Gyarados deck and Metagame discussions...

This goes back to my point about "speed" - who ever can get set up faster will most likely win that match-up.

But yeah, with Gyarados you would have a bench consisting of maybe - Claydol, Registeel, Sableye, Crobat G, "something" (i'm just basing this off what i would have most times) so with something like Flygon lock or Luxray GL variants they could easily pick off your bench pokemon, which i guess would be a downside with the deck, but its makes up for it with being able to hit hard, great recovery and not to forget its speed.
 
Lunar Wing said:
If you had read what I just said.

Wheras if Gyarados were to use one [Warp Point] or a Cyclone Energy, they still need to do an exra 20 to OHKO that other Beedrill that they sent up.
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It is, however, easier for Gyarados to eliminate Beedrills recovery then the other way around, since Gyarados's recovery is trainer based rather then Pokemon based.
 

It is, however, easier for Gyarados to eliminate Beedrills recovery then the other way around, since Gyarados's recovery is trainer based rather then Pokemon based.
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And Beedrill is Trainer based too. Considering that the Poke-Powers (which would already be out to help OHKO Gyarados) will get two pieces back from the discard after a Night Maintenance. I don't see how being Pokemon based can make a big difference in recovery when neither deck is locking anything.
 
Lunar Wing said:
It is, however, easier for Gyarados to eliminate Beedrills recovery then the other way around, since Gyarados's recovery is trainer based rather then Pokemon based.
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And Beedrill is Trainer based too. Considering that the Poke-Powers (which would already be out to help OHKO Gyarados) will get two pieces back from the discard after a Night Maintenance. I don't see how being Pokemon based can make a big difference in recovery when neither deck is locking anything.
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many good gyarados decks run Luxray GL Lv. X. All you do is SSU gyarados, brightlook the RR beedril, BTS the gyarados back down and retreat/poketurn to it. and then either a mix of bucks training and crobat to ohko the RR beedrill. it sounds like a lot to do, but trust me. It's not that hard to pull off. Also, once you take out their RR beedrills, its instantly harder for them to recover.
 
I'd think Beedrill would have the advantage over Gyarados since Beedrill would more than likely outspeed Gyarados and overpower him. Beedrill has an easier time OHKOing Gyarados than Gyarados does to Beedrill. Gyrados may pick up a few victories against Beedrill, but Beedrill will dominate most of the time.
 
I completely disagree with everyone who says gyarados cant be as fast as beedrill,how fast does a beedrill setup?T2 120???Gyarados can do quite the same T2 90,also in beedrill,you use supporters for getting setup,while in gyarados we use supporters(bucks anyone?)to boost damage and at the same time gyarados has more ways of doing damage WITHOUT attacking than beedrill does,so definitely the matchup is in gyara's favour.

And if anyone still disagrees,its time for RS action.
 
TDA said:
I completely disagree with everyone who says gyarados cant be as fast as beedrill,how fast does a beedrill setup?T2 120?Gyarados can do quite the same T2 90,also in beedrill,you use supporters for getting setup,while in gyarados we use supporters(bucks anyone?)to boost damage and at the same time gyarados has more ways of doing damage WITHOUT attacking than beedrill does,so definitely the matchup is in gyara's favour.

And if anyone still disagrees,its time for RS action.
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I disagree with the first part, I've been beaten by T1 four Beedrill.
 
But thats very rare,most of the time beedrill sets up by T2/T3,and thats the same time gyara takes too.
 
I think gyarados' only form of advantage comes from the fact that while beedrill will never bee 1HKO'ing gyarados with 4 plus powers and 2 crobats and 4 poketurns and a couple bucks gyarados will be able to one shot several beedrill during the game, and with your ssu's you can save gyarados one or two times meaning that you can catch up and pass your opponent in prizes


yes the pun was intentional
 
Alakapimp said:
I think gyarados' only form of advantage comes from the fact that while beedrill will never bee 1HKO'ing gyarados with 4 plus powers and 2 crobats and 4 poketurns and a couple bucks gyarados will be able to one shot several beedrill during the game, and with your ssu's you can save gyarados one or two times meaning that you can catch up and pass your opponent in prizes


yes the pun was intentional
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i don't see a pun.... but i think most beedrill play 4 PP, but that would only offer 4 KO's, so it shouldn't be too hard

plus i think Gyarados is faster since it doesn't need many techs at all really to stay quick, while beedrill needs 4 beedrill out, and what if a Beedrill and weedle are prized in the match? they'll be stuck at 90 for while, in any match really, would slow them down
 
reclaimer94 said:
I don't see a pun.... but I think most beedrill play 4 PP, but that would only offer 4 KO's, so it shouldn't be too hard

plus I think Gyarados is faster since it doesn't need many techs at all really to stay quick, while beedrill needs 4 beedrill out, and what if a Beedrill and weedle are prized in the match? they'll be stuck at 90 for while, in any match really, would slow them down
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Yes but the Gyarados deck could also get stuck with a Magikarp prized, and only be able to do 60. And even if one Beedrill is prized, he still has the same damage output as Gyarados.

I honestly think there not much of an arguement here. I mean, Beedrill did win worlds after all, so you can really come out with this new deck that became popular like two weeks ago and say it can beat Beedrill.

And yes, I did see the pun...
 
SourMilk said:
Yes but the Gyarados deck could also get stuck with a Magikarp prized, and only be able to do 60. And even if one Beedrill is prized, he still has the same damage output as Gyarados.

I honestly think there not much of an arguement here. I mean, Beedrill did win worlds after all, so you can really come out with this new deck that became popular like two weeks ago and say it can beat Beedrill.

And yes, I did see the pun...
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There honestly isn't much to argue here. Both decks have potential to beat each other. It all depends on how consistent each deck can be in getting set up and getting there recovery. IMO in a perfect world, both decks would just be trading prizes anyway.

Side note: Alex, I LOVE your sig. ahaha freakin demitri and his crocs.
 
interesting discussion here...having played good lists of both decks...I will have to go with Beedrill with having the advantage in the match...greater damage capacity, slightly better recovery, and really the setup is just about the same in terms of speed

Gyarados does have a big problem though...it's is more easily countered...with Relicanth being seen as a regular tech these days...it's not really that difficult to just add 2 energy to it and just Amnesia Gyarados' Tail Revenge attack...leaving the opponent to have to actually power it up...which takes 2 energy to do for only a measly 40 dmg, sure the effect of the attack isn't that bad, but it's still flippy and pretty much leaves it to be KO'd the following turn

Beedrill's Band Attack can be susceptible to Amnesia, but more than likely, the other Band Attack Beedrill is waiting on the bench, and can be easily swapped in to continue with business as normal...Gyarados has to recover and then it gets to continue with Tail Revenge, which in turn, another Relicanth can be sitting there waiting

I give credit to the Gyarados deck, it's very imaginative and a pretty decent deck, especially for how cheap it is to put together...but there are just one too many things that can bring it to a halt
 
Gyarados came 5th at worlds.Also qnetykz,how does gyarados recover from a ko?By using crobat's free retreat,it can counter amnesia by warping/switching and retreating for free,and koing relicanth,BTW how many relicanth techs does any deck play????4?


EDIT:ninja'd
 
Gyarados recovers by getting back one of the "Karp" and evolving, of course, which can easily not go as planned

I see everyone talking about "Warping" and "Switching"...you're right, they can do that...however, most players I've played have used that tactic to get the match-up they want for the easy KO, considering Gyarados doesn't just autoKO everything, AND against a deck that has greater damage capacity and about even or more HP, most times the CG's and PokeTurn have been mostly used by the time the mid-game comes around...it's then at that point in time, you can and should just KO the CG's (Crobat G), being more than likely you're going to have your own Warps and/or Switches

I lost against the deck at my last BR, using Yanmega/Shaymin, but the reason I lost was not due to the deck dominating me...I lost due to my own mistakes in strategy...instead of just grabbing the KO from the Crobat being active, I was trying to hold off to just KO the Gyarados, because that was the only threat and the Crobat was so easy a KO, I didn't want to waste that part of the Yan/Shay cycle...yea, it setup faster than I did and got "first blood", but it was't that much faster than I was...while he was set T2, I was set T3

I'm not taking anything away from the deck, I just agree that in a match-up against Beedrill, Beedrill has the advantage with explanation as to why...the deck does have a good track record, and tends to catch a many-a-metagame unaware...but the more it gets play, the more people take notice...then the more people will start trying to tech against the deck (which isn't a difficult thing to do), but thats just how metagaming goes

when it all comes down to it...the matchups for decks that everybody talks about, it's just a paper match-up...the real matchup is between the players, not the decks...we can go back and forth all day long with scenarios to prove our points, but in actuality, the scenarios we come up with are just ideal and/or not-so-ideal situations for cards that could possibly be in hand when that situations occurs...2 decks that are well built will always come down to who's the better strategist in terms of gameplay, whether or not, you can find and exploit the weaknesses in your opponent's deck, while keeping your opponent from finding and exploiting the weaknesses in your deck
 
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