Is the United States going to Default on it's own Debt?
- Thread starter Card Slinger J
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True, but what I was trying to say was that we need a long-term solution to fixing our Nation's Debt/Deficit and the better we get it done before 2013 the safer we will be financially. We still have a long ways to go If we are going to get more done than what we already have gotten done.
A Balanced Budget Amendment won't solve it but what about tax increases and revenue? the bill that was just passed in order to avoid default had none of those let alone a way to reduce the unemployment rate dramatically and increase job growth. The problem that every politician seems to ignore is a way to encourage job growth here in the U.S. where we have countries like China and India beating us on that criteria to the punch.
Sure in a bad economy it sounds like a bad idea to increase taxes but it might be worth it including revenue. I still think that like I said instead of a Balanced Budget Amendment that there is a better alternative to help balance the Deficit/Debt and fix our Nation's fiscal problems as a long-term solution. We have to eventually cause our system of government is broken and left unchecked.
I guess we will leave it up to the Super Committee to decide on that. I just don't get why the Right Wing were using hostage tactics in order to get what they wanted on the recent Debt Crisis, sure we succeeded in avoiding default as an end result but holding the country hostage is just dirty politics IMO. Next time we hit the Debt Ceiling 2 years from now we better have a more united Government and we better not let something like what we witnessed happen again.
Sure in a bad economy it sounds like a bad idea to increase taxes but it might be worth it including revenue. I still think that like I said instead of a Balanced Budget Amendment that there is a better alternative to help balance the Deficit/Debt and fix our Nation's fiscal problems as a long-term solution. We have to eventually cause our system of government is broken and left unchecked.
I guess we will leave it up to the Super Committee to decide on that. I just don't get why the Right Wing were using hostage tactics in order to get what they wanted on the recent Debt Crisis, sure we succeeded in avoiding default as an end result but holding the country hostage is just dirty politics IMO. Next time we hit the Debt Ceiling 2 years from now we better have a more united Government and we better not let something like what we witnessed happen again.
Zyflair said:
Dude I am just trying to explain why we are at this point of where we are here now and why. I have trouble explaining things when I have to type it up VS just talking. I explain stuff better when I talk. But yeah if you think about it and why we are here at this point is because it is partly the war and Bush cashing checks and stuff when there was no money in the bank to pay for the bills. That is why we are in debt. Within the first 3 years of him being in office we were in debt 1 trillion dollars and over the years it got progressively worse. Then in 2008 the market crashed because of all the bounced checks that were brought upon by him. You don't realize but these people are backstabbers evil people on this earth now. My advice to you is to watch your back at all times because one of these days you will realize what is happening now and what will happen in the distant future. You will also realize when Clinton was in office none of this happened. Every time a Bush family member is president there has been a war a debt problem and also job loss and the list goes on. These are the reasons why we have a crisis and is the worst since the great depression in the 30's and into the 40's. This all ties into the debt crisis. It all adds up. If you think about these things you will see why we have a debt problem and he left the dirty work to Obama to clean up his mess which will take 10 more years at least. That is why you need to know along with everyone elses here so we can do things to help improve on it as Obama stated in his talk this morning that we all need to pitch in and help support the plan and more. Otherwise we are going to suffer major consequences. We do not want that to happen do we? I did not think so. You have to understand why and where I am coming from and why I bring up the most recent past. I am trying to keep it as clean as possible when I talk about what and why we are in this debt crisis. I may go off topic a bit but I try to keep it with in the thread lines. Sorry if you don't like it but you have to understand my points of views why and where I am coming from and how it fits into the thread also. The 2 major things right now are the war and because our last president lied cheated and laundered money when it was not supposed to be spent. That's why I have to add this stuff.
...so, from what I can understand what xxashxx is saying...well, of course I understand that this is your point of view and we technically can do nothing to change it, but I feel as if you're speaking as if your point of view is fact. I just...no offense, but...I...even with the limited political knowledge I know, I could find so many things wrong with that post.
1. Bush isn't THE reason why we are in debt...ironically, you yourself stated exactly what I'm saying, as you gave reasons as to why Bush CONTRIBUTED to the debt, not CREATED the reason for the debt.
2. As far as I know, there have been 2 Bush Presidents. Both are Republican. Of course something happened when the Bush presidents were in office, they're both republican.
3. I'm absolutely positive that Clinton had to face at least one issue about financial stuff (inb4 I don't know what I'm talking about). If you'd like to show me proof that Clinton didn't have a single incident in his 8 years of presidency in which he had to deal with an international debt--no matter how small it may have been--was building up, please do.
4. You say that we need to "pitch in" to stop the debt crisis. Not hating on my own country or anything, but that's kinda tough for us Americans. We're used to the prosperity we got after the 2 World Wars, aren't we? The baby booms that followed had children growing up in the times in which people could easily get things they wanted. After the Great Depression, Vietnam War, and Watergate incidents, people didn't exactly learn to trust the government (Yes, I know, the Great Depression wasn't the government's fault, but even I know that it didn't stop people from blaming the government), so why would every "wanty" American pitch in to help the government get out of something that they believe is the government's own fault?
I'm prepared to receive "OH NOEZ U HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS THAN ME AND I DON'T LIEK IT" types of messages, so responding to me on the thread and asking me things about what I said is worthless, as I'm not going to view this thread again; too much idiocy going on in here (not going to give out any names, since if I did, the cyber police would be after me) for my tastes. If you'd like to respond to me for whatever reason and tell me that everything that I think and know is wrong, feel free to shoot me a PM.
1. Bush isn't THE reason why we are in debt...ironically, you yourself stated exactly what I'm saying, as you gave reasons as to why Bush CONTRIBUTED to the debt, not CREATED the reason for the debt.
2. As far as I know, there have been 2 Bush Presidents. Both are Republican. Of course something happened when the Bush presidents were in office, they're both republican.
3. I'm absolutely positive that Clinton had to face at least one issue about financial stuff (inb4 I don't know what I'm talking about). If you'd like to show me proof that Clinton didn't have a single incident in his 8 years of presidency in which he had to deal with an international debt--no matter how small it may have been--was building up, please do.
4. You say that we need to "pitch in" to stop the debt crisis. Not hating on my own country or anything, but that's kinda tough for us Americans. We're used to the prosperity we got after the 2 World Wars, aren't we? The baby booms that followed had children growing up in the times in which people could easily get things they wanted. After the Great Depression, Vietnam War, and Watergate incidents, people didn't exactly learn to trust the government (Yes, I know, the Great Depression wasn't the government's fault, but even I know that it didn't stop people from blaming the government), so why would every "wanty" American pitch in to help the government get out of something that they believe is the government's own fault?
I'm prepared to receive "OH NOEZ U HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS THAN ME AND I DON'T LIEK IT" types of messages, so responding to me on the thread and asking me things about what I said is worthless, as I'm not going to view this thread again; too much idiocy going on in here (not going to give out any names, since if I did, the cyber police would be after me) for my tastes. If you'd like to respond to me for whatever reason and tell me that everything that I think and know is wrong, feel free to shoot me a PM.
Erm, that still has nothing to do with the current topic. Also, there is a major difference between typing and just talking about it. When you type, you have time to think it through. Typing like you're just talking to someone (as you did just now), just makes it sound like you're rambling (and it lets one heck of a paragraph).xxashxx said:
I'm going to basically line up your thoughts here and see if they have merit them:
- "But yeah if you think about it and why we are here at this point is because it is partly the war and Bush cashing checks and stuff when there was no money in the bank to pay for the bills. That is why we are in debt."
I will not comment on the war, simply because that's murky water. But when you say Bush was taking out money he didn't have, something doesn't add up here. The issues of government deficits started to become a major problem when Reagan was at the chair. The debts have been piling before then. Moreover, George H. W. Bush (going by full name to avoid confusion), was just as dedicated as, if not more than, Clinton in putting hte deficits to an end. So much that he even went against his own party and raised taxes despite their protests.
- "Then in 2008 the market crashed because of all the bounced checks that were brought upon by him. You don't realize but these people are backstabbers evil people on this earth now."
Your second statment here is totally logical. Just saying. Also, if you seriously believe that the panic of 2008 was caused by reckless spending from the adminstration, do some more research. You obviously have no idea what factors surrounded that recession.
- "You will also realize when Clinton was in office none of this happened. Every time a Bush family member is president there has been a war a debt problem and also job loss and the list goes on."
You have to know that Clinton actually set up the Bush adminstration into troubling waters from the get go. The tax increase Clinton implemented on the richer around the end of his second term partially stagnated the waters; by the time the Bush family got presidency, the economy was already going down. Clinton simply got elected into an already-prosperous time. By the time he left, it wasn't so great. Just because the economy at the Bush administration was definitely far from great doesn't warrant you to say that they're to blame for having things that way, especially if the trend was already pointing downhill.
- "These are the reasons why we have a crisis and is the worst since the great depression in the 30's and into the 40's. This all ties into the debt crisis. It all adds up."
No it doesn't. The Great Depression was formed by many things, but a debt crisis wasn't even close to reaching that list. The US was having completely different problems in the 30s than in comparison to 2008: banks back then were uninsured and thus quickly formed doubts about many loans, barring a good number of them. This in turn stunted business growth and even aided in the failure of plenty. The government just help dug the grave as it tried to protect its own business with tariffs, slowing the economy even further as international trade with the US was discouraged. Please tell me how any of this was similar to the crash of 2008.
- "That is why you need to know along with everyone elses here so we can do things to help improve on it as Obama stated in his talk this morning that we all need to pitch in and help support the plan and more. Otherwise we are going to suffer major consequences."
Pokefan covered this pretty much, however, supporting a plan that doesn't work will still present "major consequences" anyway. Just thought I'd let you know the flaw in your reasoning there.
Last but not least:
- "I may go off topic a bit but I try to keep it with in the thread lines. Sorry if you don't like it but you have to understand my points of views why and where I am coming from and how it fits into the thread also. The 2 major things right now are the war and because our last president lied cheated and laundered money when it was not supposed to be spent. That's why I have to add this stuff."
You have absolutely failed to convince me how your rant was "within thread lines". I can't understand your points if there was a drastic absense of support (Should I go ahead and do a "citation needed"?). Everything you've said was overall baseless, and to top it off, you decided to claim that the "war" and "our last president" is the most important thing right now. I'm not even going to ask why you keep insisting that he "cheats and laundered money" with no reference at all, but to make it sound that the past pertains to the present within the thread's discussion is completely bogus. We are on a discussion on debt ceiling legislature, not old financial problems and government scandals (of whatever that you're thinking of and failed to specifically mention) in the past.
I think I'm officially done.
Ty W said:
OMG you guys just dont get it do you? He cheated the presidency by having the votes all recounted when Gore was supposed to be the president initially. Do you not know that IS cheating? Then 4 years later he did again when Kerry and Edwards were up to run for president. Is that or is it not called cheating Hello???If you guys paid attention you would have know that he cheated. 2nd he lied on that ship when he said the war was over when technically it was over. You guys need to pay more attention to what is going on around you and listen carefully to what is going on. Bush is the reason why we are in debt. With all his bank spending when there was NO MONEY WHATSOEVER in the bank when he was writing checks that could not be cashed and he kept on doing it while he was president. Can't you guys see this at all? The Bush family are crooks and evil ones at that. We have official book explaining in great detail on how these people operate. Forgot to mention they also have risin the price of oil because the family are oil drivien people which in sipler terms means he is an oil man. I hope you guys will find out one day because you will find out what really has been going on the last 100 years. Yeah it goes back about that far. That is all I can say because you guys just don't understand.
Bush's policies were not the only reason for the economy taking a dip, but they did hurt things. There was reckless spending. Housing, banks, and other things are to blame for the downturn too.
Incase you didn't know the U.S. Credit Rating has been officially kept to AAA but with a Warning that the U.S. Government should raise the Debt Ceiling in a more bipartisan manner when we hit it again in 2013. The Debt Deal was kinda weak but at least we avoided default and that was the only thing good that came out of this bill, had it not of passed the consequences would have been dire.
The big problem now after all is said and done with the Debt Ceiling Raise is that Obama has no immediate plan to fix unemployment or increase job growth in America, he's too concerned about his re-election and not doing his job when he should. That's part of the problem with some Democrats they get too laid back on the job, take for example Bill Clinton he hardly did a thing and the only Democrats that have made substantial progress in our Country's history is FDR and Jimmy Carter unless I'm missing a few, feel free to remind me.
The big problem now after all is said and done with the Debt Ceiling Raise is that Obama has no immediate plan to fix unemployment or increase job growth in America, he's too concerned about his re-election and not doing his job when he should. That's part of the problem with some Democrats they get too laid back on the job, take for example Bill Clinton he hardly did a thing and the only Democrats that have made substantial progress in our Country's history is FDR and Jimmy Carter unless I'm missing a few, feel free to remind me.
Politicians in general can get too laid back on the job. I wouldn't blame one party over the other on that.
I see that you've still totally failed to have any actual support or proof, not to mention that you're just slandering those people without consideration of pretty much anything else. Clearly, you didn't read my post or you won't be making the exact same mistakes. Cool down and read what you write before you post.xxashxx said:
Zyfflair: Don't you see what SR mentioned above in his posts. Not only was it Bush but also his policies too. As I said I could not explain it like I would if I was talking. I saw your posts but they don't make any sense because you don't seem to see that Bush's policies were and still are hurting the country. The war is also costing big money and not to mention lives as well. This is why we needed to raise the debt ceiling. If we had not our rating would have dropped to AA and we would be worse off right now. My question to you is why can't you see that? That is why I don't understand why you think my posts don't count toward this thread when Bush and his hurtful policies have a major influence on the country itself. Why can't you see that these have a major role in the debt? If you watched carefully you would see it also man. This is a big deal and these factors factor into the debt.
Give me one online source. Just one source that proves your point. If you can't find a single article that explains why Bush ruined the economy, then you only alone on your point. You keep wondering why I don't see the same way you do, but the truth is that you didn't back anything up. You just keep mention wars - which is not even a clear factor concerning the economy (so stop mention the it!) - and bouncing checks - something you have yet to prove to me.xxashxx said:
Actually, wars do have something to do with the economy. The US's debt is so high currently not only due to spending on the homefront, but also in wars in the Middle East across seas, most of which came from Bush. Obama is trying to remove troops from these areas, which will, in the long run, save the government money.
I'm more than aware of that, but even the war cannot completely account for how sluggish the US has gotten its economy into. In addition, even wars do contribute back somewhat, keeping war-related production on the go and keeping jobs for people like Harris and other technological companies. xxashxx is simply making a ton of claims with no explanation in his post, unlike you, Muddy.
However his claim of Bush placing us in this debt does make sense, he just did not back it up, but I am going to. While I realize that's it's both Bush's and Obama's fault this country is where it's, Bush did do a good job getting us there. If I recall, Clinton managed to get us out of debt, which through constant spending on wars, Bush managed to build up again.
And Zyflair, while I do agree on the part about wars, it only applies in some cases. This time period in the US is an example where it does not.
And Zyflair, while I do agree on the part about wars, it only applies in some cases. This time period in the US is an example where it does not.