They really should do the same thing with Greninja and Garbodor garbotoxin as well if they are going the get rid of hex manic since it seems they want people to be able to use abilities more which I'm glad there going in that direction honestly. Hopefully they think of that in the future when they put out new cards.
Ghetsis, Hex Maniac, and More Banned from Expanded Format!
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
- Start date
Sky field isn't inherently broken like Puzzles are, which allow you to get back your Ace Specs, and is easily countered by Soodowoodo or Parallel City. Why on earth would they ban battle compressor? If anything, battle compressor helps to diversify the meta by allowing decks that need cards in the discard pile to function more easily.
You can turn off Garbodor's ability by playing field blower, so it isn't really that big of a problem. The big thing with Hex is that it could be used to just turn off your opponent's abilities, while still being able to use a 180 or 210 damage Riotous Beating. In Greninja's case, you do 40 or 70 with the same effect, and it's a stage 2.
For all of you saying Buzzwole is going to take over expanded, the top 2 decks imo are both weak to Buzzwole (Zoroark and Darkrai) and it still has losing matchups against both of them. I don't think Buzzwole gets any better from these bans, considering it has already gotten a lot of things going for it, with no actual results. Especially since Rotom, Malamar, and Night Marchadow are going to be much more effective now that Hex is gone.
Not surprised they banned Puzzle at all. There are a bunch of GX effects that do similar and better things and i believe its pretty healthy to move these kinds of retrievals to one-offs per game.
As for Buzzwole, only the weak are afraid. The deck is great, especially when you're in a stale environment where people play 3 decks and 10 variants of each of them. I hope everyone, especially Pokemon(tm) keep pushing for variety and trying to keep things fresh.
As for Buzzwole, only the weak are afraid. The deck is great, especially when you're in a stale environment where people play 3 decks and 10 variants of each of them. I hope everyone, especially Pokemon(tm) keep pushing for variety and trying to keep things fresh.
That would do it! Though I looked at Milotic again and it's only one card from discard. It's better than nothing, but it's not Puzzle.
The biggest winner with this ban is probably Wailord/Walls. DCE decks had a hard time with Wailord before this ban. It's a good thing that Tropical Beach is prohibitively expensive for the average player.
Ok, but you have to ban Hoopa and Alolan Ninetales now.
If you can handle it in standard, you can handle it in expanded
I respectively disagree on battle compressor being "healthy" in expanded and at the very least feel it should be limited which is something I'd personally like to also see with VS seeker. As far as sky field I'm willing to concede that I'm less than certain how the game will shift having lost these cards, and that Sky Field may not be broken after these limitations are put in place.
Vs seeker can be used equally in all decks. Decks with broken levels of draw can use puzzles more than others. No one uses puzzles in Buzzwole, or Volcanion. It's a shadow Zoroark nerf.
The banning of these cards is quite, sadly unfortunate, in my opinion. I, for one, thought these particular cards were impactful and could definitely alter a game given board position and prize status. As before, one could also plan to use certain "counters" too when opponents used these banned cards. Similarly, N'ing your opponent to one card too could also significantly change a game position, but N is not being banned...
With the TPCi ban of these particular Trainer cards, several good, major Expanded decks, are crippled as well and may see little/no play in Expanded tournaments. Further, other decks that used these noted Trainers cards just as techs will also be negatively affected.
In my opinion, these particular Trainers could significantly impact a game, but not to such a severe point that "stifle creativity and prevent several kinds of strategies from being viable" since players could also employ viable counter-strategies. So, I perceived the game to be quite "balanced" in this regard of utilizing these particular Trainers.
From my standpoint, this is an unfortunate TPCi decsion that decreases/reduces the overall, viable Expanded deck "pool" and deck strategy creativity. In my opinion...
With the TPCi ban of these particular Trainer cards, several good, major Expanded decks, are crippled as well and may see little/no play in Expanded tournaments. Further, other decks that used these noted Trainers cards just as techs will also be negatively affected.
In my opinion, these particular Trainers could significantly impact a game, but not to such a severe point that "stifle creativity and prevent several kinds of strategies from being viable" since players could also employ viable counter-strategies. So, I perceived the game to be quite "balanced" in this regard of utilizing these particular Trainers.
From my standpoint, this is an unfortunate TPCi decsion that decreases/reduces the overall, viable Expanded deck "pool" and deck strategy creativity. In my opinion...
Realistically, the PoT ban was targeted more towards Zoroark, I think. With Trade and infinite Eggs to discard, having 2 in hand was always a fairly common occurrence, and giving Zoroark an easy way to get its DCE and other techs like Red Card with the numbers he can swing for is asking for disaster.
I can understand Wally, and Ghetsis and hex maniac make sense, but why puzzle of time? Does everyone hate zoroark!
Monster post responding to four different people. Enter at your own risk and I'll try not to do it again too soon. ^^'
Buzzwole-GX can be countered. In fact, some counters work better now that they cannot be sabotaged so easily. Yes, then Buzzwole-GX can counter those counters; it will boil down to which counters are more useful in general, what each deck can fit, etc.
They still have a highly collectible Full Art available to them. This should barely affect Hex Maniac's value as a collectible; the normal version of Hex Maniac is the one that might take a hit. Neither of which is a problem because this is a Trading Card Game and things like this happen; if you dropped a lot of money you couldn't afford to blow, your mistake happened at the moment you decided on the purchase.
Switching gears (and people):
You could try Silent Lab, though if Rotom decks are that strong, then a 1-1 Alolan Muk probably is a good idea. Takes care of Rotom, might mess up Shaymin-EX (ROS), Tapu Lele-GX, etc.
Two more:
Welcome to modern TCG's. Remember that these cards both enabled and countered "curb stomping" someone. Now, if you're down on getting rid of all of the cards that are causing problems, you just have to help me convince TPCi and TPC that we do have to rotate to XY-On and have like a 100 card Ban List. Pokémon is made of "broken", though not as badly as I believe many other games are.
We have a heightened balance right now where Broken Card A kind of balances out Broken Card B and both of those help tone down Broken Card C etc. It is kind of like a Justice League Versus Avengers brawl; usually you've got Superman and Thor slugging it out, Batman and Captain America trying to keep each other busy while still coordinating with others, and so on with Green Arrow and Hawkeye just taking shots at each other with the small chance of pulling off a meaningful assist for someone else.
One with no quote:
Just @TuxedoBlack I disagree, but thanks for taking the time to thoughtfully explain your position. We simply disagree on the effects these cards had on the current metagame and their likely future impact. I will add, however, that "Why isn't [insert card] also banned?' is usually a losing defense in these situations. If you're serious, you'll find someone like me who is all "Hopefully, that's next!". Simply put, banning all the cards I think need to go would create a monstrous mess of a list, and even if that were permitted, I'm assuming TPC/TPCi would like to ease into such a thing.
Here's hoping Professor Juniper, Professor Sycamore, and N someday do leave the Expanded cardpool!
*cackles maniacally*
Buzzwole-GX can be countered. In fact, some counters work better now that they cannot be sabotaged so easily. Yes, then Buzzwole-GX can counter those counters; it will boil down to which counters are more useful in general, what each deck can fit, etc.
They still have a highly collectible Full Art available to them. This should barely affect Hex Maniac's value as a collectible; the normal version of Hex Maniac is the one that might take a hit. Neither of which is a problem because this is a Trading Card Game and things like this happen; if you dropped a lot of money you couldn't afford to blow, your mistake happened at the moment you decided on the purchase.
Switching gears (and people):
You could try Silent Lab, though if Rotom decks are that strong, then a 1-1 Alolan Muk probably is a good idea. Takes care of Rotom, might mess up Shaymin-EX (ROS), Tapu Lele-GX, etc.
Two more:
Welcome to modern TCG's. Remember that these cards both enabled and countered "curb stomping" someone. Now, if you're down on getting rid of all of the cards that are causing problems, you just have to help me convince TPCi and TPC that we do have to rotate to XY-On and have like a 100 card Ban List. Pokémon is made of "broken", though not as badly as I believe many other games are.
We have a heightened balance right now where Broken Card A kind of balances out Broken Card B and both of those help tone down Broken Card C etc. It is kind of like a Justice League Versus Avengers brawl; usually you've got Superman and Thor slugging it out, Batman and Captain America trying to keep each other busy while still coordinating with others, and so on with Green Arrow and Hawkeye just taking shots at each other with the small chance of pulling off a meaningful assist for someone else.
One with no quote:
Just @TuxedoBlack I disagree, but thanks for taking the time to thoughtfully explain your position. We simply disagree on the effects these cards had on the current metagame and their likely future impact. I will add, however, that "Why isn't [insert card] also banned?' is usually a losing defense in these situations. If you're serious, you'll find someone like me who is all "Hopefully, that's next!". Simply put, banning all the cards I think need to go would create a monstrous mess of a list, and even if that were permitted, I'm assuming TPC/TPCi would like to ease into such a thing.
Here's hoping Professor Juniper, Professor Sycamore, and N someday do leave the Expanded cardpool!
*cackles maniacally*
Rotom easily gets rid of Silent Lab, because it plays 4 field blowers and maybe even a few Parallels. I do think we will have to use Muk, but I guess it's not as bad as I thought, since you only have to play a 1-1 line to wall Rotom.
Thanks, it's great to be here.
To be honest, I don't understand why people are ranting and raving about the new bans.
As with the previous bans (Archeops and Forest) TPCI is trying to limit extremely strong t1 plays that tend to establish an incredibly powerful lock or gamestate advantage on your opponent before they even get to play the game (assuming you go first).
Wally: With it Trevenant can evolve turn 1 and establish an item lock before your opponent even gets to have his first turn, while also being easily searchable with Lele.
Such a lock is only disruptable with a guzma or lysandre which won't even work if the opponent didn't bench anything else, or if you simply don't start your guzma or lysandre (which you really don't want to, since you would rather set up)
Ghetsis: Items are a very prevalent card type in the game, and even more so in expanded.
This card, if played at the first turn of the game, can even straight up win you the game against some item heavy decks, or just severely disrupt your opponent’s start while letting you have some extra cards.
Hex Maniac: The only form of non-counterable ability lock in the game, readily available to anyone and everyone with just a supporter.
This single handedly destroys decks that need to set up in the early game (again, with no risk of them doing anything to prevent it) or even decks that continuously rely on abilities during a game.
Puzzle of Time : This is the card that allows Sableye to essentially lock any deck in an almost impossible to escape situation alongside Trick Shovel to control their draw and Team Rocket's Handiwork to mill them to 0.
Sure, Sableye isn't the only deck that runs it, and even though I thoroughly love the card, I can see that as time goes on it'd probably become even more broken.
Recycling resources is an extremely powerful effect that shouldn't be readily available to anyone for just the price of playing 2 items down, that are themselves recyclable.
I could have just as easily seen Sableye take this slot, but to be honest, I think this is still the better decision, even if it slightly (or less so) hurts the other decks in the metagame.
Also, access to your entire discard pile, and as a consequence, your deck, at any time is really just absurdly powerful and way too easy to pull off in the Expansion format.
As you can see, 3/4 cards were banned for strong, non-counterable t1 plays that you can't do anything about in any situation other than just being able to luck out of it, and the last one is just due to powerful and reusable abuse.
These are my 2 cents on the matter.
As with the previous bans (Archeops and Forest) TPCI is trying to limit extremely strong t1 plays that tend to establish an incredibly powerful lock or gamestate advantage on your opponent before they even get to play the game (assuming you go first).
Wally: With it Trevenant can evolve turn 1 and establish an item lock before your opponent even gets to have his first turn, while also being easily searchable with Lele.
Such a lock is only disruptable with a guzma or lysandre which won't even work if the opponent didn't bench anything else, or if you simply don't start your guzma or lysandre (which you really don't want to, since you would rather set up)
Ghetsis: Items are a very prevalent card type in the game, and even more so in expanded.
This card, if played at the first turn of the game, can even straight up win you the game against some item heavy decks, or just severely disrupt your opponent’s start while letting you have some extra cards.
Hex Maniac: The only form of non-counterable ability lock in the game, readily available to anyone and everyone with just a supporter.
This single handedly destroys decks that need to set up in the early game (again, with no risk of them doing anything to prevent it) or even decks that continuously rely on abilities during a game.
Puzzle of Time : This is the card that allows Sableye to essentially lock any deck in an almost impossible to escape situation alongside Trick Shovel to control their draw and Team Rocket's Handiwork to mill them to 0.
Sure, Sableye isn't the only deck that runs it, and even though I thoroughly love the card, I can see that as time goes on it'd probably become even more broken.
Recycling resources is an extremely powerful effect that shouldn't be readily available to anyone for just the price of playing 2 items down, that are themselves recyclable.
I could have just as easily seen Sableye take this slot, but to be honest, I think this is still the better decision, even if it slightly (or less so) hurts the other decks in the metagame.
Also, access to your entire discard pile, and as a consequence, your deck, at any time is really just absurdly powerful and way too easy to pull off in the Expansion format.
As you can see, 3/4 cards were banned for strong, non-counterable t1 plays that you can't do anything about in any situation other than just being able to luck out of it, and the last one is just due to powerful and reusable abuse.
These are my 2 cents on the matter.
After reading the effects of the cards that have been newly banned, I can honestly say I'm not surprised. Though on a personal note, I don't like using the word "Banned" on cards that can't be used, so I'll be borrowing a Yu-Gi-Oh! term for cards that are banned from play, which is "Forbidden".