Finished Mafia 53: Twilight's Kingdom

[Keeper of Night]

Add Jabber to the confirmed scum list:
You learned Jabberwock's Farewell Ability permanently buffs the last player his Active Ability was used on, and further allows the Deadly Alliance's factional night kill on that night to pierce any protection their target has.

We have to be careful with when we lynch him though, he'll buff whoever the other scum is as soon as we do.

 

[Camoclone]

##UNVOTE:
##VOTE: JABBERWOCK

 

[Camoclone]

Keeper is 100% town.

 

[Mariano11887]

Add Jabber to the confirmed scum list:
You learned Jabberwock's Farewell Ability permanently buffs the last player his Active Ability was used on, and further allows the Deadly Alliance's factional night kill on that night to pierce any protection their target has.

We have to be careful with when we lynch him though, he'll buff whoever the other scum is as soon as we do.

Interesting...
Ok, I admit you were in my scumlist, but if we lynch Jabberwock and this is true, you'll be confirmed town. I'll give you a vote of confidence.
##VOTE: Jabberwock.

 

[PMJ]

Zone is on V/LA until Friday.

Jabberwock is at L-3.

 

[Jabberwock]

Scum decided it would be a good idea to remove my protection.

Wdym by that? Scum didn't have a nightkill at all last night as per Luis's Farewell Ability.

Add Jabber to the confirmed scum list:
You learned Jabberwock's Farewell Ability permanently buffs the last player his Active Ability was used on, and further allows the Deadly Alliance's factional night kill on that night to pierce any protection their target has.

We have to be careful with when we lynch him though, he'll buff whoever the other scum is as soon as we do.

Idk what my Farewell Ability does, but that seems totally plausible given my Active Ability:

Active Ability: Strong Work Ethic
You have an admirable work ethic, and that's something that can be lacking in other ponies when things seem bleak. Fortunately, you're here to fix that. Once a night, you may PM me ##INSPIRE: Player. You will instill your strong work ethic in that player, allowing them to experience some sort of buff to their role during the next night. Not everypony needs inspiration, though, so some players will not get the benefits of this ability. You can't use this on the same player during consecutive nights. (You can use this on night zero.)

N0 Keeper, N1 scattered, N2 Camo, N3 Celever.

FoS on anybody who thinks that having a Farewell Ability that benefits scum makes me confoscum, though. Luis's Farewell Ability was detrimental to the scum; there's no reason why a town-aligned Farewell Ability can't benefit them.

 

[Camoclone]

You learned Jabberwock's Farewell Ability permanently buffs the last player his Active Ability was used on, and further allows the Deadly Alliance's factional night kill on that night to pierce any protection their target has.

It's worth noting that Luis' flipped Farewell Ability doesn't refer to scum as the Deadly Alliance but instead as "teammates".

 

[GM DracLord]

Voting Jabber now without much other reason than Keeper's claim felt like just following a wagon

Also, looks like someone was blocking me. Not like if it's activated I can gain new insight

 

[Keeper of Night]

I can confirm Jabber's ability claim, did previously in fact, since I was boosted N0. Camo is right, Deadly Alliance vs Teammates for flavor makes the difference. This adds up to make Jabber very likely, if not confirmed, town. Thus:

##VOTE: ZONE Q11

 

[GM DracLord]

I can confirm Jabber's ability claim, did previously in fact, since I was boosted N0. Camo is right, Deadly Alliance vs Teammates for flavor makes the difference. This adds up to make Jabber very likely, if not confirmed, town. Thus:

##VOTE: ZONE Q11

But as you stated that cant reall confirm his alignment so if i were to vote him just beacuse you said it like that it would be just wagoning

 

[bbninjas]

I do have some difficulty taking NP's push on Camo seriously, because it is the lynch that NP would most prefer after Camo pushed hard for a policy lynch on NP. There's a clear bias there.

Keeper, doesn't your ability check people's safe claims if they have one, making it a poor tool for discerning alignment specifically? (It would also not clear Jabber, since the safe claim would absolutely have "Deadly Alliance" vs 'teammates'.

It's worth noting that Luis' flipped Farewell Ability doesn't refer to scum as the Deadly Alliance but instead as "teammates".

Why did you vote Jabber despite having realised this?

 

[Keeper of Night]

But we do know that Jabber does buff players. It makes no sense for scum to boost townie abilities unless it fulfilled some form of other win condition. But since we know he can't be indie, it rules that out.
Unless there's some other convoluted part of the ability that ties it back to being scum, I just can't see it. I know he boosted me, and there were no side effects or flavor to indicate anything negative of the sort. I'm inclined to believe it.

 

[bbninjas]

But we do know that Jabber does buff players. It makes no sense for scum to boost townie abilities unless it fulfilled some form of other win condition. But since we know he can't be indie, it rules that out.
Unless there's some other convoluted part of the ability that ties it back to being scum, I just can't see it. I know he boosted me, and there were no side effects or flavor to indicate anything negative of the sort. I'm inclined to believe it.

Jabber absolutely could be playing the towncred game with his ability, I think it would be foolish to ignore that possibility.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Add Jabber to the confirmed scum list:
You learned Jabberwock's Farewell Ability permanently buffs the last player his Active Ability was used on, and further allows the Deadly Alliance's factional night kill on that night to pierce any protection their target has.

We have to be careful with when we lynch him though, he'll buff whoever the other scum is as soon as we do.

Deadly Alliance we already know has a way to strongman a kill without this. Not sure how much this result is scum indicative.
If we are lynching him though, either today or after a potential buddy dies is a good option. Wouldn't want him to be buffing a scumbuddy permanently.

Wdym by that? Scum didn't have a nightkill at all last night as per Luis's Farewell Ability.

Didn't you read the rest of the Farewell Ability? <3

I can confirm Jabber's ability claim, did previously in fact, since I was boosted N0. Camo is right, Deadly Alliance vs Teammates for flavor makes the difference. This adds up to make Jabber very likely, if not confirmed, town. Thus:

##VOTE: ZONE Q11

Camo isn't right. Camo just threw that comment out; he never unvoted showing he did not think Jabber is very likely town. Throwaway comments like that aren't town solving.
PMJ even told us he would add wording/formatting inconsistencies just for this purpose.

I do have some difficulty taking NP's push on Camo seriously, because it is the lynch that NP would most prefer after Camo pushed hard for a policy lynch on NP. There's a clear bias there.

BB maybe if you're town you can look at Camo's posts and tell me how little he cares about lynching scum. But wait-you're his buddy. I've already said that much haven't I?
You if town know that Camo can answer your easy pitch with a semblance of a good answer. (He can't, fwiw, respond to my case because he knows he hasn't cared about scumhunting this game, so he just attacks my trustability rather than my accusations.) Sometimes, it's better to acknowledge the scummy things in front of you than let scum squirm away.

 

[Camoclone]

I do have some difficulty taking NP's push on Camo seriously, because it is the lynch that NP would most prefer after Camo pushed hard for a policy lynch on NP. There's a clear bias there.

Keeper, doesn't your ability check people's safe claims if they have one, making it a poor tool for discerning alignment specifically? (It would also not clear Jabber, since the safe claim would absolutely have "Deadly Alliance" vs 'teammates'.


Why did you vote Jabber despite having realised this?

Because I wanted an answer from Jabber. Luis crumbled under similar pressure yesterday and there is no reason not to.

 

[Camoclone]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ZONE Q11

Might as well move on to the guy who actually slipped.

 

[Mariano11887]

Ok, Jabber's explanation is reasonable. ##UNVOTE.

I'll review Camo's previous posts and check NP's motives against him.
Another person I want to check is Drac.

 

[Jabberwock]

Didn't you read the rest of the Farewell Ability? <3

Ahh.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ZONE Q11

Might as well move on to the guy who actually slipped.

This isn't an unvote or a revote.

–––––

I got a belated "Day 4 update" from PMJ saying I'd had a dream where I saw that at least one of bb, Cel, and Camo is definitely scum. I don't have any Abilities or w/e that have to do with dreams or seering, so idk where it came from.

Don't have time rn to analyze posts; will get to this after school. Kinda feeling bb > Camo > Cel but that could also totally be OMGUS talking so I'll have to figure it out later.

@Celever get over here.

 

[Mariano11887]

I reviewed quaking's and Camo's posts during the game. These are the things I isolated that caught my attention:

quakingpunch

1) A loooot of pressure on jplap in Day 1

##Unvote
##Vote: jplap

I'm agreeing with a lot of the reasoning I'm seeing about jplap, especially the scumslip. Something I haven't seen brought up though is the timing of when jplap revealed the part of his role. It was already after a little bit of pressure from RVS, so I could see it being a move from him to divert suspicion from himself early on, by showing others that he can be trusted. It's kind of a weak point, but I think it's worth being brought up, after a couple of stronger points against jplap (ability usage, potential scumslip), have already been brought up by others.

2) Proposing a scummy question that is far more useful for scum than for town.

I like the roz lynch right now, but I'm waiting until a vote count is posted to place my vote, since I don't want a premature hammer. While we're on the question suggestions, what do you guys think of "Is the night kill able to be blocked without a doctor?" Mariano's question is fine, but I feel like PMJ might veto it, since it would be too powerful, since all town who have QTs could then unconditionally trust eachother. Would this work as a back-up? It could come in handy if there's no nightkill during a night, and potentially provide a way of catching scum if they are blocked.

I was thinking about it more in a "Is the NK an Active Ability or something else?" If it's an Active Ability, it likely could be prevented by roleblockers or other roles in the set-up, versus if it was something else. Scum would probably already know how their NK works, which could help us out later down the line, if there's a roleblocker or something of the sort in this type of set-up, which there usually is. Though I do how this is a double-edged sword. If jplap's scum, he'll know the answer to this question already, and have a free night to ask a question that benefits scum.

When I proposed it in the case I built on quaking before he subbed-out, he answered the following:

2) I’m not going to address this right now, because my reasoning for asking this question directly relates to my role.

@Camoclone What can you say about that last quote?

Camoclone:

3) Voting jplap thinking he is town. Why in the world someone would vote a player who thinks is town? Camo says it's because he'll be modkilled, but anyway, if he thinks is town, he should vote someone he thinks is scum.

##VOTE: PROFESSOR_JLAP

This is honestly mostly because he's going to get modkilled anyways. I think JLAP is town and will be around to switch if we can decide on someone.

4)

I never said I wanted to lynch NP today. However I also crunched the numbers on lynching NP today and am completely fine with those odds. I don’t think they give us a significantly worse chance of winning since we are given two lynches tomorrow..

I don't understand this. After several threats to NP saying he'll be lynched because NP was hesitant to fully claim, now Camo says "I never said I wanted to lynch NP today"?

5) NP attacks Camo for not doing anything pro-town. Camo's only try to scumhunt is by pressuring Zone hard, which at this point sounds like tunneling.

Given this information, I'd be fine with lynching Camo. On the other hand, there were some other things from bbninjas that also sounded strange to me. I want to review bb's posts too before making a decision.

 

[Camoclone]

@Camoclone What can you say about that last quote?

I'm a modified JOAT. Here's one of my abilities:

- Ability 2: You will put on a show for everypony, preventing the use of all other Active Abilities.

3) Voting jplap thinking he is town. Why in the world someone would vote a player who thinks is town? Camo says it's because he'll be modkilled, but anyway, if he thinks is town, he should vote someone he thinks is scum.

My main scum read that day was Zone Q11 but Zone had just claimed a "seer" role and I didn't want to risk anything. I was subbed in mid day two and didn't have a strong enough grasp on the game yet.

I don't understand this. After several threats to NP saying he'll be lynched because NP was hesitant to fully claim, now Camo says "I never said I wanted to lynch NP today"?

Again, I never said he will be lynched. I suggest you read back and actually see what happened. P r e s s u r e. I definitely wouldn't have minded lynching NP though.

NP attacks Camo for not doing anything pro-town. Camo's only try to scumhunt is by pressuring Zone hard, which at this point sounds like tunneling.

This is a poor point on me. I was subbed in mid day two I haven't had much time to do anything. Day two I pushed Zone Q11 (I was subbed in very late). Day three we had a confirmed indie then immediately after we had a confirmed scum. Scumhunting after the lynch is figured out is bad 99% of the time.

As for Jabber's update I'm going to need to read back.

##UNVOTE:
##VOTE: ZONE Q11