You are very welcome.
Gekki is also super duper aggressive (which can be annoying at times) and he is all like "blah blah dont vote me" until he gets voted out on the first day and is flipped town.
Finished Mafia XLIX: Fight for the Falls!
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Gekki is also super duper aggressive (which can be annoying at times) and he is all like "blah blah dont vote me" until he gets voted out on the first day and is flipped town.
PMJ
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1) You should have gone back and looked yourself the moment he asked instead of playing runaround for two days, you're now no closer to rebutting his points and only wasted the town's time
2) I accused you (or rather, was for your lynch) before you posted the case on me, not after.
3) You should never threaten to give up posting no matter who is pressuring you and no matter how hokey you think their wagon on you is; ps yes he did say you weren't contributing, he specifically said that your posts did nothing to advance the town win condition.
4) You don't need to spaz out to panic, it's been becoming more and more clear from your reluctance to do anything other than point fingers at Camo for not spoon-feeding you his case.
Camo posted a paragraph! It is imperative that all town read this paragraph of Camo's, and my response to it.
*For example, a Camo has appealed to emotion throughout the game, as well as over-simplified cases (this one is a very obvious instance). Is this indicative? No.
- threatening to not post --- completely taken out of context. As I've already made clear, if Camo had continued to force the idea that I'm not contributing, then posting would be mostly pointless. This is a true statement.
- AtE - Apparently I've been AtEing. How is this AtE scummy? (More specifically, where am I manipulating people using AtE?) Emotions are a natural method through which humans communicate, it is NAI.
- OMGUS - "OMGUS" is only a relevant tell when I push someone for the primary reason: because they pushed me first. Camo has failed to show this as my primary reason for pushing, say, PMJ. It is a very dodgy tell; if an inno is being pushed by scum and realises this, scum write their case off as "OMGUS", and the scum receives no further attention.
- ad hominem - I could not respond to any actual reasons, because they had been buried under earlier pages. He refused to repeat them while continued to spam "bbninjas is confirmed scum, lynch him!", hence I had to point out that his style is detrimental and misleading.
- over simplification - I laughed at this, because Camo has been over simplifying everything I say as some sort of scumtell. I'm not sure what I've oversimplified, so okay.
- lack of contribution (to furthering the town wincon) early game - This is very much false - go read those early posts yourself! I was developing reads (identifying probable innos) and giving my thoughts on others (or on the cases, defending them if I thought they were rubbish). Camo has simplified playing mafia to "aggressive scumhunting and pressuring" (a false simplification!), nor was I even in a position (activity-wise) to be putting on effective pressure.
Each of the points, and my responses to them. Town should be wary of me being boxed into "tells". Many tells are not inherently scummy, and can be used falsely, as a fallacy and misleadingly. For example, AtE, OMGUS, WIFOM, etc are all normal subconscious actions made by all people*; a case must specifically show how this is a scum trying to manipulate through these actions. Else, tells are dangerously easy for scum to hide behind.
*For example, a Camo has appealed to emotion throughout the game, as well as over-simplified cases (this one is a very obvious instance). Is this indicative? No.
- threatening to not post --- completely taken out of context. As I've already made clear, if Camo had continued to force the idea that I'm not contributing, then posting would be mostly pointless. This is a true statement.
- AtE - Apparently I've been AtEing. How is this AtE scummy? (More specifically, where am I manipulating people using AtE?) Emotions are a natural method through which humans communicate, it is NAI.
- OMGUS - "OMGUS" is only a relevant tell when I push someone for the primary reason: because they pushed me first. Camo has failed to show this as my primary reason for pushing, say, PMJ. It is a very dodgy tell; if an inno is being pushed by scum and realises this, scum write their case off as "OMGUS", and the scum receives no further attention.
- ad hominem - I could not respond to any actual reasons, because they had been buried under earlier pages. He refused to repeat them while continued to spam "bbninjas is confirmed scum, lynch him!", hence I had to point out that his style is detrimental and misleading.
- over simplification - I laughed at this, because Camo has been over simplifying everything I say as some sort of scumtell. I'm not sure what I've oversimplified, so okay.
- lack of contribution (to furthering the town wincon) early game - This is very much false - go read those early posts yourself! I was developing reads (identifying probable innos) and giving my thoughts on others (or on the cases, defending them if I thought they were rubbish). Camo has simplified playing mafia to "aggressive scumhunting and pressuring" (a false simplification!), nor was I even in a position (activity-wise) to be putting on effective pressure.
Context is important: PMJ was saying that I either need to spend the time to backlog and respond, or I will die. The problem is simple: PMJ is implying that if I had or would backlog, then I wouldn't be lynched, to which I say that is rubbish - I'm being tunneled. I'm pretty sure I did respond to you last game, very directly, and it became a back-and-forth? It also helps that you actually stated what the case was.
No, it would have definitely taken longer. I suppose there is also an ulterior motive here: I think Camo's play is detrimental - and so I'm not just going to let him being difficult pass. I'm sorry if you think my posting has been walls of text, but I also haven't been posting as much as normal either, so I've been compensating. This and my last post are really the first time I've post what I would consider a wall. (For anyone who says I am being inconsistent, my supposed "walls of text" are nothing compared to the walls Camo posts.)
If I see someone making an argument against me, I will have responded to it.
Thankyou! My question: how is having a passive attitude scummy? (i.e. Conversely, I've been rather aggressive, especially two games ago, and I'd say last game too but less so.) Assumption here: you say I'm refusing to defend myself. In fact, I have been defending myself when people actually give reasons, and I can't defend myself when there's nothing to defend (i.e. in the case of Camo). I can think of a few people that have been giving reasons and who I've responded to (Jabber, PMJ, you). I'm not sure what the italics is getting at; Camo will look very bad on my flip, yes? Is that a problem; he's the one who will be making himself look bad.
PMJ has overlooked the context of what I was responding to, and just overlooked what I said entirely. An example of this: his response is "I was for your lynch first", where in fact I was saying that "PMJ became actively involved in my lynch only after I made a case on him".
"1) You should have gone back and looked yourself the moment he asked instead of playing runaround for two days, you're now no closer to rebutting his points and only wasted the town's time"
This would be a good point, except I would still be looking through 7+ pages at that stage, and definitely did not have the availability then that I actually have now. Considering that, it would much more logical, simpler and pro-town to just ask Camo to repeat the case (it puts everyone on the same page). I would not have known that he would refuse such a simple request, as to cause all that has happened in regards to that since.
"1) You should have gone back and looked yourself the moment he asked instead of playing runaround for two days, you're now no closer to rebutting his points and only wasted the town's time"
This would be a good point, except I would still be looking through 7+ pages at that stage, and definitely did not have the availability then that I actually have now. Considering that, it would much more logical, simpler and pro-town to just ask Camo to repeat the case (it puts everyone on the same page). I would not have known that he would refuse such a simple request, as to cause all that has happened in regards to that since.
Anyway, I'm getting pretty conscious that if someone responds to my response to Camo, we will be verging on a meaningless and derailing back-and-forth, and to prevent that, I will only be responding to people who say something new.
On a different note, @simsands has been a person that I've been watching in particular. As of his recent post directed primarily towards me, I'm finding it difficult to draw anything indicative out of it. It's completely likely that simsands is scum pushing for mislynch and intentionally overlooking contexts, but an innocent could just as easily do the same. The thing that makes me think that simsands is in fact overlooking something lies in his comparison between me this game and me last game, which I don't think a mafian would intentionally misinterpret. Of course, I could be incorrectly comparing myself and that would make this indication moot, so I'm keen to see why simsands considers the plays very similar.
I do not like @Lord o da rings' recent post at all.
QUOTE="Lord o da rings, post: 2926405, member: 110840"]I have a question for you. If BB is lynched and he flips Town, would that change your reads on Mariano and Jabber at all?
OMG I needed that laugh after the s*** day I've had. They don't play very similarly in my opinion. Camo has a reputation on this site for being hyper-aggressive and assertive in mafia. It's not scummy for him, it's just how he plays any alignment.[/QUOTE]
The question that Lorde asks is virtually the same that Mariano is asking, yet there isn't any acknowledgement whatsoever that Mariano just asked this, to which @Camoclone said "why do you ask that?" and "Who knows" (which is unbelievably non-committal). There is also no comment on Gekki saying that the question is WIFOM either, nor on the discussion following that. All very strange.
The other contribution is to respond to The Last Shaymin, saying that Gekki and Camo do not play similarly at all. Lorde, do you have any comments on the recent developments? Who do you think are scummy/should be lynched, and why?
On a different note, @simsands has been a person that I've been watching in particular. As of his recent post directed primarily towards me, I'm finding it difficult to draw anything indicative out of it. It's completely likely that simsands is scum pushing for mislynch and intentionally overlooking contexts, but an innocent could just as easily do the same. The thing that makes me think that simsands is in fact overlooking something lies in his comparison between me this game and me last game, which I don't think a mafian would intentionally misinterpret. Of course, I could be incorrectly comparing myself and that would make this indication moot, so I'm keen to see why simsands considers the plays very similar.
I do not like @Lord o da rings' recent post at all.
QUOTE="Lord o da rings, post: 2926405, member: 110840"]I have a question for you. If BB is lynched and he flips Town, would that change your reads on Mariano and Jabber at all?
OMG I needed that laugh after the s*** day I've had. They don't play very similarly in my opinion. Camo has a reputation on this site for being hyper-aggressive and assertive in mafia. It's not scummy for him, it's just how he plays any alignment.[/QUOTE]
The question that Lorde asks is virtually the same that Mariano is asking, yet there isn't any acknowledgement whatsoever that Mariano just asked this, to which @Camoclone said "why do you ask that?" and "Who knows" (which is unbelievably non-committal). There is also no comment on Gekki saying that the question is WIFOM either, nor on the discussion following that. All very strange.
The other contribution is to respond to The Last Shaymin, saying that Gekki and Camo do not play similarly at all. Lorde, do you have any comments on the recent developments? Who do you think are scummy/should be lynched, and why?
fixing:
I do not like @Lord o da rings' recent post at all.
The question that Lorde asks is virtually the same that Mariano is asking, yet there isn't any acknowledgement whatsoever that Mariano just asked this, to which @Camoclone said "why do you ask that?" and "Who knows" (which is unbelievably non-committal). There is also no comment on Gekki saying that the question is WIFOM either, nor on the discussion following that. All very strange.
The other contribution is to respond to The Last Shaymin, saying that Gekki and Camo do not play similarly at all. Lorde, do you have any comments on the recent developments? Who do you think are scummy/should be lynched, and why?
I do not like @Lord o da rings' recent post at all.
The question that Lorde asks is virtually the same that Mariano is asking, yet there isn't any acknowledgement whatsoever that Mariano just asked this, to which @Camoclone said "why do you ask that?" and "Who knows" (which is unbelievably non-committal). There is also no comment on Gekki saying that the question is WIFOM either, nor on the discussion following that. All very strange.
The other contribution is to respond to The Last Shaymin, saying that Gekki and Camo do not play similarly at all. Lorde, do you have any comments on the recent developments? Who do you think are scummy/should be lynched, and why?
@Robin Aisaga
I just checked; you never followed up and made a conclusion in regards to your earlier pressure on Lorde. What are your thoughts on her?
I just checked; you never followed up and made a conclusion in regards to your earlier pressure on Lorde. What are your thoughts on her?
I dunno. I don't think ahead. There's no reason to.
Both Jabber and Mariano happen to be people doing more defending of me, and not sitting around apathetically. Are these the ties? If so, why are these indicative of a scum alignment if I flip scum? They would be being very obvious about it. What would these ties mean if I am town? You are going to have to answer this question eventually; if you can entertain the possibility if I am scum, then you should be able to entertain the possibility if I am town.
Yet you have been constantly thinking ahead about me. I am apparently confo-scum, and you've already identified my apparent scumbuddies. That's definitely thinking ahead.
What's interesting here is ninjas absolute fascination with making me look bad. He isn't interested in scumhunting. He doesn't even appear to be fighting his lynch too hard. He just wants to make me second guess his lynch by trying to imply terrible things will happen to me if he's lynched. That's not a town mindset.
I make a very valid point about why you should be able to answer that question (with something beyond "I don't know"), and you ignore that to respond with this. Don't you call that AtE and ad hominem, and aren't those major scumtells in your books? You're also trying to direct attention away from yourself, and back on me. Aren't we allowed to scumhunt other people?
And again, you say there is no benefit in thinking ahead, yet there is exactly what you've been doing in regards to Mariano and Jabber! Thinking ahead is important, nothing prevents you from reevaluating your earlier thoughts, and you, of all people especially, need to have this accountability for when you are scum.
If that is the case, then I can assume that you (as scum) would attempt to look like town and would thus publicly think of a person as both town and scum regardless of your alignment. Thus, I have not assumed anything about your alignment.
Keep backpedaling. Might as well throw a claim in. You're on very very very thin ice.
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