Greninja Discussion

I'm digging Kyurem/Greninja. So much snipage. The freedom of spreading damage on the board while Superior Energy Retrieval is still a thing is, quite frankly, incredible. And if you have multiple Greninja, you could be potentially throwing down twelve damage counters on the board. (Realistic? No. Possible? Yes.) Soften 'em up with Kyurem and pick off the rest with Greninja. Beautiful.
 
Serperior said:
I'm digging Kyurem/Greninja. So much snipage. The freedom of spreading damage on the board while Superior Energy Retrieval is still a thing is, quite frankly, incredible. And if you have multiple Greninja, you could be potentially throwing down twelve damage counters on the board. (Realistic? No. Possible? Yes.) Soften 'em up with Kyurem and pick off the rest with Greninja. Beautiful.
Click to expand...

Glaciate Kyurem or Frost Spear Kyurem? Both could work, but I like glaciate in this case since it swings at everything, assuming they're playing a heavy board. Is this turning into a thing now? I want this to become a thing.
 
1 energy + colress machine > 3 manual attachments


Also, glaciate kyurem is made completely obsolete by the heavy presence of Mr. Mime while plasma Kyurem can obliterate anything that is a little softened up.
 
grantm1999 said:
1 energy + colress machine > 3 manual attachments


Also, glaciate kyurem is made completely obsolete by the heavy presence of Mr. Mime while plasma Kyurem can obliterate anything that is a little softened up.
Click to expand...

Good enough explanation for me. I just wanted to find some use for the old NVI Kyurem who seems to have gotten no competitive use ever.
 
Kyurem/Greninja seems alright at first glance, although Cobalion EX is still a thing in this format and since there's not very many Electric decks in the format unless XY changes that then that makes Lugia EX more of a viable partner with Greninja in the long run due to being weak to Electric which is hardly played in the format aside from Thundurus EX in TDK while Greninja is safe on the bench for the most part although Virizion/Genesect might counter Greninja easily though.
 
Regirocket said:
Serperior said:
I'm digging Kyurem/Greninja. So much snipage. The freedom of spreading damage on the board while Superior Energy Retrieval is still a thing is, quite frankly, incredible. And if you have multiple Greninja, you could be potentially throwing down twelve damage counters on the board. (Realistic? No. Possible? Yes.) Soften 'em up with Kyurem and pick off the rest with Greninja. Beautiful.
Click to expand...

Glaciate Kyurem or Frost Spear Kyurem? Both could work, but I like glaciate in this case since it swings at everything, assuming they're playing a heavy board. Is this turning into a thing now? I want this to become a thing.
Click to expand...

Plasma Kyurem hands down. grantm got it when he said that Mr. Mime ruins Glaciate Kyurem.

Cobalion-EX will never be as good as he used to be without Shift Gear Klang. Running this deck for the majority of last season, Cobalion/Klinklang always had problems with keeping Energy in play. Without Shift Gear Klang, it's hard to manage. I'm not gonna lie - Righteous Edge is ridiculously awesome this format, and it hits Plasma decks hard. But if all it's doing is pumping out 30 damage Righteous Edges, it won't be a big deal. Smart players will start charging up a Benched Pokémon without going for Steel Bullet on an Active Cobalion, and even then, you won't be affected by Weakness so you can't get OHKO'd. Sure, Weakness is a thing. And T1 60 on a Kyurem is tough to take if you can't get set up. But...we have Greninja, and it can hit for 50 with one Energy and could attack to cover Kyurem's Weakness while charging up a Benced Kyurem until it can Blizzard Burn for the KO.

Lots of options here.
 
There was ReshiBoar, then there was ZekEels, and soon, we will have KyuNinja. I hope this deck pans out well. I don't want it to get stuck in the theory pool.
 
What about our old friend Kingdra

Pokemon: 20 (lol :p)
4-2-4 Kingdra
4-2-4 Greninja

Trainers: 25
4x Juniper
4x N
3x Skyla
2x Colress
4x Level Ball
4x Rare Candy
2x Evolution Soda
2x Ultra Ball
2x Max Potion
1x Dowsing Machine
1x Super Rod

Energy: 11
11x Water
 
Greninja/Kingdra seems like it has alot of great synergy going for it yet most of the time you're going to be relying on Greninja as your main attacker doing 50 with Mist Slash and another 30 with Water Shuriken for 1 Water discard helping setup Kingdra's Dragon Vortex attack mid to late game which by then your Opponent may have already won the game. At best your max damage output with Greninja would be 80 against a matchup that isn't Delphox/Emboar which is a 1 or 2 hit KO against any non-Basic EX Pokemon.

Considering that most Mega Evolution EX cards will have at least 200+ HP at most which is already bad enough in a format where Basic EX's are more playable than Stage 1 and Stage 2 Pokemon, that leads me to believe that Greninja/Kingdra is at best a Casual League deck cause the damage output just isn't there to make it viable as a competitive deck in the format. Sure it can counter Dragon Type Pokemon with Kingdra but nobody plays Rayquaza EX anymore because Eels got rotated out. You're better off running a bench spread deck utilizing Kyurem with Greninja.
 
Card Slinger J said:
Greninja/Kingdra seems like it has alot of great synergy going for it yet most of the time you're going to be relying on Greninja as your main attacker doing 50 with Mist Slash and another 30 with Water Shuriken for 1 Water discard helping setup Kingdra's Dragon Vortex attack mid to late game which by then your Opponent may have already won the game. At best your max damage output with Greninja would be 80 against a matchup that isn't Delphox/Emboar which is a 1 or 2 hit KO against any non-Basic EX Pokemon.

Considering that most Mega Evolution EX cards will have at least 200+ HP at most which is already bad enough in a format where Basic EX's are more playable than Stage 1 and Stage 2 Pokemon, that leads me to believe that Greninja/Kingdra is at best a Casual League deck cause the damage output just isn't there to make it viable as a competitive deck in the format. Sure it can counter Dragon Type Pokemon with Kingdra but nobody plays Rayquaza EX anymore because Eels got rotated out. You're better off running a bench spread deck utilizing Kyurem with Greninja.
Click to expand...

No, that's not at all how the deck is supposed to work. The idea is to use multiple Water Shurikens and discard energies in other ways and then use Kingra's attack attack that shuffles that energy back into the deck and does 20 damage for each energy (Dragon Vortex?). That's ideally 150 for three energies in the discard pile. Add Bangle and you oneshot EX's.

Card Slinger J said:
against a matchup that isn't Delphox/Emboar
Click to expand...

You mean every match up?
 
Oh I get it now, that's a pretty good deck strategy. As for the matchups it was every matchup that isn't x2 weak to Water.
 
Four Arms said:
blargh257 said:
The idea I've seen with this is Greninja / Sableye, which relies on Sableye to get Rare Candies for Greninjas and Energy Retreival for the damage output. I like it, but I don't think it will be that great.
Click to expand...

That seems like a really fun deck. Not particularly competitive, but fun.

I still think Empoleon / Greninja will be a good deck. Empoleon's damage output is fairly week, but with Bangle and Water Shuriken, you can get off a couple 1 shots. Even if Attack Command w/ Bangle + Water Shuriken doesn't 1HKO your opponent, you can just Water Shuriken them next turn to finish them off. People aren't going to waste their Catchers to KO your Greninja, so you probably only need to run a 2-0-2 line or 2-1-2 of Greninja.

Kingdra / Greninja might also be decent... If Mr. Mime didn't exist. Even Dragon Vortex has good synergy with Water Shuriken.
Click to expand...

You'd still be discarding energies to snipe out the mime, and also dealing damage to the active with Kingdra, so mime shouldn't be a concern.


Baby_BI said:
Well... it says no where that you may only use 1 ability per turn.. so why not play it as a quad?
Click to expand...

Empoleon and Greninja can only do their ability "once per turn" as written on both cards, so there is a limit.
 
Right. What he means is you can use it once for each Greninja. It doesn't say anything like, "You can only use one Water Shuriken Ablity per turn," thus preventing you from using it once for each Greninja you have set up.
 
Card Slinger J said:
Oh I get it now, that's a pretty good deck strategy. As for the matchups it was every matchup that isn't x2 weak to Water.
Click to expand...

That makes absolutely no sense considering Kingdra is a dragon type and you can spread 60-90 damage a turn as well as doing 40-100 damage to the active without any boosts. It might not be tier one by any means, but don't underestimate what it can do.
 
Has anyone here thought about Accelgor/Greninja? Use Accelgor's Deck and Cover with DCE and Silver Bangle attached to Paralyze and Poison your Opponent's Active with Frozen City/Virbank City Gym out while using Hypnotoxic Laser and Greninja's Water Shuriken for more added damage? Seems like it could be really solid possibly.

The ideal scenario would be to get 3 Greninja on your bench with 3 or more Water energies in hand to Water Shuriken 2-3 times a turn for 60-90 damage while getting back those energies with Energy Retrieval and Superior Energy Retrieval while you have Accelgor active ready to Deck and Cover. The only counter to this strategy would be Virizion EX due to Verdant Wind unfortunately.
 
Card Slinger J said:
Has anyone here thought about Accelgor/Greninja? Use Accelgor's Deck and Cover with DCE and Silver Bangle attached to Paralyze and Poison your Opponent's Active with Frozen City/Virbank City Gym out while using Hypnotoxic Laser and Greninja's Water Shuriken for more added damage? Seems like it could be really solid possibly.

The ideal scenario would be to get 3 Greninja on your bench with 3 or more Water energies in hand to Water Shuriken 2-3 times a turn for 60-90 damage while getting back those energies with Energy Retrieval and Superior Energy Retrieval while you have Accelgor active ready to Deck and Cover. The only counter to this strategy would be Virizion EX due to Verdant Wind unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Why would you use laser when you have Accelgor?
 
Baby_BI said:
Card Slinger J said:
Has anyone here thought about Accelgor/Greninja? Use Accelgor's Deck and Cover with DCE and Silver Bangle attached to Paralyze and Poison your Opponent's Active with Frozen City/Virbank City Gym out while using Hypnotoxic Laser and Greninja's Water Shuriken for more added damage? Seems like it could be really solid possibly.

The ideal scenario would be to get 3 Greninja on your bench with 3 or more Water energies in hand to Water Shuriken 2-3 times a turn for 60-90 damage while getting back those energies with Energy Retrieval and Superior Energy Retrieval while you have Accelgor active ready to Deck and Cover. The only counter to this strategy would be Virizion EX due to Verdant Wind unfortunately.
Click to expand...

Why would you use laser when you have Accelgor?
Click to expand...

Since you wouldn't need to run Hypnotoxic Laser and Virbank in the deck you can get away with running Frozen City to add on damage counters with Water Shuriken while making deck space for Silver Bangle and/or Tool Scrapper for Garbodor supposedly. The deck still needs a Fire counter to Virizion EX that's at least a Stage 1 or a Basic.
 
My thought on this whole situation is that you all have some good ideas. They all seem like strong competetors. From my standpoint, I'd like to run Greninja in a cradily deck. So my thought on this is to play cradily and be able to pull up all your ideas in one deck. 3 greninja, 2 empoleon, 2 Kingdra spread in a deck with lileep and cradily. Life Explosion for your bench and then sacrifice cradily to pull up empoleon or kingdra. Then go to work with the water energies. Make sure to have plenty of draw support and tool cards to throw off your oppenent. Escapes ropes to switch out the opponents bench which allow for easy targeting and avoiding resistance. The scrappers for opponents tools and you are all set. The only issue I would have is the time it takes to set up. If someone could help me solve that then I would gladely invest in this deck.
 
I appreciate the Cradily reference. I wrote a long post on it somewhere in the competitive play forum here. I wanna tell you right now, before this goes further, Cradily just isn't ever going to be fast enough, consistent enough, or powerful enough to make up for the 2, 3, or sometimes 4 turns it takes to get all of our stage 2s out. I played and theory'd the hell out of the deck, and it just doesn't make it. Even with the newly slowed format, it still won't make it. Running straight consistency lines of the Stage 2s is unfortunately the better route for getting them out. Feel free to take a look at my thread to see if you can make it work out, but from my experience, Cradily should just be left to the league play and fun decks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top