News New 'Battle Arena Deck: Black Kyurem vs. White Kyurem' in June!
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
- Start date
Maybe that symbol is an image of black kyurem and white kyurem facing away from each other?
^ Maybe not the final symbol(symbol too large to fit on the actual card, hence blurriness)?
^ If true, then the set number might be a number from a "Battle Arena" set, which is not a main set, but a side set to its own nonetheless(but unlike main sets, assuming this BA deck has a new set symbol associated w/ it, then it could be treated as a side set ala Double Crisis, meaning there will be no secret rares here, and all cards w/ such new symbol on it will be treated as reprinted, as the set symbol will look unique, meaning their rotation clocks would be reset back to two P!P seasons plus the remainder of the current P!P season)...
^ Then again, until clearer images are shown, who knows what the truth is on these cards? It could be a reprint, and yet, there's still a chance that the set number will be from the respective card's previous print instead(just like previous BA decks), which in Sycamore RA's case, its previous print is from BKP(its previous SA print is from STS), in which case, the rotation clock won't be affected: Sycamore will still rotate out of Standard w/ the BREAK block when the 2018-19 rotation phase takes effect on September 2018. Right now, whether or not the symbol and/or set number indicates a true reprint is inconclusive. The answer to your questions will have to wait until more clarity is given...
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Love that deck, spent like, 700 dollars on it. Those dang Tropical Beaches!
I observe the set symbol, too on Sycamore. It doesn't have a "Star", which some Black Star Promos had, if I look closely. And the card number has some "/1??", if I look closely again. If it is an English Best of XY, I am happy 
the foils are 1 of each print of the kyurem, eight energy, and the trainer
Many people have come up with that (plus decidueye for damage) not looking forward to versing it...
It has a lot of problems vs things that don't necessarily rely on Items to get going, like Volcanion and A-Ninetales. The deck is good, but it requires a set up, which will always be what holds it back from being whoamygodbroken tier. Not to say that it won't be a threat, but it's not the end all of Pokemon, which is why people probably aren't talking about it to the extent that you might be anticipating.
-Asmer
looking good might put it in my wishlist
That particular combination might not be, but I think Sableye + Tsareena + Plume might be. I don't think this scenario is unrealistic at all: T1 red card, hit plume, hit 2 Tsareena (either full Tsareena lines or via devolution spray) leaving your opponent with a top deck shot at a draw supporter T1. I think the primary issue I see with this deck is "what now?" In order to hit that combination, you really need a decent draw supporter line up front and then the ability to mill later. I just don't think there are enough mill supporters + item mill like Trick Shovel in standard to make the deck actually work so to speak. Great. You got me completely locked down. Now what? I know some people have suggested Decidueye, but I don't think it is practical in this deck. I know people have talked about using it in Deciplume, but I honestly think the current Deciplume lists are stronger.
All that is a long way of saying that while I think Sableye is probably the 3rd strongest card in the set as far as *potential* impact on the game, I don't think there is a deck in standard that can effectively use the card effectively. To be perfectly frank, I am not even sure there is a deck in expanded that can use the card effectively. I am sure some genius deck designer will come up with something. They always do
I just don't know what it will be.
I feel like pushing another Stage 2 Line in a deck that already relies on a combo isn't the smartest idea. If anything, I'd rather see something like Trevenant from the new set. At least it has really good Synergy with Vileplume, only requires a DCE to attack and has a great attack to boot. Plus, because of the DCE requirement, you can effectively tech it in, which makes it all the better. That said... perhaps Sableye isn't needed in that case, so I suppose that somewhat ruins the point...
Tapu Lele GXAll that is a long way of saying that while I think Sableye is probably the 3rd strongest card in the set as far as *potential* impact on the game, I don't think there is a deck in standard that can effectively use the card effectively. To be perfectly frank, I am not even sure there is a deck in expanded that can use the card effectively. I am sure some genius deck designer will come up with something. They always do
Field Blower
Choice Band
Garbodor
Aqua Patch
These five are easily the strongest things from the pack for numerous reasons. Tapu Lele GX is incredibly obvious in its power level. Field Blower and Choice Band are incredibly close when it comes down to it, but I feel like being able to remove Tools and Stadiums is slightly more impactful than 30 extra damage. That said, Choice Band is no joke. Garbodor has already proven to be one of the best Pokemon, if not the best Pokemon not named Tapu Lele GX in Japan from this set, being able to his astronomically high numbers with Trashalanche, which only requires one Energy. Also, because it can scale so well, it'll eventually force deck builders to respect its presence, which means we will be building our decks differently (More Pokemon/Supporters, less Items), which is incredibly impactful. Aqua Patch is fairly obvious as well as to what it does, accelerating Pokemon like A-Ninetales GX and Lapras GX, who are both good (apparently A-Ninetales GX is good in Japan as well... who knew...).
There's also cards like Oricorio (quite a few of them are incredibly good), Trevenant (as I mentioned earlier), and I feel things like Honchkrow and Drampa-GX and Turtonator-GX are simply better cards when it comes to this format. Am I saying Sableye is bad or doesn't deserve respect and/or recognition? Of course not. Stopping Supporters is a big deal and I feel the card is tech-worthy. That said, I feel like this set simply provides better cards a whole, which is also a good thing because we've needed an impacting set for a while. This is a nice change and I feel like we're going to see a lot of innovation coming from it.
Regardless, there will also be a lot of time to figure out different aspects of what's good and what's not once the Meta kicks off. I personally feel that Rayquaza is being overlooked right now and I think something will utilize the Energy Acceleration it provides in something. In what, I have no idea yet, but maybe I'll make it work, myself. Regardless, that's my two cents on the whole thing.
-Asmer
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We already have an example of a deck with 2 stage 2 pokemon in it that can get 1-3 of them set up T1 with relative ease in the form of Deciplume. There is literally no difference in how easily Tsareena can get set up from a big fat pokemon line standpoint. There is a massive difference in what the two decks are trying to do though and that's why I don't think the deck will work initially. Whether it ever works is a matter of what Pokemon decides to release in the future.
We are going to have to agree to disagree with respect to the "impact" statement. Right now, you are right. Sableye doesn't belong at the top of this set's list. Long term, I think it will outclass all but Lele and Field Blower. I could be convinced to put it behind Choice Band as well...I have seen enough decks running Silver Bangle and the impact that card can have to know how much that 30 extra damage can hurt. But all it takes is one mistake card by pokemon and Sableye becomes absolutely crippling. There is nothing else in the format that has the potential to stop opponents in their tracks as early as T1 if going second. Don't get me wrong, I am not a person who is some kind of alarmist ZOMG THAT CARD R BROKEN type of person. I don't think it is broken. Unlike the other cards though, I think it has the chance of becoming absolutely meta defining in the next couple of years in the same way Garbodor was meta defining for months when there was trainer based tool removal this season. To be honest, I wouldn't be one bit surprised to see Yveltal decks make great use of it right away as a mid to late game card to help stall out an opponent from using Lysandre or N.
I completely agree with you on this set being great. I am pretty excited about it and think it at least *feels* like we might get some truly interesting decks out of this list similar to how we have gotten a couple of interesting decks out of SUM. The one you mentioned earlier about streaming Koko has been giving me all sorts of happy thoughts as lightning happens to be my favorite type LOL!
Anyway, as always I really enjoyed your insight into the cards and their impact on Japan's meta. I think it is great that you take the time to share and several of the things you mentioned have me planning decks LOL!!!!!
Wow yeah... some recent cards will only be around for like two years! :/
I suppose that's true, though I would simply argue that playing Decidueye GX or even Trevenant is a better idea.
There may come a point where Sableye outclasses Aqua Patch, but that only happens if Water no longer becomes a threatening deck, which doesn't look like the case any time soon. It will never outclass Garbodor because Garbodor literally forces people to change how to build decks by hitting a mechanic that is so naturally important to the game at this point. Stopping Supporter play is one thing. Forcing fear in to people for playing Items, which have no limitations, is a completely different giant all together. Plus, if you really think about it... Sableye isn't tanky. Most things can kill it fairly easily, which I will get to later.
Also keep in mind that Silver Bangle couldn't be used with EX Pokemon at the time. Not only does Choice Band hit more targets, you can attach them to EX/GX Pokemon, making it strictly better.
Vileplume AOR
Hoothoot BKT
Those two immediately came to mind and I'm pretty sure there are others, but that will do. But, to actually solidify my point, the only place those have made an impact are with Decidueye GX, which provides a residual damage that they simply lack. Realistically, they're good together because they cover each other's weaknesses. What truly covers the weakness of Sableye? If I tech it in to Decidueye, I have to split Basic Energy and the deck already plays a small amount. I could play it in something like Trevenant/Vileplume/Sableye, but is it worth it then? Hoothoot worked so well because he also used a DCE, so it wasn't like the Energy had to change. Can Sableye do the same when it comes down to it?
Here's the problems with Sableye from Guardians Rising. First and foremost, it requires you to play a Darkness Energy instead of DCE or something more splashable, meaning the number of decks that can truly play it start to become limited. Second, it has 60 HP, which is a small number and, quite frankly, not good when it comes to starters. 70 HP would make a much different case when it comes to being able to escape OHKOs. As it is now, Tauros GX can nautrally OHKO it, Decidueye can snipe them with 3 Set-Ups, Yveltal EX can OHKO it with 2 normal Energy attachments even if you have nothing on it, Lele can OHKO it if you attach an Energy... the list goes on and on. Finally, it doesn't have a free Retreat, which isn't a requirement, but is kind of a bummer.
Now, I will say that perhaps it could work in something like Yveltal EX or maybe Umbreon GX, where you can easily spread around damage. Then, you can have moments during the mid/late game where you can put up Sableye, lock them out of Supporters, and perhaps stall them for a while, setting up Umbreon GX or Yveltal EX. That might be an option that is worth teching Sableye in to, but keep in mind that this is not a full-on Meta-defining strategy. If anything, that Darkness Energy requirement makes it incredibly hard for Sableye to become truly Meta-changing because it limits what it can and will be able to go in to (and that's not considering all the other problems I have already listed).
I still have a feeling that Acerola will turn Tapu Koko GX in to a deck. Granted, we'll see when the time comes, but being able to essentially loop Koko over and over is nasty. Plus, they're force to OHKO the thing and that's a tall order, especially with things like Fighting Fury Belt still being a card.
Not a problem! I don't mean to sound condescending, so never take it that way. ^^
I always do my best to attempt to look at cards from a practical perspective. That's why I don't think Sableye is a bad card. After all, if you are able to set up a Vileplume with FoGP and go in to Sableye, your Opponent is forced to either answer with attacks or wait for something to give. The thing is that I look at all cards with the same sort of mentality, so while that set up is really great... how often are you really going to get it? Is there a way to actually win? Keep in mind that Sableye has to attack and he doesn't do any damage, etc etc. Then, I look at other cards, like Tapu Lele GX and Field Blower. How many decks will use these cards? A lot because they provide a way for the majority of decks to do "something" that is positive. So, keep in mind that I do support the idea. If anything, I would love to see it work because, quite frankly, it sounds mean if it does.
So, I hope this helps in some regard, whether realizing what problems need to be solved to make it work or realizing whether or not the combo is practical or whatever it may be. So long as something new is learned, I am personally satisfied.
-Asmer
I didn't realize the trainer was foil
I need these Sycamore. That artwork. Really hoping for the best of XY to hit the U.S.
No VS seeker wont survive rotation based on this box. Have you purchased any of these decks before? They're still from their original sets and not promos so theyre gonna rotate out as well. If the new sycamore and trainers mail are promos then they probably will stick around though.