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MaxieChamp (Medicham / Landorus / Hawlucha / Machamp)

R

ryuninja

Aspiring Trainer
Member
Pokemon: 15

  • 4-4 Medicham PRC (Dhalsim from SF)
    2x Hawlucha FUF (T-Hawk from SF)
    2x Landorus FUF (Astaroth from SC3)
    2x Machamp FUF (Goro from MK)
    1x Jirachi EX PLB (um... Benimaru from KoF?)
T/S/S: 36

  • 2x Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick
    3x Korrina
    3x N
    2x Colress
    2x Professor Juniper
    1x Lysandre
    4x VS Seeker
    2x Bicycle
    1x Computer Search
    3x Battle Compressor
    3x Ultra Ball
    4x Muscle Band
    3x Fighting Stadium
    1x Professor's Letter
    1x Switch
    1x Sacred Ash
Energy: 9

  • 4x Strong Energy
    5x Fighting Energy
Strategy:

Buff Medicham's attack to enable OHKOs, win via favorable prize trade.

  • 2* Yoga Kick + 3* 20 damage buffs = 180 damage
I've been exclusively testing Medicham variants for the past 3 weeks, and this build has achieved the most success.

The problem with other means of reaching Medicham's OHKO potential is that they rely on finding multiple combo pieces for each KO, which have to be duplicated for each new Medicham. Many were also much more proficient at facilitating OHKOs on 170HP EXs, and struggled against 180HP EXs and 110+HP non-EXs due to reliance on Silver Bangle and Fighting Stadium.

Examples of previous inclusions that shared these problems:

  • 2* Yoga Kick + Fighting Stadium/Strong Energy + Silver Bangle + Golbat's Sneaky Bite = 180
    2* Yoga Kick + Fighting Stadium/Strong Energy + Silver Bangle + Hypnotoxic Laser = 170
    2* Yoga Kick + Fighting Stadium/Strong Energy + Silver Bangle + Golbat's Swoop Across = 170
    2* Yoga Kick + 2x Fighting Stadium/Strong Energy/Muscle Band + Landorus EX's Hammerhead = 170
With this build, I have 2 constants among my different damage buffs: Fighting Stadium and Machamp's Fighting Fury. Having both in play allows me to reach 180 damage vs EXs and 140 damage vs non-EXs with only a single inconstant combo piece: either Muscle Band or Strong Energy.

This is an enormous consistency boost against decks that pressure me to set up Medichams quickly, and in end-game scenarios where I get N'd. The latter really hurts when relying on multiple inconstant combo pieces for a KO, since at later stages of the game your deck tends to run out of those pieces, whereas it's much easier to conserve them in this build when you only need 1 Muscle Band or Strong Energy in addition to my 2 constants.

This list has gone through alot of refinement, but there is still room for improvement I'm sure. Lmk what you think, cheers ;)
 
The Pokemon look fine, here is what I would change though.
Although you have a Machamp in there, doesn't it need to evolve?
Also you mention Landerous EX, but I don't see it in your deck list, and also you mention Golbats, and Lasers, and yeah I don't see those.
I would clarify your strategy with what is actually in the deck.

- 1 Maxies Hidden Ball Trick, it's a great card, but you shouldn't have a super empty hand like that anyway, and if you do, Juniper or N can give you more
- 1/2 VS Seekers, the standard is 2, but 4 can be a bit excessive, 3 is more than enough
- 1 Ultra Ball, you need some room for the other things you should have
- 3 Battle Compressor, I'm really not sure why you have this in there, to thin the deck?
- 1 Sacred Ash, Trump Card is just kinda better

+ 1/2 Lysandre, I personally think all decks need at least 1, if you're going to pump out that much damage, you need to make sure you are taking things out.
+ 1 Juniper, I just think you need more Draw Support
+ 1 Lysandre's Trump Card, I just think it's better than Sacred Ash
+ 2/3 Silver Bangles, this almost seems essential in making this work

I hope this helps, again, the part where you break down your strategy is sound, but most of what you talk about is not in your actual deck. Please make it more clear.
 
PoohBear-Ex said:
The Pokemon look fine, here is what I would change though.
Although you have a Machamp in there, doesn't it need to evolve?
Also you mention Landerous EX, but I don't see it in your deck list, and also you mention Golbats, and Lasers, and yeah I don't see those.
I would clarify your strategy with what is actually in the deck.

- 1 Maxies Hidden Ball Trick, it's a great card, but you shouldn't have a super empty hand like that anyway, and if you do, Juniper or N can give you more
- 1/2 VS Seekers, the standard is 2, but 4 can be a bit excessive, 3 is more than enough
- 1 Ultra Ball, you need some room for the other things you should have
- 3 Battle Compressor, I'm really not sure why you have this in there, to thin the deck?
- 1 Sacred Ash, Trump Card is just kinda better

+ 1/2 Lysandre, I personally think all decks need at least 1, if you're going to pump out that much damage, you need to make sure you are taking things out.
+ 1 Juniper, I just think you need more Draw Support
+ 1 Lysandre's Trump Card, I just think it's better than Sacred Ash
+ 2/3 Silver Bangles, this almost seems essential in making this work

I hope this helps, again, the part where you break down your strategy is sound, but most of what you talk about is not in your actual deck. Please make it more clear.
Click to expand...

All the damage calcs I added after the segment talking about the flaws of other Medicham variants... contain cards belonging to those variants. I was just giving examples of the other methods I've tested for buffing Medicham, all of which have that problem of relying on multiple inconstants that my MaxieChamp engine remedies.

but yeah... you clearly have absolutely no idea how this deck works. start by reading this card:

Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick

"You can play this card only when it is the last card in your hand.
Put a Fighting Pokémon from your discard pile onto your Bench. Then, draw 5 cards."

[[Hint: This includes Stage 1/2 Pokemon]]

hopefully that clears some things up.
 
I love this idea, Machamp with Maxie is so good that I even used 1 of each in Lazy Groudon.
I'm not sure how much consistency testing you've done, but if you need more drawpower I would put in Scorching Earth. It accelerates Lando as well in the earlygame (you have compressor, but this one is more dependable, consider replacing).
Right off the bat the biggest problem seems to be Jirachi. If you want to win favorable prize trades, you definitely don't want Jirachi on the field. It's very easy to punish. My suggestion would be simply to replace it with a Random Receiver for that crisis supporter. It can be picked up with Korrina as well if your hand is really dead.
Dowsing Machine is in my opinion the go-to ACESPEC for anything that doesn't play DCE, but it depends on your playstyle. One thing I will say though is that it can pick up Fighting Stadium. This could help whenever you're against anything that discards them (Groudon, etc.).
 
hmm, what if you put in 4 night teleporters and 4 maxie's hiden ball trick, that way the night teleporter would reshuffle your hand into your deck and get maxie's ball trick at the same time allowing you to use it and in turn this would make it way more reliable to use. And yes I do realize night teleporter is not allowed in tournaments but still, if there is a more recent variation on the card that I did not have time to research on then I do think you should look into it.
 
Ugh... i figured ppl would know how the Maxie engine works by now, but I guess the set is still too new.

  • 2x Maxie
    2x Machamp
    3x Battle Compressor
    3x Ultra Ball
    1x Computer Search
    4x VS Seeker
    1x Jirachi
    3x Korrina
All play a huge part in consistently allowing me to resolve a Maxie into Machamp by my 2nd turn.

Maxie/Machamp - 2 of each are necessary to avoid situations where one or the other is prized

Battle Compressor - Dumps Machamp, Fighting Energy, and allows me to toolbox Maxie/Lysander/other Supporters with my 4x VS Seeker.

Jirachi - The only excuses not to play Jirachi this format are

  • 1. Not playing Ultra Ball
    2. Bench space is EXTREMELY tight
    3. You play a very low number of Basic Pokemon
    4. You're a bad player
That's all there is to it. In this deck not only does Jirachi save me from supporter-dry hands, it's a major combo piece in achieving t2 Maxie.

Ultra Ball - Thins hand of cards that aren't immediately usable to help meet Maxie's activation condition. Searches Jirachi who in turn searches Maxie. Opening 2 Ultra Ball is an immediate first turn MaxieChamp. Ultra Ball -> ditch 2 cards, search Machamp. 2nd Ultra Ball ditch Machamp and 1 other card, search Jirachi. Jirachi search Maxie. I want to fit a 4th Ultra Ball but space is so tight...

Computer Search - Same as Ultra Ball but can fetch Compressor or even an Ultra Ball to help achieve my combo. When I open Computer Search, 99% of the time I have 1st turn MaxieChamp.

VS Seeker - See Battle Compressor ^^^

Korrina - In addition to being a fantastic generic supporter throughout all stages of the game, opening it pretty much guarantees I'll resolve MaxieChamp on my next turn. Searches Machamp + Computer Search/Ultra Ball, Compressor, VS Seeker, etc. Ofc any situation where I'm forced to Korrina on my 1st turn means my setup will be susceptible to N, but in those situations I typically dump as much of my hand as possible to make N seem like an unfavorable option to my opponent.

I resolve MaxieChamp by my 2nd turn in at least 75% of my games thus far, the 25% being mostly due to N.

Test it for yourself, but yeah... None of the cards listed above are replacable.

Btw running a full Machamp line Candy and all is just awful. I'd muuuch rather stick to Medicham builds with Laser, Bangle, Landorus EX, Golbat, etc.
 
Jirachi will get you killed. If that's worth it for consistency, then go ahead. I'd think not. And obviously if you're gonna use Battle Compressor there's no reason to play Computer Search over Dowsing Machine. You discard Machamp, an energy and Maxie, Dowse for Maxie. Or you could discard any other trainer you need, it really doesn't make sense to pick something from the deck when you can reuse it instead.
 
FaustVIII said:
Jirachi will get you killed. If that's worth it for consistency, then go ahead. I'd think not. And obviously if you're gonna use Battle Compressor there's no reason to play Computer Search over Dowsing Machine. You discard Machamp, an energy and Maxie, Dowse for Maxie. Or you could discard any other trainer you need, it really doesn't make sense to pick something from the deck when you can reuse it instead.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i've had Jirachi get Lysandre'd for game a few times. I've also had it save my ass from a brick hand or get Machamp out 1-2 turns earlier at least 5x more. All the top players agree Jirachi is a must atm. I've never once regretted playing it.

And I still don't see ur point on Dowsing vs CPU. The entirity of my first 2-3 turns of each game are devoted to setting up MaxieChamp. CPU helps me achieve this in virtually every situation I draw/search it, whereas Dowsing only works in conjunction with Compressor which I'm not guaranteed to hit. Once Machamp hits the field this deck is so incredibly explosive I don't need late game recursion. I just win. Very rarely do I find myself wishing I had a way to recycle a Muscle Band or Stadium, but if it were to happen more frequently I'd just replace Sacred Ash with Trump Card.
 
ryuninja said:
FaustVIII said:
Jirachi will get you killed. If that's worth it for consistency, then go ahead. I'd think not. And obviously if you're gonna use Battle Compressor there's no reason to play Computer Search over Dowsing Machine. You discard Machamp, an energy and Maxie, Dowse for Maxie. Or you could discard any other trainer you need, it really doesn't make sense to pick something from the deck when you can reuse it instead.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i've had Jirachi get Lysandre'd for game a few times. I've also had it save my ass from a brick hand or get Machamp out 1-2 turns earlier at least 5x more. All the top players agree Jirachi is a must atm. I've never once regretted playing it.
Click to expand...

First of all, that's wrong. Top players will tell you that Jirachi is a huge risk. Not to mention that the most solid decks in the format would never include it in their list. Seismitoad variations? No Jirachi. Fairy Box? No Jirachi. Any variation that plays Yveltal or Manectric as key components? No Jirachi. VirGen? No Jirachi.
The point is that you shouldn't be getting brick hands to begin with. If you're relying on Medicham, a low-health, to be your main attacker, you don't have time to use your Poke search to fetch Jirachi. Korrina can't even pick it up, so unless you draw it you HAVE to use Ultra Ball. And if you do draw it, why not just have a Receiver? It's not 2 free prizes for your opponent.

Speaking of Seismitoad though, I wonder if you'd take an autoloss to it. You will NOT be able to set up a Maxie once you're locked, and without Silver Bangle either I'd say it's over. Thoughts on this?
 
FaustVIII said:
ryuninja said:
Yeah, i've had Jirachi get Lysandre'd for game a few times. I've also had it save my ass from a brick hand or get Machamp out 1-2 turns earlier at least 5x more. All the top players agree Jirachi is a must atm. I've never once regretted playing it.
Click to expand...

First of all, that's wrong. Top players will tell you that Jirachi is a huge risk. Not to mention that the most solid decks in the format would never include it in their list. Seismitoad variations? No Jirachi. Fairy Box? No Jirachi. Any variation that plays Yveltal or Manectric as key components? No Jirachi. VirGen? No Jirachi.
The point is that you shouldn't be getting brick hands to begin with. If you're relying on Medicham, a low-health, to be your main attacker, you don't have time to use your Poke search to fetch Jirachi. Korrina can't even pick it up, so unless you draw it you HAVE to use Ultra Ball. And if you do draw it, why not just have a Receiver? It's not 2 free prizes for your opponent.

Speaking of Seismitoad though, I wonder if you'd take an autoloss to it. You will NOT be able to set up a Maxie once you're locked, and without Silver Bangle either I'd say it's over. Thoughts on this?
Click to expand...

*a worthwhile risk

I can link you dozens of lists for each of those decks from the top cuts of fall regionals and winter cities that played Jirachi... well maybe not FairyBox, but a good amount of Pure Fairies (the Yveltal/Florges builds that gained popularity during Cities to combat Seismitoad's energy disruption) play it. Really don't know what you're talking about...

Not sure how Bangle would help me in that match-up, but yeah you're correct in that the MaxieChamp engine will be nothing but dead weight in at least half your games vs Toad. However, that's the sole reason I include Hawlucha in my list. Hawlucha trades 2HKOs with Seismitoad while requiring little to no setup, which gives me time to set up my benched Medichams. Once I get a Medicham to OHKO status, it's really hard for the Toad player to keep up, and they'll most likely be forced to break the item lock for at least a turn. The key to this match-up is equipping muscle bands early on, conserving fighting stadiums, and using VS Seeker on discarded Supporters whenever possible. TastyToad or any Toad variant using LaserBank + heavy energy disruption will be a tough match-up. Variants using Yveltal and/or MManectric are favorable match-ups.
 
Finally getting my head wrapped around the "engine", though I still feel kind of clumsy with it. This deck is reasonably strong without machamp, so in most of my games it's been a bit of a bonus to get him on the bench. Thing of beauty when it pops up on turn 1 or 2, though. If you take a mulligan against this deck, look out.

Your summary of the toad matchup is spot on, and my last game against toad/slurpuff played out just as you described: Toad got through a landorus, Hawlucha took care of the first toad, second toad had to resort to grenade hammer, and by then medicham was all set up and ready to mow down everything.

The only changes I've made are to remove a battle compressor (two seems like plenty - I never play more than one) and replace it as well as one bicycle with +2 acro bike. I kind of prefer the method of hand-size management provided by acro bike vs. bicycle, but I think I need more games.

I'm tempted to plop in a primal groudon for reasons of WHY NOT, plus he's a pretty safe bench sitter. I just find myself with a full bench more often than not so it might not be worth the space.

I've also been branching out with some Archie's Ace decks and they're great fun, too. MaxieChamp might get the edge, though, because of Medicham and Korrina.
 
Glad to hear you're enjoying the deck!

While you never need more than 1 Compressor throughout a game, you still want to open it if possible as it makes setting up MaxieChamp that much easier (i'd play 4 if I had the space) which is the exact reason I've recently dropped a Bicycle for a 4th Ultra Ball. Opening a discard outlet like Ultra is crucial to making Maxie live, and opening 2x Ultra is an auto turn 1 MaxieChamp. Bicycle is only really there for when I need to use Korrina as a draw card; so a 1of will suffice (unless it's prized, but hey, MaxieChamp consistency comes first).

Acro Bike is just a waste of a card slot. It's like playing Upstart Goblin in Yu-Gi-Oh... provides you no card advantage, doesn't guarantee you the card you want, and has a negative side effect (in this case potentially forcing you to discard a valuable resource). there are very few cards in this deck you actually want to discard, and after you use Battle Compressor that number gets cut in half. space is just way too tight to even consider Acro Bike atm.

Primal Groudon does nothing for this deck. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were joking.

And yeah Archie has so many good targets, and having access to Dive Ball almost makes up for having to use Skyla instead of Korrina. I'm having lots of fun with the ArchieSwampert engine in Seismitoad/Slurpuff, and ArchieGreninja helps give alot of water threats OHKO capability, namely Primal Clash Kingdra and Primal Kyogre. ArchieBlastoise is just bonkers in anything water as well.
 
I have to confess I was *sure* there was no way Maxie could be consistent in any way. Now that I've tried it out and had some success I'm a bit enamored of the idea and Primal Groudon crossed my mind as a "look what I can do!" gimmick rather than anything useful. You're right, it would not help the win rate of the deck at all. But I used Archie to get blastoise and Mega-blastoise on the bench yesterday and even succeeding in that is fun in its own way.

Acro bike I saw as a way to whittle down hand size and get to a maxiechamp. Usually I get a card I can play immediately, I trim my hand down by one if that helps get down to a VS seeker or whatever, and with all the VS seeker and Korrina in this deck the discard never stings too bad. The worst is when I'm hoping to get something I can play immediately and I end up choosing between two supporters, either of which would squash my plan for getting down to one card. 4x Ultra ball definitely seems like a good idea, so I may as well give bicycle another chance for a while.

So far I've been keeping Dive Ball count low in my Archie decks in lieu of a higher ultra ball count, but considering they generally have superior energy retrieval as well, I'll need to experiment.
 
How is your match against seismitoad/slurpuff and seismitoad/manectric? I have this deck and I have problems against manectric and toad. I use Silent lab cause hawlucha can OHKO in manectric ex. Focus sash in medicham is other tech which I think to use.
 
I run a similar deck (NO Jircahi EX - lol) and found that Lysandre's Trump Card to be very useful. Consider playing against PC Gardevoir - you will deplete your resources much faster than your opponent (since they can heal the Gardys) and the LTC can help you compete more favorably, IMO.
 
FaustVIII said:
Right off the bat the biggest problem seems to be Jirachi. If you want to win favorable prize trades, you definitely don't want Jirachi on the field. It's very easy to punish. My suggestion would be simply to replace it with a Random Receiver for that crisis supporter. It can be picked up with Korrina as well if your hand is really dead.
----------------------------------------------
First of all, that's wrong. Top players will tell you that Jirachi is a huge risk. Not to mention that the most solid decks in the format would never include it in their list. Seismitoad variations? No Jirachi. Fairy Box? No Jirachi. Any variation that plays Yveltal or Manectric as key components? No Jirachi. VirGen? No Jirachi.
The point is that you shouldn't be getting brick hands to begin with. If you're relying on Medicham, a low-health, to be your main attacker, you don't have time to use your Poke search to fetch Jirachi. Korrina can't even pick it up, so unless you draw it you HAVE to use Ultra Ball. And if you do draw it, why not just have a Receiver? It's not 2 free prizes for your opponent.
Click to expand...

Please don't comment on whether or not successful decks play Jirachi.
It may be seen like personal preference overall, but many successful players do include and see merit in playing Jirachi in each of the archetypes you listed. What "top players" say Jirachi is a risk not worth the reward in the correct deck?

Random Receiver was good when the format had 2 viable supporters which both included draw power but with so many viable supporters, Jirachi and VS Seeker in tandem allow you to maximize the potential of your tech supporters while also giving consistency a huge boost. (Random Receiver into Lysandre or Colress for 0 when you're staring down all of your deck's energy/evolutions is not fun).

Being able to grab flare grunt in seismitoad variants, shadow triad or skyla in vir/gen, draw support or N, it's basically a staple at this point if you play 3/4 ultra ball.
One Jirachi sets up all of your VS Seekers for the rest of the game, which is reason enough in my opinion. And when you bench it late, it can be a huge power play to seal the game.

The ONLY time it is not worth the risk of benching is vs things that have heavy bench damage potential (bats, dusknoir, landorus) or heavy catcher effects (genesect) and even then, it is normally worth playing down if it gets you into/keeps you in the game in the first place. The risk of starting lone Jirachi is worth the reward of supporter search on each Ultra Ball unless your area is full of Lando/Bats and Genesect.
Think of it this way, when your opponent has a loaded EX ready to blow you up, are you really going to catcher for the Jirachi for a quick 2 prizes unless they're your last?

Consistent decks would never get brick hands in a perfect world, but variance happens. And when consistent decks need a wish granted, Jirachi makes it happen. (Also when you absolutely need something right now and don't have computer search available)

I feel that a deck focusing on hitting a specific supporter under a specific condition needs all of the consistency support it can get, and Jirachi definitely does the job best in this instance.

ryuninja said:
Pokemon: 15

  • 4-4 Medicham PRC (Dhalsim from SF)
    2x Hawlucha FUF (T-Hawk from SF)
    2x Landorus FUF (Astaroth from SC3)
    2x Machamp FUF (Goro from MK)
    1x Jirachi EX PLB (um... Benimaru from KoF?)
T/S/S: 36

  • 2x Maxie's Hidden Ball Trick
    3x Korrina
    3x N
    2x Colress
    2x Professor Juniper
    1x Lysandre
    4x VS Seeker
    2x Bicycle
    1x Computer Search
    3x Battle Compressor
    3x Ultra Ball
    4x Muscle Band
    3x Fighting Stadium
    1x Professor's Letter
    1x Switch
    1x Sacred Ash
Energy: 9

  • 4x Strong Energy
    5x Fighting Energy
Click to expand...

The only things I would consider changing are -1 Sacred ash, -1 Colress, and -1 VS Seeker.

Things to add would be +1 Hawlucha/Landorus, +1/2 Juniper, +1/2 Maxie, +1 Switch, +1 Lysandre

I don't personally like Colress, but a 1-of is very nice to have access to. I don't like sacred ash either, maybe you could try a trump card instead if you want a recycling effect? I'm not sure how necessary another switch is considering most of your mons have 1/free retreat, but 2 is my generic number for switch.
I don't like having the thinner supporter count with 4 VS Seeker personally, as I feel like I ditch them more often than not with Juniper. (and it's a nasty weakness for vs toad) Maybe Korrina helps with that problem, I have not played many fighting decks.
Another problem I generally have with the heavy VS Seeker engine is not hitting battle compressors or a supporter early and floundering, but if you don't mind benching Jirachi early it's a heavy payout.

Something I thought was cool with Korrina was repeat ball, which would flex your Korrina into a Fan Club early or help swarm Medicham late without any nasty discards/hand limitation. Not sure it would apply given you want to play Jirachi since it's so good for Maxie's, but it's a thought for a 1-of.

Looks solid, thanks for sharing and good luck!
 
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