon is Trevenant, your opponent can't use Switch, can't set up Garbodor, can't use Muscle Band or G-Booster, etc. Their Pokémon is stuck there unless they force you to bring something up via Lysandre, Genesect-EX's Red Signal, or Pokémon Catcher.

    Lysandre's Last Resort
    -     This card allows you to reuse all the cards you want and keeps your options coming. This deck has quite a few cards that we want to use more than the amount of copies we run. In proxy testing, I've found myself wanting that 3rd Lysandre, 3rd Virbank City Gym, or 2nd Aegislash-EX. But unfortunately, I don't have space for more of those. That's why this card is so amazing. We also can't forget all them times when one is runnning low on energy. Just be careful when using it, as your opponent gets to reload their deck too.
Other Considerations:

  • Mystery Energy
    -     I was going to run a few of these, but it's really not worth it. Aegislash-EX will likely be popular, so the last thing we need is more Special Energy while we already run 4 Double Colorless Energy. At the same time, we're switching for free every turn with our Float Stones and Gengar-EX's Dark Corridor attack. That said, it's not really necessary in this deck.

    Wobbuffet (Phantom Forces)
    -     I've seen quite a few people wanting to run this in similar decks, but I honestly don't think it's worth it. It blocks the ability of your Aegislash-EX, which I think is more important as it walls Pokémon with Plasma Energy, Double Colorless Energy, Strong Energy, and them few decks that run Rainbow Energy. It also blocks Dragalge, which is important for trapping whatever Pokémon we want to target down. That said, it just didn't make the cut.

    Dedenne (Furious Fists)
    -     I may eventually fit one of these in for helping deal with Yveltal-EX decks, but I want to test more vs Yveltal-EX decks before I make that decision, especially if they try to run Phantom Forces' Hydreigon. So that said, we'll see if this ends up making the cut later on.

    Snorlax (Plasma Storm)
    -     To be completely honest, Dragalge is just better in this deck. Snorlax may just be a basic and may pull its own weight (which is a lot, literally), but locking with Dragalge and Trevenant is just so much better seeing as how much harder it is to get out of. It can literally forces a Lysandre in situations where the opponent could just use Switch against Snorlax. I honestly don't think Snorlax is worth the space this time around.

    Vs. Seeker
    -     Honestly would like to try and fit one or two of these in here. Being able to pick which Supporter to reuse from the discard pile is just too good to pass up!

    Evosoda
    -     Since we run two Stage 1 evolution lines, I'm considering fitting in an Evosoda. This lets us evolve without relying on luck of the draw, or relying on discarding 2 card to search. Would taking out an Ultra Ball be worth it, considering we run 2 copies of Pokémon Fan Club?

References:

  • Gengar-EX - Psychic - HP170
    Basic Pokemon

    [C] Night Attack: Place 3 damage counters on 1 of your opponent's Pokemon.
    [P][C][C] Dark Corridor: 60 damage. Your opponent's Active Pokemon is now Poisoned. Switch this Pokemon with 1 of your Benched Pokemon.

    When a Pokemon-EX has been Knocked Out, your opponent takes 2 Prize cards.

    Weakness: Darkness (x2)
    Resistance: Fighting (-20)
    Retreat: 2
    Aegislash-EX Metal - HP170
    Basic Pokemon

    Ability: Mighty Shield
    Prevent all damage done to this Pokemon by attacks from your opponent's Pokemon that have any Special Energy attached to them.

    [C][C][C] Slash Blast: 40+ damage. Does 20 more damage for each [M] Energy attached to this Pokemon.

    When a Pokemon-EX has been Knocked Out, your opponent takes 2 Prize cards.

    Weakness: Fire (x2)
    Resistance: Psychic (-20)
    Retreat: 3
    Mystery Energy - Special Energy

    This card can only be attached to a [P] Pokemon. This card provides [P] Energy only while this card is attached to a [P] Pokemon.

    The Retreat Cost of the [P] Pokemon this card is attached to is [C][C] less.

    (If this card is attached to anything other than a [P] Pokemon, discard this card.)
    Wobbuffet - Psychic - HP110
    Basic Pokemon

    Ability: Perseverance Wall
    As long as this Pokemon is your Active Pokemon, all Pokemon in play, in each player's hand, and in each player's discard pile have no Abilities (excluding [P] Pokemon).

    [P][C] Psychic Damage: 10x damage. This attack does 10 more damage for each damage counter on your opponent's Active Pokemon.

    Weakness: Psychic (x2)
    Resistance: none
    Retreat: 2
    Lysandre's Last Resort – Trainer
    Supporter

    Both player shuffle all cards from their discard pile back into their deck (excluding any Lysandre's Last Resort).

    You may play only 1 Supporter card during your turn (before your attack).
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

I like where you're going with this, but I think it's just way too early to be trying out this set, we don't even know all of it, and with Hydreigon around, Dark will be very popular. I just feel it's too early to seriously look into the cards of the new set.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

Have you considered using the Dragalge from Flashfire in this? Its ability prevents your opponent's poisoned Pokemon from retreating, which can be particularly nasty with Trevenant. You could probably squeeze in a 2-2 line somehow. I wouldn't make the line any larger than that due to clogging and it's not something you'd ever want to see active. Like Oblivion said though. this is based on a card that won'be out for some time, and we're not sure what the metagame is going to look like at that point.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

SaiScott95 said:
Snorlax
- Poison Stall. Enough said. Gonna also find space to test Dragalge, so I can trap the opponent in with poison AND prevent the opponent from using items at the same time.
Click to expand...
My Little Keldeo said:
Have you considered using the Dragalge from Flashfire in this? Its ability prevents your opponent's poisoned Pokemon from retreating, which can be particularly nasty with Trevenant. You could probably squeeze in a 2-2 line somehow. I wouldn't make the line any larger than that due to clogging and it's not something you'd ever want to see active. Like Oblivion said though. this is based on a card that won'be out for some time, and we're not sure what the metagame is going to look like at that point.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes I have ;)

I'll be testing that for certain. I got a few friends who will let me proxy the new stuffs, so i will definitely be testing a ton before November. Probably testing something like...
-1 Snorlax (just might be completely outclassed by dragalge in this deck)
-1 Aegislash EX (Sure walling special energies would be nice, but so is keeping poisoned pokemon in.
-1 Gengar EX (Donphan only run 3-3, and Gengar EX is easier to get out, so running 3 of that will definitely work)
-1 Hypnotoxic Laser (It's main job is to poison, and Gengar EX does that already)

+2 Skrelp
+2 Dragalge
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

Snorlax is very helpful, because his ability garuntees that you can trap them active, as opposed to Dragalge, who can be countered if your opponent has any way of getting rid of special conditions. That, and Dragalge is a stage 1 Pokemon.

Don't drop the snorlax in here, it can create win conditions for you as well, if you're playing a deck with very few switching cards (Yveltal/Garbodor or Fairies) then if you get something in their active spot that can't attack, and try can't switch out, you'll just deck them, but with Dragalge the poison would take the KO.

TLDR: Snorlax is very good, don't drop him.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

OblivionDvdr said:
Snorlax is very helpful, because his ability garuntees that you can trap them active, as opposed to Dragalge, who can be countered if your opponent has any way of getting rid of special conditions. That, and Dragalge is a stage 1 Pokemon.
Click to expand...

Ideally, you would be switching into Trevenant with Gengar's attack, which prevents your opponent from playing trainer cards. So then, the only way for them to heal special conditions is by attaching a Grass Energy with Virizion in play. Switching into Trevenant with Dragalge does Snorlax's job pretty well. The only thing Snorlax has over Dragalge is being a Basic, and it's for this reason that you might actually want to keep one Snorlax around.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

Mora said:
OblivionDvdr said:
Snorlax is very helpful, because his ability garuntees that you can trap them active, as opposed to Dragalge, who can be countered if your opponent has any way of getting rid of special conditions. That, and Dragalge is a stage 1 Pokemon.
Click to expand...

Ideally, you would be switching into Trevenant with Gengar's attack, which prevents your opponent from playing trainer cards. So then, the only way for them to heal special conditions is by attaching a Grass Energy with Virizion in play. Switching into Trevenant with Dragalge does Snorlax's job pretty well. The only thing Snorlax has over Dragalge is being a Basic, and it's for this reason that you might actually want to keep one Snorlax around.
Click to expand...

How would you suggest fitting in a 2-2 line of Dragalge if I do keep Snorlax? I don't think I will, but I will proxy test it before making a decision.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

Me personally, I would drop the Snorlax, and if I were to play it with Dragalge, right off the bat I see that you could take out the lasers for it. I'm pretty sure Gengar's attack poisons and switches to the Bench, but I'm not looking at the scans right now.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

Mora said:
Me personally, I would drop the Snorlax, and if I were to play it with Dragalge, right off the bat I see that you could take out the lasers for it. I'm pretty sure Gengar's attack poisons and switches to the Bench, but I'm not looking at the scans right now.
Click to expand...

Alright, I'll try it without the lasers to see how things go. Thanks!
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

I don't like the Hypnotoxic lasers in this deck because they're doing something that Gengar Ex already does.
I would go:
-3 Laser
-1 Gengar Ex
-1 Psychic Energy
-1 Snorlax (with Dragalge there's no need)

and add
+1 Spiritomb LTR (Virgen can go through all the walls with G-booster so this would improve your worst matchup)
+2 Skrelp
+2 Dragalge
+1 N

I haven't tested this options, I just thought of them.. I'm also very interested on a Gengar Ex deck for the future.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

Yeah, after thinking about stuff, I've decided I'll take out all the lasers and the Snorlax for the Dragalge stuff. Won't even bother with testing Snorlax because in this deck, Dragalge is just better.

Warizon, I'll probably end up testing Spiritomb. Thanks for mentioning that, dunno how I forgot about it.
----
QUESTIONS:

  • - I've faced a few decks that ran Garbodor with my other decks, and based on how often I got Startling Megaphone, I'm really thinking 2 might not be enough with this deck being so reliant on abilities. That said, should I or should I not add a third?

    - LYSANDRE. Okay, this thing is amazing and is probably my favorite supporter. Now, looking at this deck, one of the biggest worries is OHKOs. Lysandre will bring up threatening things before they can be set up, and trap them in thanks to Gengar EX's poison and Dragalge's ability. That said, would it be worth it to attempt to test a third one? The only thing stopping me is that it IS a supporter, and I can only use one per turn. But at the same time, I can also discard extras using Ultra Ball and Computer Search if needed. Thoughts and reasoning behind your thoughts, please?
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

You're already running 4 float stone but one card I find very useful in these kinds of decks is Keldeo-ex. Not necessary but something to keep in the back of your head. Instead of attaching Float Stones too all of your wall Pokemon you only need 1 on Keldeo to be able to switch any of your walls.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

I could consider fitting Keldeo EX in. If I do, I'll be finding room for 2 of them in case one goes down. Would probably lower my float stone count and Gengar EX count to 3 each for them.

Dunno, but I'll test it to see how things go.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar EX PHF / Trevenant XY

I honestly do not think it's a good idea to drop the Snorlax. It's versatile, you can just drop it from your hand (as opposed to Dragalge, whom you must set up), and you don't need poison to lock them active. For example, against Virizion/Genesect. If you Lysandre their Jirachi once they have no switching cards left, you win. It could also work against fairies, who may run Virizion EX, Keldeo EX, or even Slurpuff, but no switching cards, so a snorlax can just ruin their day.

Is Dragalge 'better', most of the time? Yes.

However, Snorlax serves as more of a tech than anything, and I strongly urge you to keep him in the deck; he's just a helpful card, and 1 spot in your deck it's a big commitment at all.

The biggest thing to remember is that Snorlax and Dragalge serve different purposes, and that snorlax cannot be 'replaced' by Dragalge. If snorlax is deemed unnecessary for his role, that is a different story, but take out a psychic and keep the snorlax, just to see.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar-EX / Trevenant

I updated the original post based off of testing results I got while using proxies.

Please help me find room for x1 Vs. Seeker and x1 Evosoda.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar-EX / Trevenant

I'd honestly say drop the Virbank. Lets take a look at the math.

With Virbank,
60 base damage + 20 from Muscle Band + 30 from poison + 30 more from poison going into your turn = 140 damage

Without Virbank,
60 base damage + 20 from Muscle Band + 10 from poison + 10 more from poison going into your turn = 100 damage

As you can see, you will still need two hits to take out other Pokemon-EX, no matter what. While you might not be able to OHKO some evolution decks as easily, I doubt you'll have much trouble against those anyway, running item lock. I'd much rather run Dimensional Valley to allow for a much quicker setup.
 
RE: [BCR-on] Gengar-EX / Trevenant

With more reliance on draw supporters than ever, would a Supporter lock with Gengar-EX and Stoutland BCR be viable? As opposed to the Item lock this thread is about.

As a Psychic type Gengar-EX can easily take care of the Fighting Pokemon which threaten Stoutland, while poison + Virbank finish them off. Opponents hand will soon dry up without any draw supporters.

There was an archetype with Stoutland using Palkia-EX as the attacker (Strafe). It didn't have a lot of success, mainly because of the hassle of setting up a Stage 2, also because Palkia's attack wasn't very strong (base 50). Gengar-EX with Muscle Band and Virbank hits for 110 every turn. It's worth a try. I will definitely be testing it out. I really want to see Stoutland BCR get some love, I'm a Stoutland fanboy :D Gengar-EX could be the break its been looking for. Thoughts?
 
RE: Gengar-EX / Trevenant

ScottSpain said:
Is Mystery Energy too risky? Figured it would be perfect in this.
Click to expand...

For Trevenant? Yeah it would be perfect. But I think with Phantom Forces, both Float Stone and Mystery Energy have equal risks due to the new cards which focus on removing Special Energy and Tools. e.g. Xerosic, Enhanced Hammer.
 
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