I have a question for @Keeper of Night
Did you use your ability on yourself on Night 0 and found you are a bomb?
Did you use your ability on yourself on Night 0 and found you are a bomb?
Finished Mafia 53: Twilight's Kingdom
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@Camoclone @Celever @bbninjas Thoughts?
Also if this is one time can the person who did this claim such?
Since the lynch isn't decided today, what's your PoE?
Mariano, Keeper scanned me N0. I would suggest we don't ask his Farewell Ability's identity; scum want to know that more than town.
@PMJ A member of the Deadly Alliance alliance would be alerted if they were affected by this farewell Ability right?scattered mind has been killed. scattered mind was:
You are Princess Luna, and you are aligned with the Equestrian Defense Force.
You are one of the two god-princesses of Equestria along with your older sister, Celestia. After you both overthrew Discord as ruler of Equestria, the two of you ruled together, with her raising the sun and overseeing the day, and you raising the moon and overseeing the night. You noticed that ponies always slept through the beautiful night you created while frolicking in Celestia's day, and this made you bitter and jealous, resulting in your transformation into Nightmare Moon. After a thousand-year banishment to the moon, you were finally freed and restored by Twilight Sparkle and her friends, and for this you are eternally grateful. Since then, you've assisted Twilight in matters of being a princess, as well as appeared to other ponies to help them with their problems, especially problems involving their fears. Twilight has been suffering from terrible nightmares since the death of her parents, and you've made it your job to save her from them the same way she and her friends saved you from yours.
Active Ability: Astral Projection
One of your unique abilities is to manipulate dreams - you can see them, project yourself into them, even reshape them entirely. You can use this ability to watch over somepony and keep them safe. Once during any night, you may PM me ##PROTECT: Player to send a vision of yourself to that player, warding off any potential attackers. If any kills resolve on that player tonight, they will fail.
Farewell Ability: Fountain of Dreams
Farewell, Luna. You've been weakened to the point of normal mortality, and now you are dead. You still have enough power leftover to make one last foray into the world of dreams. At any time before the next day ends, you may PM me ##DREAM: Player. If that player is aligned with the Equestrian Defense Force, you will send that player a dream during the next night about three randomly chosen other players, at least one of which is aligned with the Deadly Alliance; if that player is aligned with the Deadly Alliance, they will suffer from narcoleptic episodes for the rest of the game, causing them to fall asleep at random times. Their Active Abilities will fail 30% of the time when used. (This includes the night kill.)
Win Condition: All threats eliminated
It's gotta be bbninjas.
I'm not asking for details of his Farewell Ability.
If Keeper scanned you at Night 0, then the point I made at the beggining of Day 3 is pretty valid! How did Keeper know very early at Day 1 that he was a bomb?
The only explanation that comes to my mind is him scanning himself at Night 0, but he scanned NP... How's that possible?
Then why isn't your vote on him?
I believe he said himself that he started with the knowledge of his own Farewell Ability.
@Mariano Did you claim being a jack-of-all-trades variant?
We really need someone to confirm Jabber's dream claim - simply because, if Jabber is mafian and lying, claiming a dream is a brilliant play because it can easily secure three mislynches on three players before the town figures what's up. Additionally, I find Jabber an odd choice for a dreamer because he's not clear, he's under the radar, etc -- why didn't the dreamer choose on Celever, or Mariano, or NP even, who were more-or-less cleared as 'non-scum'?
--- Just saw the scattered role-flip that Camo reposted. There's still the question - Why did scattered choose Jabber, despite other options? - but pending PMJ's answer to Camo's question, I think that's confirmation enough. Presumably, a mafian would not receive any mention of a dream - just that they will suffer from narcoleptic episodes. In Jabber's favour, he didn't know where the results came from. However, for Jabber to have faked results without risking a counterclaim, he had to have realised that the 'narcoleptic episodes' (and dreaming) came from scattered's role, and thus he should have known that scattered's role caused his dream.
I'd be for lynching ##VOTE: Camo since I can clear myself via my role if needed (so not me), and Celever either is town or both he and Luis are bloody good actors (so not him). The thread-based evidence that indicates Camo as mafian, is that he pushed hard for NP's policy lynch, despite the lynchproof claim - 'wasting' two lynches to get rid of the indie is the optimal play for the mafian, as there is no target on their back for two days, and they can frame it as "indies are detrimental to the town". While Cel did this too, if Cel was mafian, it was very odd choice to drop from this train, despite it being pro-mafian and well-supported, to then push for a mafian lynch. If Cel wanted to bus Luis, he could have done it after the indie lynches. I've had some reservations about pushing Camo's lynch on previous days as some general elements about his play this game seem to be town indicative, but the more I think about it, the more I see them as 'minor pro-town behaviours sprinkled lightly throughout the game' - i.e. insubstantial and insignificant.
In this situation, a Camo / Drac scumteam makes complete sense (Drac and Camo have barely interacted with each other, from memory). Speaking of which @Celever, still wanting to know: What makes you think Drac is town?
We really need someone to confirm Jabber's dream claim - simply because, if Jabber is mafian and lying, claiming a dream is a brilliant play because it can easily secure three mislynches on three players before the town figures what's up. Additionally, I find Jabber an odd choice for a dreamer because he's not clear, he's under the radar, etc -- why didn't the dreamer choose on Celever, or Mariano, or NP even, who were more-or-less cleared as 'non-scum'?
--- Just saw the scattered role-flip that Camo reposted. There's still the question - Why did scattered choose Jabber, despite other options? - but pending PMJ's answer to Camo's question, I think that's confirmation enough. Presumably, a mafian would not receive any mention of a dream - just that they will suffer from narcoleptic episodes. In Jabber's favour, he didn't know where the results came from. However, for Jabber to have faked results without risking a counterclaim, he had to have realised that the 'narcoleptic episodes' (and dreaming) came from scattered's role, and thus he should have known that scattered's role caused his dream.
I'd be for lynching ##VOTE: Camo since I can clear myself via my role if needed (so not me), and Celever either is town or both he and Luis are bloody good actors (so not him). The thread-based evidence that indicates Camo as mafian, is that he pushed hard for NP's policy lynch, despite the lynchproof claim - 'wasting' two lynches to get rid of the indie is the optimal play for the mafian, as there is no target on their back for two days, and they can frame it as "indies are detrimental to the town". While Cel did this too, if Cel was mafian, it was very odd choice to drop from this train, despite it being pro-mafian and well-supported, to then push for a mafian lynch. If Cel wanted to bus Luis, he could have done it after the indie lynches. I've had some reservations about pushing Camo's lynch on previous days as some general elements about his play this game seem to be town indicative, but the more I think about it, the more I see them as 'minor pro-town behaviours sprinkled lightly throughout the game' - i.e. insubstantial and insignificant.
In this situation, a Camo / Drac scumteam makes complete sense (Drac and Camo have barely interacted with each other, from memory). Speaking of which @Celever, still wanting to know: What makes you think Drac is town?
I haven't really pushed for your lynch, though? How is there's OMGUS talking there, in relation to my name?
EVERYBODY DON'T VOTE CAMO HE'S AT L-1.
Lol what did Camo ever do that's pro-town?
/sigh re: the vote, my bad.
The first paragraph is rather weak. The bolded is either incorrect / misused meta-read or some unsubstantiated statement. Camo has predictably pushed for indie policy lynches in the past, unlike what you said. From memory, Camo hasn't fished beyond your role - and forcing an indie to be transparent was a necessary call from a town perspective. Even if Camo did give 'zero thoughts' during Day 3, which is a false statement in its-self, Day 3 was a seer day (you can't really hunt a scum that is confirmed), and Camo will consistently avoid discussing his future lynch options before the day arrives. You suggest that Camo tried to "keep the town divided", but I don't see where this idea came from. Camo's general condescending behaviour towards you (and not to anyone else) is probably because you've been hard tunneling him, which is at least partially influenced by your bias - Camo being gone is ideal for you wincon. I'm pretty sure he's properly responded to you anyway, at some point.
The undertones of the second and third paragraph, that Camo doesn't care about lynching scum, is more legitimate. Quaking fits in this mold very nicely. Whether this is also true for Camo is much harder to determine, because he naturally appears to be 'scumhunting' in the general sense - pressuring, pushing, coming to conclusions about alignments, etc. If you are right about Camo not pushing a counter-wagon, this becomes one bit of solid evidence. That's not true for the other evidence, however; you disregard his scumhunting on Zone (...why?), and I suspect this "three hours left" thing is missing important context --- it is common to ask another player "to suggest an alternate lynch", but there are specific context that goes along with this: "I think so-and-so should be lynched, and if you think I am wrong, then you need to suggest someone else." I'd imagine that this is what happened in the situation you are referring to.
And this is your bias against Camo talking. Just a few things from memory; Camo has been the main person naming other people clear. Keeper (on a few accounts?), Mariano (I think), confirming Jabber just now, etc. Celever, etc. He is using his votes well (i.e. on Luis, Jabber, you, etc) and getting some good reactions, and I'd say he's scumhunting, contrary to what you say. Camo's been more transparent then usual (even when responding to Mariano).
The first paragraph is rather weak. The bolded is either incorrect / misused meta-read or some unsubstantiated statement. Camo has predictably pushed for indie policy lynches in the past, unlike what you said. From memory, Camo hasn't fished beyond your role - and forcing an indie to be transparent was a necessary call from a town perspective. Even if Camo did give 'zero thoughts' during Day 3, which is a false statement in its-self, Day 3 was a seer day (you can't really hunt a scum that is confirmed), and Camo will consistently avoid discussing his future lynch options before the day arrives. You suggest that Camo tried to "keep the town divided", but I don't see where this idea came from. Camo's general condescending behaviour towards you (and not to anyone else) is probably because you've been hard tunneling him, which is at least partially influenced by your bias - Camo being gone is ideal for you wincon. I'm pretty sure he's properly responded to you anyway, at some point.
The undertones of the second and third paragraph, that Camo doesn't care about lynching scum, is more legitimate. Quaking fits in this mold very nicely. Whether this is also true for Camo is much harder to determine, because he naturally appears to be 'scumhunting' in the general sense - pressuring, pushing, coming to conclusions about alignments, etc. If you are right about Camo not pushing a counter-wagon, this becomes one bit of solid evidence. That's not true for the other evidence, however; you disregard his scumhunting on Zone (...why?), and I suspect this "three hours left" thing is missing important context --- it is common to ask another player "to suggest an alternate lynch", but there are specific context that goes along with this: "I think so-and-so should be lynched, and if you think I am wrong, then you need to suggest someone else." I'd imagine that this is what happened in the situation you are referring to.
FYI I'm coming down with a cold so yeah.
IDR him ever responding to me besides "NP just wants to survive" and "I'm not scared of you".
Would quote for truth that Camo asked others to suggest an alternate lynch but didn't suggest one himself but multiquote seems to be broken (just look at all posts from the time he says there are 3 hours left to the end of the day).
Eh I don't recall any of this townhunting from Camo. I'd like to see quotes on this.
Yeah Camo pushing a policy lynch on an indie isn't bad by itself. But remember that he didn't intend for me to be lynched and still didn't try to find any scum on that day. Hunting an indie is fine, but doing that and not going after scum at all is kinda bad.
IDR him ever responding to me besides "NP just wants to survive" and "I'm not scared of you".
I disregarded what he said about Zone because he disregarded what I said about Mariano D1 in his own argument for not pushing hard enough.
Would quote for truth that Camo asked others to suggest an alternate lynch but didn't suggest one himself but multiquote seems to be broken (just look at all posts from the time he says there are 3 hours left to the end of the day).
PMJ
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No, they would not, but the Farewell Ability itself is public knowledge - which includes the part where a town-aligned player would indeed receive a dream. Any messages purported to be from me should be taken with a grain of salt.
It is 5 to lynch. Numbers in parentheses represent the post number of the vote.
@Camoclone - Ability Effect (918), Ability Effect (918), @NinjaPenguin (919)
@Zone Q11 -
@Jabberwock -
Not voting: @GM DracLord, Camoclone, bbninjas, Mariano, Jabberwock, @Celever, Zone
This is current as of post 953. Everyone is tagged for activity.
Day 4 ends Sunday, September 9, at 4 PM CST (Timer), or whenever someone is lynched.
You've approached every scenario involving me today with the assumption that I'm scum. It's an awful mindset to have as town, such that I can't actually see you-as-town playing that way. You're probably my first choice to lynch of the three from my dreamlist.
Speaking of which, I'm gonna stand by my initial assessment of bb > Camo > Celever.
bbninjas:
- keeps assuming I'm scum and is taking it to the logical extreme with weird WIFOM trains of thought
- advocated for not lynching Luis (confoscum) and rather working with him to take out NP
- covering his bases re: Camo as an alternative lynch to his own (makes sure to point out that Camo's done some townie things as well, so it doesn't look quite so bad when Camo flips and he can more easily pivot to Celever)
- weird voting patterns around jplap and NP
- is technically not confotown
I also wanna point out that both @bbninjas and @Camoclone have indicated that they are able to clear themselves. You should both absolutely do that.
I'm quite surprised that Camo can prove he's town considering the number of apparent confo-towns already in play. Eitherway, my role is Twilight - its existence confirmed by Roz's Farewell Ability (Day 1 lynch), and later by PMJ's comment about the Twilight role, here.
Sorry for not taking you at face value? You're not cleared and as I pointed out, lying about a dream would be a brilliant play for scum, so - yeah - I'm going to take precautions. Just as I shouldn't assume that you're town, I'm not assuming that you're scum -- in fact, I came to the conclusion that you're probably tell the truth right here.
- Remember that game where I defended "confo-scum" Tapu Lele? People tried to get me lynched for the same reasons: explicitly defending a confoscum, and I have the same response again: for this to make sense, you'd have to assume that a) I would take the obvious risk of looking terrible just to keep a buddy alive for one more day (okay what?) and b) my proposal made no logical sense whatsoever, and I think this is quite the opposite of the truth.
- this is WIFOM / tunnel vision. Maybe I'm just thinking about what I'm doing?
@Jabberwock Why are you assuming that Camo is town? Your point, that I am intentionally pushing a mislynch on Camo (i.e. a lynch on town), and trying to look good about it, only makes sense under the assumption that Camo is town.
Sorry for not taking you at face value? You're not cleared and as I pointed out, lying about a dream would be a brilliant play for scum, so - yeah - I'm going to take precautions. Just as I shouldn't assume that you're town, I'm not assuming that you're scum -- in fact, I came to the conclusion that you're probably tell the truth right here.
- Remember that game where I defended "confo-scum" Tapu Lele? People tried to get me lynched for the same reasons: explicitly defending a confoscum, and I have the same response again: for this to make sense, you'd have to assume that a) I would take the obvious risk of looking terrible just to keep a buddy alive for one more day (okay what?) and b) my proposal made no logical sense whatsoever, and I think this is quite the opposite of the truth.
- this is WIFOM / tunnel vision. Maybe I'm just thinking about what I'm doing?
@Jabberwock Why are you assuming that Camo is town? Your point, that I am intentionally pushing a mislynch on Camo (i.e. a lynch on town), and trying to look good about it, only makes sense under the assumption that Camo is town.
tbh I'm not sure why I'm arguing over your points on Camo, NP, considering that I think Camo is scum in light of Jabber's claim. Basically I don't think your points make sense for the reasons given, but unless it'd be productive for me to repeat that / go into further detail, I won't be bringing it up anymore beyond this post.
Implies that Jabber is town "It's worth noting that Luis's flipped ability doesn't refer to scum as the Deadly Alliance"
Stopped pushing Zone Day 2 because "he claimed to clear Celever and we don't have time to mess with that right now", which is psuedo-town hunting (at least, not tunnel behaviour)
Might be a few more of these simpler ones that I missed in my quick skim back
Then we have scumhunts / ISOs on scattered, and Zone, etc which debunks the "not scumhunting" theory of yours
"Keeper is 100% town"
Implies that Jabber is town "It's worth noting that Luis's flipped ability doesn't refer to scum as the Deadly Alliance"
Stopped pushing Zone Day 2 because "he claimed to clear Celever and we don't have time to mess with that right now", which is psuedo-town hunting (at least, not tunnel behaviour)
Might be a few more of these simpler ones that I missed in my quick skim back
Then we have scumhunts / ISOs on scattered, and Zone, etc which debunks the "not scumhunting" theory of yours
Camo didn't try to find any scum after that because Celever confirmed Luis as scum very shortly after. This point was in Camo's recent post directed at Mariano, and it makes sense.
Well no comment then. I don't think Camo's push of Zone should be disregarded - you disregarding it sounds like an OMGUS move.
Camo wanted a Zone lynch. Camo realises that the day was ending very soon, and calls for decisions to be made. The majority didn't agree with Camo, and so Camo was like "you guys need to offer an alternative lynch [to Zone]". I don't see how this is problematic; Camo's response follows the context that I speculated about earlier.
@Jabberwock Do you have anything to report re: the oracle?
I didn't (and still don't) believe Jabber is confirmed scum just because of his ability. Apparently that wasn't made clear enough.
Likely, so long as Jabber doesn't target suspected scum with his ability, he'll just buff a towny if or when he dies. Which makes it a bit trickier for scum. I like that there's a bit of a minefield out here for them with nightkills, since they normally wouldn't have to be as careful as us with kills. Love it.
If you have a case, make it. You've done nothing but ask questions about my bomb ability for the last two days.
Or, other option, Jabber is lying entirely. He was affected negatively by SM's ability but grabbed three names to present as iffy to the town because none of them are confirmed or even very likely town.
But given my last stance on his claimed ability, I'm inclined to still believe it. It's like Sudoku down in here.
Likely, so long as Jabber doesn't target suspected scum with his ability, he'll just buff a towny if or when he dies. Which makes it a bit trickier for scum. I like that there's a bit of a minefield out here for them with nightkills, since they normally wouldn't have to be as careful as us with kills. Love it.
...On N0? Stretchin' a bit there.
I really cannot see why I need to justify whether or not I actually am a bomb to you? Or why you feel like I need to? Like, the ability could not exist at all. Or I could have used my head and put two and two together knowing that my character is a political leader thing with an ability named "Blank Game" and took a stab that "ohey that means anybody that kills me is affected negatively" and rolled with it until I could confirm it.
If you have a case, make it. You've done nothing but ask questions about my bomb ability for the last two days.
Camo is at L-1 right now, yeah? So I won't vote him, but based on:
Ninja wins out. Unless somebody can come forward and counter the claim, we know Twilight has to exist as an actual role and not a safe-claim. That leaves us with either Camo or Celv, neither are confirmed, but Celv did lead us to the last scum lynch so...
Or, other option, Jabber is lying entirely. He was affected negatively by SM's ability but grabbed three names to present as iffy to the town because none of them are confirmed or even very likely town.
But given my last stance on his claimed ability, I'm inclined to still believe it. It's like Sudoku down in here.
@Camoclone, anything to report from the Ability you won from the parasprite Friendship Activity?
Okay, I forgot that scattered was the doctor. It is quite possible that scattered protected Jabber from the nightkill using his Active Ability. This would explain why scattered chose Jabber for the dream, over other players - Jabber was confo-town. ...However, the situation is a bit more complicated than that - I was also killproof Night 1, thanks to Roz's "Twilight can't die" Farewell Ability. I checked with PMJ - I wouldn't get told if I was the kill attempt that night, and I assume the same rules would apply for scattered. This means that we can't automatically clear Jabber, because we can't know for certain that he was the target.
Okay, I forgot that scattered was the doctor. It is quite possible that scattered protected Jabber from the nightkill using his Active Ability. This would explain why scattered chose Jabber for the dream, over other players - Jabber was confo-town. ...However, the situation is a bit more complicated than that - I was also killproof Night 1, thanks to Roz's "Twilight can't die" Farewell Ability. I checked with PMJ - I wouldn't get told if I was the kill attempt that night, and I assume the same rules would apply for scattered. This means that we can't automatically clear Jabber, because we can't know for certain that he was the target.
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